Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

[sunshineray]

DBM

 

[iamshadow21]

It's possible that he put the tan/beige/hoodie over the blue jacket when he left the scene of the crime.

Yep, this.

We know he was wearing layers, changing up the order they were in was the fastest way to change appearance without leaving a piece of clothing behind for investigators to get hold of.

It's been solidly theorised that the layer under the jacket is a brown hoodie. I remember going through whole threads of people trying to work out which brands or stores had brown hoodies in their lines of apparel.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I wonder if they will go really hard at trying to discredit the witness testimony and even harder at trying to discredit the investigators and their 'faulty' investigation. It's all they really have right now.

They can try to discredit the confessions but that could be difficult because if they try and make the client out to be psychotic and mentally ill, then could the jurors think he was crazy enough to commit this crime?

No indications IMO that RA was crazy on 2/13/2017, which will be when the jury will be focused time wise IMO.

RA appeared like your everyday, ordinary, middle aged man, consistently holding down a job, having a family, owning a paid for home, interacting down at the local pub in pool tournaments, traveling, etc.

Just an evilness. I think we will see some evidence of CSAM or related conduct come out at trial.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

It's possible that he put the tan/beige/hoodie over the blue jacket when he left the scene of the crime.

The search warrant states = specifically to search for blue sweatshirts/jackets, black sweatshirts/jackets. Remember... there are conflicting statements regarding what SC said she saw. MOO

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

 

[girlhasnoname]

No Alford plea in Indiana.

Nope no Alford, but R&B could still try and pull the ole' insanity defense right?

(c) When notice of an insanity defense is filed in a case in which the defendant is charged with a homicide offense under IC 35-42-1, the court shall appoint two (2) or three (3) competent disinterested:
(1) psychiatrists;
(2) psychologists endorsed by the state psychology board as health service providers in psychology; or
(3) physicians;
who have expertise in determining insanity. At least one (1) individual appointed under this subsection must be a psychiatrist and at least one (1) individual appointed under this subsection must be a psychologist. The individuals appointed under this subsection shall examine the defendant and testify at the trial. This testimony must follow the presentation of the evidence for the prosecution and for the defense, including the testimony of any mental health experts employed by the state or by the defense.

https://codes.findlaw.com/in/title-...e providers in psychology; or (3) physicians;

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

It will be so frustrating if they use this to now delay the trial. They should have been preparing for this considering they have absolutely no evidence of any other suspects being on the bridge or in the vicinity.

moo

This Defense is nothing if not frustrating and I fully expect a continuance.

MOO

 

[maamager]

the sheer volume of how many times RA confessed and his wife's initial reaction disturbed me. all the sworn testimonies of those who reviewed these confessions state that they weren't incoherent mumblings, but out of religious conviction. it was only after he viewed the response of his wife hanging up the phone that he realized he could no longer control the narrative.

see the quote above from DC and that 2019 presser. bbm -

"Directly to the Killer, who may be in this room: We believe you were hiding in plain sight. For more than 2 years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy. But we have. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know. And one day, you will. A question to you: What will those closest to you think of you when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls? Two children! Only a coward would do such a thing. We are confident that you have told someone what you have done, or at the very least they know because of how different you are since the murders." ​

plea dealing incoming

My hubby also has jackets from way back and even duplicate ones never worn. I could see RA, after committing a double murder, burning his clothes and just getting another jacket, same brand/style. Or start wearing a matching one he's had, that's just been hanging in the closet. Always a possibility too. MO

yup, and plenty of time to get rid of anything. sorry, using this as a jumping off point -

what's more, RA essentially describes BG's outfit as something similar to what he wore before the DTH video was released IIRC (video was released on the 15th - see link here). no one (including RA) saw another man matching BG's description with the clothes RA describes himself. so the timeline goes -

RA got there 13:30
RA got to bridge at 13:50
Witness parked at 13:45
Witness got to the bridge at 13:53

i do not think that 2017 interview would have happened had RA known that the video would come out. i'd like to imagine that when the DTH video was released, he almost fainted, even though it took years to get to this point. the puzzle pieces just needed to fall in place.

 

[iamshadow21]

Nope no Alford, but R&B could still try and pull the ole' insanity defense right?

