Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

[girlhasnoname]

Wasn't there also mention in Dr W's testimony that RA was discussing with her how he tried to confess to his family members and they wouldn't listen and now they wouldn't take his call? She let him use her phone (I had gathered so they'd pick up the phone) and RA asked her to stay and listen while he talked to them? I don't have Dr. W's testimony transcript link, does anyone?

I don't think it was Dr. W's personal phone was it? I thought it was a phone from another office from where they were meeting because she had to dial the number for him. The first time his wife hung up on RA and the second time RA insisted she stay and listen.

That's how I remember it, but I could very well be wrong.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

This is a good read, IMO

Psychiatric Effects of Solitary Confinement
The author, Dr. Grassian, is a Board Certified Psychiatrist who was on the faculty of the Harvard Medical School for over twenty-five years.

https://journals.library.wustl.edu/lawpolicy/article/843/galley/17678/view/

 

[ClearAhead]

Perfectly sane people kill every day for any number of reasons.

Mentally ill people are more likely to be victims of violent crimes than commit them.

You can certainly call all murderers depraved, cruel, callous, or sadistic, but you can't collectively call them mentally ill.

MOO

RA’s mental health issues are not proof that he was not the murderer of Libby and Abby.

 

[mrjitty]

She did talk about scheduling a hearing and then went on to say the D had withdrawn prior to scheduling an Oct. 31 date. However, that's when S&L came on. I don't have that transcript for that date.
We know she offered to set a hearing for S&L, which they had not asked for by the time the B&R were re-instated. On 1/22/24, a few days after B&R were re-instated, she denied the defendant's motion for a Franks hearing.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

08C01-2210-MR-000001
23S-OR-00311

I think you are over reading it a bit

At the time B&R were booted, she had not yet watched all the videos and read all the exhibits - it was hours of footage and 1000s of pages IIRC. So I personally don't believe at that point she had decided at that time that the threshold for a hearing had been met. Then IMO with S&L, she was simply spoke the same way about a hearing, should they adopt the Franks or file their own. But they never filed anything.

Then by the time B&R were back, IMO she had digested all the material and ruled that the threshold was not met.

I guess it's possible in another world, where the CS photo leak doesn't happen, she might have given them the benefit of the doubt and held a hearing but i do believe she simply covered all the filings in the interim and found no false statement.

Otherwise we are being asked to believe she is concealing a false statement/misrepresentation by Ligget - I feel that is quite unlikely. Why? And if she is, it will be revealed at trial.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

RA’s mental health issues are not proof that he was not the murderer of Libby and Abby.

I agree.

That's not what I was responding to. I was responding to the assertion that all murders have severe mental health issues as a factor.

MOO

 

[TTF14]

“Maybe” doesn’t always signify confusion regarding facts. It often expresses that a concession is reluctant, grudging, painful.

Had I knowingly, willfully cut AW’s throat, I would not be unsure of what I had done. I would certainly be deeply ashamed and paranoid with fear. It would be hard to acknowledge.

The word "maybe" could also be used by someone who had been so beaten down (figuratively), emotionally/mentally tortured, that they started to actually believe that "maybe" they actually did do it. Not knowing what's even real anymore. IMO MOOOOOOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Indeed, Harshman testifed that he found God on 21 March. Allen then received discovery on 3 April, then began confessing to other staff and behaving off on 4 April (per Dr Wala's sworn testimony).

I posted in here earlier today already (Post 757), and again, a link to Dr. Wala's testimony too that came from her under oath:



Sworn testimony ... covered by MSM sources.

Indiana State Police investigator says Richard Allen confessed 61 times to Delphi murders

The man accused of killing two Delphi teenagers has confessed more than 60 times to committing the murders, according to an Indiana State Police detective assigned to the case.

www.21alivenews.com

Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #195

Wouldn’t this be excuses RA’s defense should’ve been presenting to the court if they had any merit? As the D didn’t, neither disclosure nor medications were a suspected cause for his confessions. (Of note, only mention of anything significant preceding his confessions was he had found...

www.websleuths.com

How convenient is it that the psychosis and poo eating starts after he sees what he's accused of in black & white?

I believe once RA saw it with his own eyes, he knew then that it was all over for him. No more CVS, no more home, wife, family or life outside of prison walls.

He certainly had more life than Abby and Libby were afforded so I feel no sympathy for RA, whom I consider guilty BARD. I only want Justice now for their brutal murders, their loved ones, and the community of Delphi.

