Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #194

[shonyakay]

Yep.

It is important to distinguish these points about the two sketches:

• They are not the same person
• The person depicted in the originally released sketch is not presently a person of interest in this investigation

Multi-Agency Taskforce Clarifies Points about the Delphi Murder Suspect Sketches

My lingering question about the sketches… When they released the young man sketch, did they know that Richard Allen was the man in the old man sketch? Because if so, that would mean that they had known about his interview with the conservation officer and there wasn’t a misfiling or whatever they claimed. If they did not think that that sketch was Richard Allen, who did they think it was?

It makes more sense now. It appears people took this report at face value and determined that the first sketch was ruled out due to police knowing who this was and he was checked out. It doesn't appear that way to me though, just based on this alone.

LE at this time knew SC and BB had similar descriptions of BG and that they both believed BG on the video was the man they had seen.

As to why ISP released this....

Maybe it was a tactic to see what tips they could get using BB's sketch/descriptions since SC's sketch/descriptions had been used for 2 years up to that point.

 

[TTF14]

That's not what I meant I was referring to a coincidence. The defense would have you believe that Heathens committed this crime and the girls listened to and sang the song "Heathens" in the car on the way to the trails? Is that not a coincidence if you are pro defense/odinist involvement?

What evidence is there that the crime scene was staged to look like heathenism?

rsbm

A defense witness testified it was a "textbook ritual murder." The coincidence lies with the crime scene. IMO Not the defense saying it. What I mean is, they didn't pull that theory out of the blue. IMO Many people even tipped in the person we're probably not supposed to keep naming several times within the first few days, including the grandmother of one of the victims. The defense is going by what they received in the Discovery, not their wild imaginations, IMO.

MOO JMO

 

[tlcya]

FBI on "staging" back when seeking SW for RL property:

In citing reasons for the search warrant, the FBI agent noted that pieces of clothing from one of the victims were missing and that it "appeared the girls' bodies were moved and staged." There were no visible signs of a struggle or fight.
FBI agent believed clothing taken and bodies 'staged' in Delphi murders search warrant request

page 3, para. 6. of that SW states: It was also discovered that the [REDACTED} of one of the victim's was missing from the crime scene while the rest of their clothing was recovered. It also appeared the girls bodies were moved and staged.
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/LOGAN-WARRANT-final_Redacted.pdf

IMO DT took the "moved and staged" and twisted it into their first FM to suggest that -

Evidence found at the crime scene consisted of symbols in the form of runes made up of sticks and fashioned with tree branches, which defense attorneys said were obvious signatures left behind by Odinites.
Court docs reveal horrifying new claims in killing of 2 young girls in Delphi, Indiana

I'll continue to believe the FBI that the bodies were moved and staged while continuing to believe the DT has created a whole fantasy around those two words to mean the girls were victims of Odinists/Asatru/Heathens and the crime scene features symbols of said group.

I believe that the song Heathens was very popular at that time so I am not at all shocked by it being on the radio as they were on the drive to the park. I believe the fact that the DT later accused heathens of their murders is a coincidence. I feel strongly they took the moved and staged references and created the rest of their FM's around those words using very little besides inuendo that LE didn't do their jobs and were making their guy a patsy.

 

[shonyakay]

rsbm

A defense witness testified it was a "textbook ritual murder." The coincidence lies with the crime scene. IMO Not the defense saying it. What I mean is, they didn't pull that theory out of the blue. IMO Many people even tipped in the person we're probably not supposed to keep naming several times within the first few days, including the grandmother of one of the victims. The defense is going by what they received in the Discovery, not their wild imaginations, IMO.

MOO JMO

BH has an alibi.

What is RA's alibi besides placing himself on the trails from 1:30 to 3:30 p.m. according to DD's report?

Edited: I was mistaken about the time of the last movement of Libby's phone. It wasn't around 3:30 p.m. it was actually around 2:40 p.m.

I apologize guys. It was a mistake. I don't want to state anything but the truth.

 

[justtrish]

Yep.

It is important to distinguish these points about the two sketches:

• They are not the same person
• The person depicted in the originally released sketch is not presently a person of interest in this investigation

Multi-Agency Taskforce Clarifies Points about the Delphi Murder Suspect Sketches

My lingering question about the sketches… When they released the young man sketch, did they know that Richard Allen was the man in the old man sketch? Because if so, that would mean that they had known about his interview with the conservation officer and there wasn’t a misfiling or whatever they claimed. If they did not think that that sketch was Richard Allen, who did they think it was?

