Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

[statt#1]

She also said, IIRC, the medication helped him and he improved. She also thought RA was then not being truthful with her about his symptoms/condition.

And to add, unless I missed it, and certainly in my opinion, she did not indicate causation of this 'stress induced psychosis'. I propose it was a result of an inner guilt so heavy as to be near unbearable, and had little or nothing to do with the so called 'torturous' circumstances of his confinement.

 

[sunshineray]

And to add, unless I missed it, and certainly in my opinion, she did not indicate causation of this 'stress induced psychosis'. I propose it was a result of an inner guilt so heavy as to be near unbearable, and had little or nothing to do with the so called 'torturous' circumstances of his confinement.

Probably too the realization of personal doom after reading discovery and having his family cut off communication. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

How would they "provide a witness" before the trial has started?

Also, maybe nobody else was on the trails from 12-1:30. Absence of evidence (in this case an eye witness) is not evidence of absence (a witness).

IMO MOO

You don't think, if the defense had a witness ready to say they saw RA on the trails earlier than he originally told DD (and now match his revised times provided 6 years later after he's been arrested and charged), that the DT wouldn't have fit that nugget in one of their 4 FMs?

 

[TTF14]

You don't think, if the defense had a witness ready to say they saw RA on the trails earlier than he originally told DD (and now match his revised times provided 6 years later after he's been arrested and charged), that the DT wouldn't have fit that nugget in one of their 4 FMs?

No.

And to make this post long enough to be an actual answer, no, I don't think they would.

IMO MOO

 

[sunshineray]

The defense has a number of ex parte motions. Could be one of those, maybe. MOO

He has experts psychiatry and psychology.
Over $1 million has been spent on the Delphi murders trial; how much more will be spent?

I bet those experts will speak only in generalizations and not specifics concerning RA himself because they've not evaluated RA in person. That is of course just my opinion.

 

[sunshineray]

No.

And to make this post long enough to be an actual answer, no, I don't think they would.

IMO MOO

Why ever not? They certainly loaded the FMs with the SODDI stuff and claims of RA never being near the scene and could have changed RA's time line with a witness. It's not like it would be secret from the prosecution because the defense is tasked like they are with providing discovery to the opposing side.

 

[ClearAhead]

Probably too the realization of personal doom after reading discovery and having his family cut off communication. AJMO

And imagine the dismay of his court appointed attorneys when RA’s family told them about his confessions.

Did the wife and mother really not want to hear about it or was it under the direction of B&R why they did their best to shut him up.

If I was a juror I’d find it a bit troubling how they prevented that nature of conversation from occurring, whether they believed it or not as it could’ve provided evidence he truly was delusional. As it stands it sort of gives the impression they were shutting him down in an attempt to hide his guilt. MOO JMO

Did Richard Allen confess to killing two Delphi teens? Here's what we learned

Witnesses testified this week about Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen's statements and behavior following his arrest.

www.indystar.com

“As the confessions went on," he said, Allen's mother would tell him that "they're messing with you."

Allen's wife implored him to stop talking, Harshman said.”

 

[FrostedGlass]

Why ever not? They certainly loaded the FMs with the SODDI stuff and claims of RA never being near the scene and could have changed RA's time line with a witness. It's not like it would be secret from the prosecution because the defense is tasked like they are with providing discovery to the opposing side.

Because, MOO, they are keeping some discovery close to the vest, like the P is.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Did they have any sources to back up their opinion about this? Neither one of them are criminal defense attorneys (and one isn't an attorney at all) so I don't know how they'd know what was unconventional or not.

IMO MOO

Well, at 32;28 mark they quote from a tweet by championed defense attorney MA
-“they should have argued psychosis… the argument they did make was novel and relatively unconvincing”.

The Delphi Murders: The Confessions Are In
Edit: changed name of quoted attorney to initials TOS

 

[TTF14]

Well, at 32;28 mark they quote from a tweet by championed defense attorney Michael Ausbrook.
-“they should have argued psychosis… the argument they did make was novel and relatively unconvincing”.

The Delphi Murders: The Confessions Are In

Thank you. MA is a brilliant attorney. I appreciate it!

IMO MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

Because, MOO, they are keeping some discovery close to the vest, like the P is.

Hypothetically, how would this person know it was RA who he/she saw? And even though LE asked people to come forward who were on the trails that day, this hypothetical person didn’t, instead waited almost six years until he/she suddenly remembers about it after RA is arrested, then informs the defence? Very weak evidence at the 11th hour, I doubt it would help his case at all.

I don’t quite get the point of imagining evidence that might help RA. Is there a source the D has some kind of info? <modsnip>

 

[FrostedGlass]

Hypothetically, how would this person know it was RA who he/she saw? And even though LE asked people to come forward who were on the trails that day, this hypothetical person didn’t, instead waited almost six years until he/she suddenly remembers about it after RA is arrested, then informs the defence? Very weak evidence at the 11th hour, I doubt it would help his case at all.

I don’t quite get the point of imagining evidence that might help RA. Is there a source the D has some kind of info or is it simply speculation/rumour which WS TOS doesn’t allow to be discussed.

The question from sunshineray was: "...that the DT wouldn't have fit that nugget in one of their 4 FMs?"
My answer was "Because, MOO, they are keeping some discovery close to the vest, like the P is."

It's not my opinion that the P is holding tons of evidence close to the vest and the D has put all of theirs out on the table. I suspect there are a lot of things from both sides that we don't know about.