JMO

 

[MollyDDD]

There may have been some erosion, especially down by the creek's banks, but wasn't it described as a berm area on two sides with the crime scene situated in a kind of bowl area in between?

More proof, IMO that whoever committed this crime, planned and knew where he was going.

 

[ClearAhead]

I agree.

That's not what I was responding to. I was responding to the assertion that all murders have severe mental health issues as a factor.

MOO

Okay, well it is my opinion that anyone who takes the life of another is not thinking straight but I don’t want this thread to stray off topic. MDD can cause anger and lack of control. His D even dared to acknowledge his mental illness as a reason he shouldn’t have been held in “solitary confinement” for more than 30 days.

 

[photographer4]

If Harshman had said RA used the words ‘definitely killed’ Abby, some people would say he was embellishing or misunderstanding. If RA was captured on audio, or in his own writing, using the word ‘definitely’, some people would say it was due to his psychotic break from prison torture.

Yet, here we are, searching for the word ‘maybe’. Interpretation of RA’s admissions seem to only become meaningful when they favor defense theories.

jmo

I kinda think it is wise to err on the side of caution here regarding these "admissions" or "confessions" or "incriminating statements" given how very little we know about them overall. We don't know what specific words he even used, or in what exact context. For now, we're expected to simply take the word of various staff members at the corrections facility - which is ok, but not super meaningful yet in my view (moooooo). RA probably did say the things staff says he did - but I'd rather hear / see him say these things to know for sure what he said, when, to whom, context, body language and other circumstances that may have been at play (eg: medications or lack thereof? Mental health status generally at the time?) etc etc.... I think all we got in the three day hearings was just a snippet of info - without real meat attached (yet). Looking forward to the trial to learn hopefully a lot more!

 

[tlcya]

The Psychology of Confessions

People make confessions in front of God, priests in the temple or judges and lawyers in the court for the sin they committed.

www.psychologs.com

 

[photographer4]

How convenient is it that the psychosis and poo eating starts after he sees what he's accused of in black & white?

I believe once RA saw it with his own eyes, he knew then that it was all over for him. No more CVS, no more home, wife, family or life outside of prison walls.

He certainly had more life than Abby and Libby were afforded so I feel no sympathy for RA, whom I consider guilty BARD. I only want Justice now for their brutal murders, their loved ones, and the community of Delphi.

JMO

Or... playing devil's advocate here... because we can't really know why he did that...maybe he read what happened / saw evidence photos and had a mental breakdown due to vicarious trauma? Maybe he felt hopeless and in a deluded state thought that he HAD done, must have done - the things the state has accused him of. He wouldn't be the first and I"m sure he won't be the last to make "confessions" while awaiting trial - just look at the innocence project to know how often it reportedly has happened in various cases that lead to convictions. False Confessions

It is hard to know which way to lean on this (for me) given we know nothing about the statements he made aside he made them and his family wasn't happy about it.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I can only speak for myself.

Because of all the exonerations coming out of Indiana, I would hope that everyone would put this case under a microscope.

Everything we've heard in this 3 day transcript is from the prosecution's side. I'll have to wait to hear from the defense. Too bad that I won't be able to hear it all. Oh, wait... I'm probably not going to hear any of it because it probably won't be streamed. I'll only get to hear what the judge, prosecution and MSM want me to hear.

The judge was willing to set a hearing for S&L. I believe there is evidence in it.

(Snip)
If defendant's new counsel inform the Court they intend to pursue the Franks Motion, the Court will schedule a hearing.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

08C01-2210-MR-000001
11/14/2023

We have all heard nothing but the defense’s take on things for almost a year. The hearings were the only time the prosecution has been able to present their side, through sworn testimony, because they respected the gag order.
My point is, you have already heard the defense side, it has been proven and admitted to, to being fantasy. Everything dismantled piece by piece. The emperor has no clothes.

 

[tlcya]

SBM tlcya for focus
The emperor has no clothes.

this right here. Finally the court has ruled what many have seen for a while.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I think you are over reading it a bit

At the time B&R were booted, she had not yet watched all the videos and read all the exhibits - it was hours of footage and 1000s of pages IIRC. So I personally don't believe at that point she had decided at that time that the threshold for a hearing had been met. Then IMO with S&L, she was simply spoke the same way about a hearing, should they adopt the Franks or file their own. But they never filed anything.

Then by the time B&R were back, IMO she had digested all the material and ruled that the threshold was not met.

