Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #194

[tlcya]

To me, MOO, that can be seen as just being a yes woman, getting a paycheck by doing what's expected, not necessarily what's warranted. It gives me doubts about her testimony and I believe others could also see it the same way. Again this is my opinion only.

Yes, what bothers me about Pelmutter's expert opinion on this case is that it was initially formed as a guest on court tv by looking at a diagram that depicts what is described in the DT's FM and its memo of support. Of course her opinion never wavered after finally seeing the actual evidence many months later when the offer of employment as DT's expert came up. Her area of expertise is ritualistic murders. She was shown diagrams of the DT's allegations that aligns with her area of expertise. When evidence was finally viewed by her, her confirmation bias ensured that she saw ritual sacrifice.

BTW has anyone seen any statistics as to how many ritualistic murders occur in the US annually? How about the last decade? The last two decades? I hope the state asked Ms. Perlmutter how many instances of ritual sacrifice have been proven as such, not just theorized, but proven.

Seems a very narrow field with not many instances to study

ALL OF THE ABOVE IS IMO JMO MOO.

 

[sunshineray]

The audacity to want to depose the State's witness, it would seem.

IMO MOO

But have they already done so? The defense seems to want to call people in for numerous depositions, again and again. I believe that's also waiting on the judge's ruling at the moment. IIRC the Prosecution is calling it harrassment?

 

[sunshineray]

No, he's the guy the defense wants to depose and the State filed to quash it. No ruling yet, and I think the deposition is supposed to be today.

View attachment 527284

Haven't already deposed him once?

 

[TTF14]

But have they already done so? The defense seems to want to call people in for numerous depositions, again and again. I believe that's also waiting on the judge's ruling at the moment. IIRC the Prosecution is calling it harrassment?

I believe the verbiage Nick used in his motion is a copy/paste and pretty antiquated.

Whether they've deposed this doctor already....no clue.

IMO MOO

 

[tlcya]

The audacity to want to depose the State's witness, it would seem.

IMO MOO

indeed, I agree - it is audacity - this wanting to waste taxpayer money deposing someone who may not even be allowed or needed to testify depending on the judge's ruling on their SODDI defense.

 

[TTF14]

Haven't already deposed him once?

No clue. But if they have, maybe they want to depose him on another topic. He seems to be an expert in runes AND jail intelligence (listing "information gathering through direct supervision" as one of his skills).

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

indeed, I agree - it is audacity - this wanting to waste taxpayer money deposing someone who may not even be allowed or needed to testify depending on the judge's ruling on their SODDI defense.

This family doctor is not part of the SODDI defense is she?

"Wasting taxpayer money" is part and parcel of criminal trials. Defendants are entitled to it.

IMO MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I've provided links and maps of the trails that show it ends, as well as the zoomed google map (from above) that shows it ends and is overgrown.

Sorry, those links will have to do. Or perhaps you have a photo of the end of the bridge that shows it is not overgrown and does not end (as was asserted earlier)?

MOO
I have several from GH vids but I'm not going searching for those links. Here is one where he shows the south end of the bridge. There was some overgrowth but not enough to make that route impassable.
You can see the path through the trees.

11:48 mm

Awsi Dooger was a member here who went to Delphi and posted pics; if you search his name, he has an album showing the south end. It was much nicer by then, though.

 

[tlcya]

This family doctor is not part of the SODDI defense is she?

"Wasting taxpayer money" is part and parcel of criminal trials. Defendants are entitled to it.

IMO MOO

correct, we do not know what the DT wants out of this family doctor or about whom, but the assumption that it is yet another witness they want to try to pursue their SODDI defense is a valid one in light of the other subpoenas that have been served by them during this time period is a valid one - again JMO

our opinions differ

 

[gremlin444]

Do we know why Dr. Fidler was subpoenaed? I can't remember.

I don't think we've heard of her until now. Greencastle is about a 90 min drive due south of Delphi. In 2018 she was doing her residency. From this article about her, it sounds like she has always practiced in the Greencastle area. Family Inspires Exceptional Care for Patients - Hendricks Regional Health - BeWell Blog

 

[tlcya]

08/27/2024

Response Filed Response to Defense's Memorandum.pdf Filed By: State of Indiana File Stamp: 08/26/2024

in addition to Dr. Fidlar's Motion to Quash subpoena this appeared on the docket today.