(c) When notice of an insanity defense is filed in a case in which the defendant is charged with a homicide offense under IC 35-42-1, the court shall appoint two (2) or three (3) competent disinterested:
(1) psychiatrists;
(2) psychologists endorsed by the state psychology board as health service providers in psychology; or
(3) physicians;
who have expertise in determining insanity. At least one (1) individual appointed under this subsection must be a psychiatrist and at least one (1) individual appointed under this subsection must be a psychologist. The individuals appointed under this subsection shall examine the defendant and testify at the trial. This testimony must follow the presentation of the evidence for the prosecution and for the defense, including the testimony of any mental health experts employed by the state or by the defense.

https://codes.findlaw.com/in/title-35-criminal-law-and-procedure/in-code-sect-35-36-2-2/#:~:text=(c) When notice of an insanity defense is,health service providers in psychology; or (3) physicians;

MOO

I honestly don't know why RA's team haven't made a move towards this kind of defense. Even with all their multiple motions talking about RA's mental state, they have never so much as asked for a competency assessment. Why? Is this something they don't think would succeed, or is RA himself refusing to allow them to go in that direction? We've seen that before with other defendants in homicide cases. Just the suggestion seems to infuriate them, even in cases where it seems a convincing argument could be made for some form of diminished responsibility.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Is it at all possible that the Defense team could ask to be removed?
Can they step down?

I don't think that will happen this far along in the case and their fighting all the way to the SCOIN to be reinstated. I don't discount any underhanded last minute shenanigans by them though.

I bet they have an alternate theory already in the works.

JMO

EBM: Spelling

 

[FrostedGlass]

IMO there is something special about this jacket that sets it apart from all the others. I think it has a tear in it and left fibers behind.

32:34 mm
I know a lot of blue jackets have been turned into law enforcement
they tell me they don't have the jacket but they've had a lot of people turn in blue jackets

 

[girlhasnoname]

Interesting, Nothing after October last year on RA's mental condition made that chart? I guess all his time spent in Wabash Correctional was uneventful?

Actually S & L (temp D) filed a Motion to have him transferred from Wabash as well. Seems like RA had problems no matter where he was being housed, which to me, works in the State's favor.

<Snipped & BBM>

RS and WL, the two new court-appointed attorneys for Richard Allen, are asking the state of Indiana to transfer Allen after claiming that Allen is not being treated the same as other prisoners and that his current location at the Wabash Valley Correctional Facility impacts their ability to represent him in court.

https://fox59.com/news/indycrime/ri...istreatment-asks-for-move-from-wabash-valley/

MOO

 

[justtrish]

True, but we do know that KAK were both fully investigated to the hilt and if there was any evidence wither father or slimy son had actually been at the crime scene they'd have found it by now. IMO

It's my opinion if there any connection, it isn't an in person connection. I don't think anyone else was in the woods that day besides RA and Abby and Libby. I think if RA had any connection to KAK at any point it was online and maybe not even a connection where they knew each other by name. It could be some link where RA just had access to whatever awful CSAM stuff KAK was dealing in.

I think the reason KAK and his father are not allowed in is because they found no connection to the crime scene.. no proof of any kind that either of them was in Delphi that day or on RL's property.

I'd say it doesn't help the defense either if they try to make a connection because I don't think KAK or his dad being connected would then exclude their client RA. I bet they just proceeded with caution on that angle so not to open the door too much because if there is an online connection whereby RA learned the girls would be there because of something KAK was doing online, then that wouldn't rule out their client and it would help the state.

 

[TTF14]

Oh, they can present a defense, They just can't present that false one anymore.

The fact that one fallible (like all of us) human being can decide that the third party evidence is false, based solely on opinion, and not let a jury of his peers consider it and decide it (like our justice system is supposed to be), makes me terrified. This is not only about this case and this is not just my take on it (myriad attorneys out there agree with me). JMO MOO IMO

Furthermore, the fact that geofence data (digital EVIDENCE) is being quashed on the DEFENSE side, and the quasi-science of bullet markings on an unspent round on the STATE side, is also terrifying. When one person has the power to decide the outcome of a trial before it even starts and not let a jury decide what THEY think is true....there just is no hope for our justice system, in my opinion. At least not in the state of Indiana.

This is verbiage taken directly from a jury charge, and I have looked at five others and they are very similar. JMO IMO MOO You are the exclusive judges of the facts proved, of the credibility of the witnesses and of the weight to be given to their testimony.

RA's jury has had this power taken away from them before the trial has even started.

JMO MOO IMO

 

[Megnut]

Yep, this.

We know he was wearing layers, changing up the order they were in was the fastest way to change appearance without leaving a piece of clothing behind for investigators to get hold of.