I do wonder if LE knew they had interviewed RA, but didn't know exactly who RA was because the tip was misfiled. If the first sketch looks more like BG and they wanted BG to think they were not looking at him as a suspect, then releasing a different sketch of someone younger and saying they are going in a different direction makes sense. Maybe they wanted RA to come back and talk to them, but they didn't want to flat out say, we know BG talked to us day 1 and we misfiled the tip so hey get back in touch with us.. that might have spooked RA.. but to say now we are looking for this younger looking guy as seen in sketch #2.. maybe they could get him to come forward and make him feel comfortable that they were not looking at him as the killer, but a witness.

Sketch 2 looks more like the photos in the AS account. Maybe they wanted other girls to come forward who had talked to this AS account. Maybe they wanted RA to tip in the AS account, if he was using it or communicating with girls using it, then maybe they thought he knew KK and since they couldn't quite link them, they wanted to see if they could flush out RA (who was still unknow exactly who he was since the tip was misfiled)

LE can use many tactics to try to get tips and often we aren't supposed to know exactly what they know or what tip they are looking for. I think the goal is to NOT share specifics so when a tip does come in that is credible it's because that person knows something and NOT because they shared that info with the public and now they have everyone tipping in publicly known info.

 

[sunshineray]

This is so true.

Does anyone else recall hearing at some point that the first sketch of BG is a man that LE are aware of and he has been checked out?

Sheriff Tobe did say in December 2018 DNA was dropped off at Quantico for "DNA testing research". Then in January 2019 a man, CE, was arrested for soliciting minors online. CE looked a lot like sketch #1 released. Then in April 2019 the PC where they're changing strategy/direction and a new (but old) sketch is released. I've always wondered if that DNA tested might just be partial but was enough to clear people, like CE, but nobody matched it...maybe until RA?

Break In Indiana Teens' Murder: Cops Give More Evidence To FBI In Hunt For Killer

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby told RadarOnline.com exclusively that they were hoping for a break in the case of Indiana teens Abigail Williams and Liberty German’s gruesome murders after they sent new evidence to the FBI headquarters in Quantico.

radaronline.com

Alleged Child Molester Draws FBI's Attention For Resemblance To Delphi Snapchat Killer

Police say the Indiana man was nabbed in an undercover sting for planning to have sex with a 13-year-old girl.

www.investigationdiscovery.com

 

[photographer4]

Burner phones, public computers, unsaved messaging. Layered anonymity complicated by apps that don't save content.

They may well have a good idea what might have happened but no BARD evidence to substantiate it.

I never like trials that end with lingering questions but they all do, relevant and irrelevant. No matter here. How ever he got ON the bridge, nothing gets him OFF it.

Can't help but wonder if RA had a dedicated phone or unchecked computer access (hello, coffee shop wifi; hello, shared phone/password; hello, work computer).

Regardless, he's on the bridge.

JMO

On the bridge yes. But how does he get from on the bridge to the other side, across the creek and kill two teens??? I hope the state can sort out clearly what they think happened here. Any waffling is going to be a problem for the jury imo.

 

[tlcya]

On the bridge yes. But how does he get from on the bridge to the other side, across the creek and kill two teens??? I hope the state can sort out clearly what they think happened here. Any waffling is going to be a problem for the jury imo.

the same way the girls' did IMO. Bipedally. Or maybe I am not understanding what you are wanting the state to explain . . .

 

[sunshineray]

I don't think that's the reason they are blaming the murders on Heathenism. It's because the crime scene was staged to look like Heathenism, IMO. The coincidence/what are the odds lies with the song and the crime scene staging.

IMO MOO

I'm still confused by what you're saying. The crime scene was staged by whom to look like Heathenism? The Odinists staged it to look like the Heathens did it? So there's two subcultures of Norse religions and one is framing the other?

 

[sunshineray]

Yep.

It is important to distinguish these points about the two sketches:

• They are not the same person
• The person depicted in the originally released sketch is not presently a person of interest in this investigation

Multi-Agency Taskforce Clarifies Points about the Delphi Murder Suspect Sketches

My lingering question about the sketches… When they released the young man sketch, did they know that Richard Allen was the man in the old man sketch? Because if so, that would mean that they had known about his interview with the conservation officer and there wasn’t a misfiling or whatever they claimed. If they did not think that that sketch was Richard Allen, who did they think it was?

I don't think that was it. I think LE said he may look younger than he really is in age. I think the YBG sketch, the features look very simular to RA's. JMO

 

[justtrish]

I'd say some of the interpretations in the many Frank's memos are definately the result of using wild imaginations.