 

[mrjitty]

08/27/2024

Response Filed Response to Defense's Memorandum.pdf Filed By: State of Indiana File Stamp: 08/26/2024

in addition to Dr. Fidlar's Motion to Quash subpoena this appeared on the docket today.

So this seems to answer the question of why the Judge has not ruled on the motion in limine on alternative suspects

The parties were given time to make their 'closing' arguments in writing.

MOO

 

[tlcya]

So this seems to answer the question of why the Judge has not ruled on the motion in limine on alternative suspects

The parties were given time to make their 'closing' arguments in writing.

MOO

yep, that was how I took it. And now the state has responded, JG will review the motion and the response and issue a ruling.

 

[sunshineray]

Now I'm not sure what asphalt trail you're talking about. A map would probably help.

It seems to be a common assumption that those words were spoken as he approached them at the end of the bridge. However, that never made any sense to me because the trail doesn't end there.
If they had been on the path on the north side of the creek, I could understand why they thought the path ended.

Anna Williams said the girls themselves mentioned going on further off the bridge on the side they were at, IIRC, (Paraphrasing) Abby said something like, let's just just go and Libby responded, we can't the trail ends.

 

[sunshineray]

I've provided links and maps of the trails that show it ends, as well as the zoomed google map (from above) that shows it ends and is overgrown.

Sorry, those links will have to do. Or perhaps you have a photo of the end of the bridge that shows it is not overgrown and does not end (as was asserted earlier)?

Does that end of the bridge abut the M's property?

 

[Megnut]

Anna Williams said the girls themselves mentioned going on further off the bridge on the side they were at, IIRC, (Paraphrasing) Abby said something like, let's just just go and Libby responded, we can't the trail ends.

This underscores their inaugural fear. What about his approach, his speed, his expression and any encounter just prior led them to know they had to get away from him?

Is it the way he looked at them? Did he say something to them? Abby asking if he's behind her indicates an awareness of him prior...

Whatever that interaction was did they fear they were in trouble for being on the bridge? Did they know they were in bodily fear immediately? It just pains me that they were already apprehensive, looking for a way out, and it only got impossibly worse from there. Twenty minutes with a monster is forever...

Two young girls with their whole lives ahead of them.

Until he came up behind them.

JMO

 

[Willow Knight]

Do you think it's possible the girls ran across the creek to get away from BG and that is the area where they just ended up?

Where can I find the info that Abby was moved?

I do understand that Libby was dragged to the point she was found. (7 feet from the voluminous pools of her blood. Sorry for the graphic nature of that description.)

All my opinion.

My hope is since there is more to the video/audio that Libby took, that we could hear things like water splashing. May not be able to make out verbal directions, however possibly some environmental sounds.

Something like this as evidence should put weight to the theory the girls and killer walked down the hill, across the water, and were murdered where they were found.

Murdered by a cold, cold, evil, angry killer.

 

[sunshineray]

All my opinion.

My hope is since there is more to the video/audio that Libby took, that we could hear things like water splashing. May not be able to make out verbal directions, however possibly some environmental sounds.

Something like this as evidence should put weight to the theory the girls and killer walked down the hill, across the water, and were murdered where they were found.

Murdered by a cold, cold, evil, angry killer.

Caught on audio, a gun being noticed by the girls then the sound of it being cocked combined with BG's order, "Guys, down the hill" all seems to add up to the girls and BG going down the hill right there, where BG approached them. That would put them on the opposite side of the creek from the crime scene. Libby's shoe was found on that side. They had to get to the other side of the creek somehow. Wading across or running away, to cross close by that sandbar area makes the most sense to me. AJMO

 

[justtrish]

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

The PCA actually has good details about what is on Libby's video.

It shows Abby walking southeast (so toward the south end) and it shows a man in a dark coat and jeans walking behind her.

Then one of the girls mentions gun

The man is SEEN and heard telling them down the hill

They then proceed to head down the hill and then the video ends

So BG is not only seen behind Abby at the beginning of the video, but he is seen and heard when he's instructing them to go down the hill. I'd say maybe his face isn't visible then because he was so close to them that maybe where her phone was at only showed his body or midsection or something like that, but based on the timing LE can say it was the man approaching them that is then seen and heard telling them where to go and they go that way.

 

[Slawsb]

I didn't think either girls struggled?

From the search warrant for Ron Logan, bullet #7:
LG and AW had no visible signs of a struggle or fight".
Link to Search Warrant

I read a quote on here somewhere that Libby fought back...