It's been solidly theorised that the layer under the jacket is a brown hoodie. I remember going through whole threads of people trying to work out which brands or stores had brown hoodies in their lines of apparel.

MOO

I wonder if the jacket didn't have a light-colored lining and he just reversed it. Possibly even a reversible jacket.

I'm more interested in the witness. If she thought he looked like he'd been in a fight, what gave her that impression? One thing? A combination of things? Muddy. Did she see blood? What else would indicate a fight? To me, holding a cloth to one's face. In the case of a gash or broken nose. If it was something like that, he was holding his face as if injured, he was actually trying to COVER his face? Another indication of injury/fight, perhaps he was walking with a limp. Does he have an unusual gait? Often theorized from the released clip from the bridge. We only have a snippet of her interview/description. It could be quite telling, what she saw. Blood/mud might be hard to distinguish from a distance so maybe, combined with how he carried himself, lended to her impression.

JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

Yup, there’s no denying the physical similarity. It’s a tough road ahead - for the defense.

It would shock me if during the trial we don’t hear from a FBI mathematical computer guru who has taken a deep dive into that photo to determine the height of the man. From the markings on the wooden board, GH was able to determine where Libby stood when she took the video. It is known precisely how long and wide each plank is so a there’s no reason that comparison data can’t be applied to generate the height of the man that is very close to accurate.

Maybe it was? Maybe LE have always known the man was only 5’4” to 5’7” but used it as holdback information to avoid being swamped with useless tips naming every short guy in the country. That information could’ve still proven valuable in eliminating leads involving taller guys,

and then that lost tip involving RA came to light. He fit perfectly.

MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

I highly doubt he only owned one blue jacket in 5 years. So when he was arrested he had a blue jacket it doesn’t mean that’s the one from 5 and a half years ago.

IMO

IF he read here on WS (Idk of course), he had many suggestions from WSers, what jacket he would have to buy instead of the old one and what jacket would be similar enough.

 

[TTF14]

It would shock me if during the trial we don’t hear from a FBI mathematical computer guru who has taken a deep dive into that photo to determine the height of the man.

I will be absolutely shocked if the State does that.

 

[FromGermany1]

I wonder if the jacket didn't have a light-colored lining and he just reversed it. Possibly even a reversible jacket.

I'm more interested in the witness. If she thought he looked like he'd been in a fight, what gave her that impression? One thing? A combination of things? Muddy. Did she see blood? What else would indicate a fight? To me, holding a cloth to one's face. In the case of a gash or broken nose. If it was something like that, he was holding his face as if injured, he was actually trying to COVER his face? Another indication of injury/fight, perhaps he was walking with a limp. Does he have an unusual gait? Often theorized from the released clip from the bridge. We only have a snippet of her interview/description. It could be quite telling, what she saw. Blood/mud might be hard to distinguish from a distance so maybe, combined with how he carried himself, lended to her impression.

JMO

So much water from Deer Creek and nothing to wash himself. Poor guy.

 

[sunshineray]

I honestly don't know why RA's team haven't made a move towards this kind of defense. Even with all their multiple motions talking about RA's mental state, they have never so much as asked for a competency assessment. Why? Is this something they don't think would succeed, or is RA himself refusing to allow them to go in that direction? We've seen that before with other defendants in homicide cases. Just the suggestion seems to infuriate them, even in cases where it seems a convincing argument could be made for some form of diminished responsibility.

MOO

It's seems maybe the problem is they never had their client independently evaluated. So they have Dr. W, at the prison, who while having empathy for RA's suposed psychosis, has also said she felt he wasn't being honest with her about his condition...and she may be the ears that heard one of RA's most damning confessions, possibly with details. A most turbulent witness, on both sides. JMO

 

[FromGermany1]

That is a possibility.

However, I don't believe that he targeted them prior to seeing them pass by him on the trail on the way to the bridge. I believe any girls/women that he felt like he could control would have been the victim(s) that day. IMO. Sadly it just happened to be Libby and Abby.

Carter said, "We know this is about power to you."

Side note: I am still trying to locate the info that the FBI did not want LE to do that presser in 2019. I am in the process of listening to hours of audio again about the hearings to locate it. If anyone finds it before I do please post it. Thanks.

IF he molested young girls before, as he said sometime, he wouldn't have taken another, older victim than he did, IMO.
Btw: There were around 50 people at the MHB area that day, afaik. How many of them entered the High Bridge? I think, not many. And RA's plan included, so it seems, the entering of MHB by his future victims. So Abby and Libby were targeted hours before, I believe. MOO