If this was literally a random double murder and there was no runes being painted in blood, no girls being strung up from trees, no sticks being placed to look like horns or anything else.. just blood going where blood goes when someone is cut like the girls were, a man panicking and throwing some sticks on them and fleeing in a hurry. No ritual performed in the woods at 4am while searchers are looking for the girls, nobody worshipping Odin, just a lone killer removing 2 precious girls from this earth for his own sick and twisted gratification, then I wonder what the "expert" would say about that. RA is just that good at making this look like something else?

I do wonder what RA first thought when the defense proposed this wild theory. Imagine his surprise, if none of that is true..

 

[Megnut]

Actually, the final scene was created. Because both girls were murdered in locations different than where placed.

In following up on tips, LE did investigate whether it was done or staged by heathens, maybe particularly Odinism. Due diligence, work product, unconnected tangent.

The mark on the tree didn't happen in isolation. Based on the totality of the scene -- both visible and invisible blood patterns -- Libby herself left that blood. A dynamic event.

No rune.

Tree limbs and leaves to conceal --

No rune.

Likely no altar, no ring, no trample of underbrush to suggest a gathering.

Why those two girls? Why that day? Why that way? Why dragged and carried?

I expect we'll know more -- much more -- at trial.

It was important to the killer to bring them to one specific place (so important that he carried and dragged those precious, lifeless bodies, most certainly getting blood on himself). We may never know why. Meant something to him, perhaps so he could find it, see it, return to it, relive it.

We also don't know if he left because he was finished, satisfied. He may have had more in
in mind -- desecration, concealment, conflagration -- and was shooed away by early searchers searching.

He knows.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

On the bridge yes. But how does he get from on the bridge to the other side, across the creek and kill two teens??? I hope the state can sort out clearly what they think happened here. Any waffling is going to be a problem for the jury imo.

He marches them "down the hill" at gunpoint, crosses near the sandbar (for whatever reason) to the crime scene. Where's the waffling?

 

[steeltowngirl]

rsbm

A defense witness testified it was a "textbook ritual murder." The coincidence lies with the crime scene. IMO Not the defense saying it. What I mean is, they didn't pull that theory out of the blue. IMO Many people even tipped in the person we're probably not supposed to keep naming several times within the first few days, including the grandmother of one of the victims. The defense is going by what they received in the Discovery, not their wild imaginations, IMO.

MOO JMO

Per the article, the grandmother didn’t tip in BH. She provided information to investigators immediately after the murders, possibly before the BG photo was released. I’m certain she was asked many questions by LE. She told all she knew, about many people who may have known the girls. She didn’t finger BH.

jmo

 

[TTF14]

I'm still confused by what you're saying. The crime scene was staged by whom to look like Heathenism? The Odinists staged it to look like the Heathens did it? So there's two subcultures of Norse religions and one is framing the other?

No, I doubt that, but this case is so crazy I guess it's possible! I mean I think the perpetrator(s) tried to make it look like some kind of heathen/pagan/Norse thing to either simply throw off investigators and send them on a wild goose chase or maybe even frame someone specifically (like BH). I'd be totally inclined to think it was to do just that (throw investigators off and/or frame BH) if EF hadn't confessed to his sister. That, and other information that came out in the March 18th hearing, makes me still wonder if it was not staging to misdirect and/or frame, but that they actually did it.

How RA fits into all of that, I don't know. I think there are multiple perpetrators (IMO) so I also think there could have been multiple motives/connections between perps. IMO MOO

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

Per the article, the grandmother didn’t tip in BH. She provided information to investigators immediately after the murders, possibly before the BG photo was released. I’m certain she was asked many questions by LE. She told all she knew, about many people who may have known the girls. She didn’t finger BH.

jmo

Semantics. But, you're correct. The writer of this article did not use the phrase "tip in" or "finger." They chose different words to form their sentence.

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

He marches them "down the hill" at gunpoint, crosses near the sandbar (for whatever reason) to the crime scene. Where's the waffling?

Please provide a link saying he marched them across a sandbar.

 

[steeltowngirl]

At 3:30 in this drone video, a sandbar is clearly visible.
Only a possibility that they crossed there. But it’s there.

 

[tlcya]

At 3:30 in this drone video, a sandbar is clearly visible.
Only a possibility that they crossed there. But it’s there.

yes, if asked to SPECULATE as to the route RA may have used to direct the girls to where they were found, I would point to that sandbar as a convenient way to cross the creek without getting wet.

I recall when this case first broke, within 24 hours of the girls being found many members were mapping the area and discussed that sandbar and what it looked like at that time and whether it may have been used to get across the creek.

 

[sunshineray]

Please provide a link saying he marched them across a sandbar.

The area of the creek by where the girls were found fifty feet or so inland had a very noticable sandbar area. I said it was my opinion, MO