 

[ClearAhead]

The question from sunshineray was: "...that the DT wouldn't have fit that nugget in one of their 4 FMs?"
My answer was "Because, MOO, they are keeping some discovery close to the vest, like the P is."

It's not my opinion that the P is holding tons of evidence close to the vest and the D has put all of theirs out on the table. I suspect there are a lot of things from both sides that we don't know about.

Yes both sides are required to share discovery with each other. Indeed it’s true the P has not shared anything more than necessary with the general public. But in defending their client the D has no reason to keep anything close to the vest. If they have evidence they believe indisputably exonerates RS, it would be a display of utter incompetence to not file a Motion to Dismiss, as they did once before, rather than risking a conviction at trial.

IMO it’s like a chess match and they’ll soon be approaching a checkmate as it sure seems they’ve exhausted all their energy on the saga of the ‘evil white-supremist Odinists’ murdering two white teens. MOO

Judge again denies Delphi suspect Richard Allen's motion to dismiss

Special Judge Frances Gull says there's no evidence that prosecutors "acted in bad faith."

www.jconline.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

Hypothetically, how would this person know it was RA who he/she saw? And even though LE asked people to come forward who were on the trails that day, this hypothetical person didn’t, instead waited almost six years until he/she suddenly remembers about it after RA is arrested, then informs the defence? Very weak evidence at the 11th hour, I doubt it would help his case at all.

I don’t quite get the point of imagining evidence that might help RA. Is there a source the D has some kind of info? <modsnip>

I don't have any hypothetical person in mind. The odd IMO end to the last hearing is basis for speculation; plus learning about the genetic genealogy testing opens up more questions.

Discovery is still coming in; why do you think there is nothing left that might be beneficial to RA?

Actually, I'm still stuck at the beginning. If no one saw RA's vehicle at the old building after 2:30 pm, how is the P going to prove the timeline? Then there is the time of death issue. I sure hope they can pinpoint it to 3:45 or earlier.

 

[ClearAhead]

I don't have any hypothetical person in mind. The odd IMO end to the last hearing is basis for speculation; plus learning about the genetic genealogy testing opens up more questions.

Discovery is still coming in; why do you think there is nothing left that might be beneficial to RA?

Actually, I'm still stuck at the beginning. If no one saw RA's vehicle at the old building after 2:30 pm, how is the P going to prove the timeline? Then there is the time of death issue. I sure hope they can pinpoint it to 3:45 or earlier.

Why would you think genetic genealogy might be favourable to the defense?

Very possibly it implicates RA. If so how’s he going to argue he wasn’t there when the murders took place?

I thought a car similar to RA’s Ford Focus was sighted on CCTV going past the Hoosier Harvestore just before 1:30pm? That begins the timeline iirc.

 

[TTF14]

Why would you think genetic genealogy might be favourable to the defense?

If the DNA analyzed through genetic genealogy doesn't match RA or anyone in his family/familial lines, do you think he should be exonerated?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Why would you think genetic genealogy might be favourable to the defense?

Very possibly it implicates RA. If so how’s he going to argue he wasn’t there when the murders took place?

I thought a car similar to RA’s Ford Focus was sighted on CCTV going past the Hoosier Harvestore just before 1:30pm? That begins the timeline iirc.

I know next to nothing about that kind of testing. I'm looking for information detailing why gg was used. The amount of money they spent indicates to me that there was more than one person tested. Why? They charged RA with the murders; surely he was the very first one tested.

Yes, a vehicle similar to RA's was seen passing the HHS cam. The timeline needs an ending, too.
MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

If the DNA analyzed through genetic genealogy doesn't match RA or anyone in his family/familial lines, do you think he should be exonerated?

It depends where the DNA was found. KG stated she had those spare hoodies in the trunk of her car that she lent to people if they needed them, which the girls wore that day. Imagine all the DNA they might’ve contained.

 

[ClearAhead]

I know next to nothing about that kind of testing. I'm looking for information detailing why gg was used. The amount of money they spent indicates to me that there was more than one person tested. Why? They charged RA with the murders; surely he was the very first one tested.

Yes, a vehicle similar to RA's was seen passing the HHS cam. The timeline needs an ending, too.
MOO

The gg may’ve been expensed long before RA’s arrest. It was an expense by LE related to the Delphi murder case, not RAs arrest. There would be no need to have RA tested for genetic genealogy once he was arrested since he was right there. Gg is when a suspect to a crime is unknown but their DNA is traced through their ancestry, such as the Golden Gate killer.

Over $1 million has been spent on the Delphi murders trial; how much more will be spent?

Of the $1 million spent so far, $581,605 is considered expenses for Richard Allen’s defense.

www.wthr.com

Indiana State Police is also tracking its spending on the Delphi murders case.
ISP told 13News it has recorded $330,223 in costs since Williams and German were murdered in 2017. Those costs include:

• $264,110 in overtime costs for investigators
• $22,848 for investigator lodging
• $9,178 for a leased office for investigators
• $5,511 for investigator meals
• $8,576 in miscellaneous supplies
• $20,000 for genetic genealogy

 

[susiQ]

I don’t quite get the point of imagining evidence that might help RA. Is there a source the D has some kind of info?

RSBM
And, some of us don’t quite get “imagining” that the P has some bombshell that will allow them to reach BARD. Is there a source that the P has some bombshell evidence they are going to spring on us at trial? It is repeated often here on these threads.

The truth is, we’re all here speculating on what we do know. The rest we must patiently wait for . MOO