I guess it's possible in another world, where the CS photo leak doesn't happen, she might have given them the benefit of the doubt and held a hearing but i do believe she simply covered all the filings in the interim and found no false statement.

Otherwise we are being asked to believe she is concealing a false statement/misrepresentation by Ligget - I feel that is quite unlikely. Why? And if she is, it will be revealed at trial.

MOO

IMO If she had handed down her order to deny the hearing any time prior to the Ds return, I would not have given it a second thought.

The fact that the Indiana Supreme Court order was received by the lower court on Friday Jan. 19 and she denied the hearing on the next business day, Mon Jan 22, made me "over think" (your words) the issue.

I knew I had heard the following and finally found the source.
CourtTV interview with BMac regarding her interview with Labrato: They were also preparing a Franks Memo for a Franks hearing alleging that there were problems with the information that was used to obtain the search warrant for Richard Allen's home.
5:50mm

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=739579024809854

 

[justtrish]

The hearing went exactly how it should have went. The state it trying to release very little ahead of this trial and it seems that is the exact opposite of what the defense was trying to do. I find it interesting the defense didn't include any of the 60+ factual confessions in their many pages and pages of filings. They included a few things that turned out to be something an inmate said to RA not something RA said in a "confession".. he never said he shot the girls in the back, but yet that showed up in a defense filing trying to paint all his confessions as false and ridiculous so the court would throw them all out. That wasn't even a statement RA made. Funny how they didn't include any of the statements to his wife or mother.. none of the ones he made that the detective testified to that were all consistent with the crime. This is one of the reasons many of us don't find the defense claims as factual at all because too many of the things they have claimed as fact are now shown to be untrue.

What we should have gotten in the 3 day hearing was any FACTS the defense had to show any of their 3rd party people could have even been in Delphi on Feb 13th, 2017 and we got nothing. ZERO.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

This is a good read, IMO

Psychiatric Effects of Solitary Confinement
The author, Dr. Grassian, is a Board Certified Psychiatrist who was on the faculty of the Harvard Medical School for over twenty-five years.

https://journals.library.wustl.edu/lawpolicy/article/843/galley/17678/view/

Debatable I think right now whether RA was in solitary confinement, but let’s not quibble.
It’s amazing that the harsh conditions of prison life could cause someone to confess falsely with details of a crime that only the perpetrator would know.

 

[sunshineray]

I was looking for the exact wording @iamshadow21 posted, which includes the word "maybe." I wanted to read the context. It's impossible to know, though, from this transcript whether Harshman meant "RA maybe said...." or "RA said 'maybe'..."

We'll have to wait for trial.

IMO MOO

Yes but I was just saying the guard saying/noting that RA apologized for killing Abby sounds like neither a "maybe" nor a "might". MO
Can't wait to hear what RA said, his own words, his own voice. I do hope we get to, at some point, hear the recordings.

 

[TTF14]

Debatable I think right now whether RA was in solitary confinement, but let’s not quibble.
It’s amazing that the harsh conditions of prison life could cause someone to confess falsely with details of a crime that only the perpetrator would know.

Regarding your bolded statement.....I have not heard anything, from anyone, that convinces me this is true. Especially not before he received the Discovery and/or heard others (i.e. the guards who copied all of the Discovery) discussing it around him or directly TO him. This is my opinion. I believe he was placed here he was, treated as he was, for the sole purpose of trying to get a confession out of him. Opinion.

IMO MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

IMO If she had handed down her order to deny the hearing any time prior to the Ds return, I would not have given it a second thought.

The fact that the Indiana Supreme Court order was received by the lower court on Friday Jan. 19 and she denied the hearing on the next business day, Mon Jan 22, made me "over think" (your words) the issue.

I knew I had heard the following and finally found the source.
CourtTV interview with BMac regarding her interview with Labrato: They were also preparing a Franks Memo for a Franks hearing alleging that there were problems with the information that was used to obtain the search warrant for Richard Allen's home.
5:50mm

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=739579024809854

I think you know a Franks Hearing is not automatically granted by a Judge simply by the defense requesting one be held in a written motion? This topic has been hashed to death.

The D must first prove the allegations that LE lied when obtaining the search warrant, during a hearing if required. She may have decided to not hold one based on B&R’s motion. Regardless JG disagreed a Franks Hearing was warranted and denied the motion. Just because she might’ve held a hearing for L&S to present their arguments for a Frank’s Hearing doesn't obligate her to hold one for B&R. JMO