Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #196

[girlhasnoname]

A month from now we will be in the midst of a jury trial supposedly. I hope beyond hope that is happens on schedule. This case has been going on far too long for all involved. LE, families of the victims, the town of Delphi. I do feel for these jurors, it will be a tough case on them emotionally and being sequestered that long.

We need a fair and impartial jury to decide the fate of RA based on factual evidence presented to a jury of his peers. I am confident in RA's guilt, but will accept the verdict either way reached by a jury as painful as it would be to see him found NG. A mistrial would be a travesty IMO.

Let the memories of Libby & Abby finally rest in Peace and the SM's vile hate and spewing stop. Hopefully the families can begin to take steps in healing. This has been a horrific and emotional crime, with no chance at resolution or recovery until the trial is over and a verdict reached.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I’m not sure what he’s expected to admit to ‘knowing’. How can he know if or when a kidnapping took place as he wasn’t there? This was only a hearing and he was there to testify about the cellphone data. Later during the trial it will be up to the prosecution to present a theory to the jury, linking all the facts together to demonstrate why RA is guilty of the murders. State witnesses generally do not take the witness stand and testify even during a trial, one after another about what they ‘believe’ or think they know. Those are opinions, not facts. The jury will be instructed to only consider ‘the facts’. JMO

Yes and the jury will be instructed to use their reason, their collective reasoning.

 

[sunshineray]

I thought it might be useful to actually revisit what happened to Abby and Libby on the Monon High Bridge by the legal terms of what RA is charge with doing. Kidnapping.

BBM

"Allen is charged with two counts of murder and two counts of murder in the commission of kidnapping."

Delphi murder suspect's public hearing canceled; officials speak privately with relatives

New filings ask for subpoenas to be thrown out, question therapist's actions in the case.

www.jconline.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

I thought it might be useful to actually revisit what happened to Abby and Libby on the Monon High Bridge by the legal terms of what RA is charge with doing. Kidnapping.

BBM

"Allen is charged with two counts of murder and two counts of murder in the commission of kidnapping."

Delphi murder suspect's public hearing canceled; officials speak privately with relatives

New filings ask for subpoenas to be thrown out, question therapist's actions in the case.

www.jconline.com

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

08C01-2210-MR-000001

Charges​

Hide all charge details

	01	02/13/2017	35-42-1-1(2): Murder
	Statute 35-42-1-1(2) Degree MR
	02	02/13/2017	35-42-1-1(2): Murder
	Statute 35-42-1-1(2) Degree MR
	03	02/13/2017	35-42-1-1(1): Murder
	Statute 35-42-1-1(1) Degree MR
	04	02/13/2017	35-42-1-1(1): Murder
	Statute 35-42-1-1(1) Degree MR

 

[sunshineray]

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

08C01-2210-MR-000001

Charges​

Hide all charge details

	01	02/13/2017	35-42-1-1(2): Murder
	Statute 35-42-1-1(2) Degree MR
	02	02/13/2017	35-42-1-1(2): Murder
	Statute 35-42-1-1(2) Degree MR
	03	02/13/2017	35-42-1-1(1): Murder
	Statute 35-42-1-1(1) Degree MR
	04	02/13/2017	35-42-1-1(1): Murder
	Statute 35-42-1-1(1) Degree MR

Yes thank you, I've seen those. The charges are not for abduction , they're for murder in the commission of "kidnapping".

 

[shonyakay]

I did notice this. I gave it some weight. But still, rather wide window imo. I'm interested in how they narrowed it down. I'm sure it will have to do with the witnesses who saw RA / whom he admits he saw. Its going to be a super interesting case to follow to see how each side tries to prove / disprove the timeline...

They narrowed it down by Kelsi's car being seen on The Hoosier Harvest store's camera. I believe this info was in RA's PCA.

 

[mrjitty]

When ever I’ve followed a case I’m always amazed at details which manage to creep into the public realm that are perceived as facts, that turn out not to be true or are never mentioned again during the trial. It’s sometimes due to incorrect media reporting from unreliable sources or hastily written books. MOO

Exactly!

And even stuff at the prelim which turns out to be a bit different at trial.

I think especially when there is a huge gap between the arrest and the trial, inevitably everyone gets over-focussed on the PCA which is not even relevant in the trial.

 

[Salah11]

Why is there any question marks over when the girls arrived?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Why is there any question marks over when the girls arrived?

There shouldn't be IMO. The video footage and cell phone data from KG's and maybe Libby's during the drop off will confirm that. JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Yes thank you, I've seen those. The charges are not for abduction , they're for murder in the commission of a "kidnapping".

A quote from the article:

"According to our sister station WTHR, Judge Frances Gull approved both counts of murder but dismissed both counts of kidnapping during a hearing on Monday in Fort Wayne."

Murder charges approved, kidnapping charges dismissed for Delphi murders suspect

The special judge in the Delphi murders case made a few key decisions in two separate hearings on Monday that will determine how the case moves forward.

www.wndu.com

 

[ClearAhead]

A quote from the article:

"According to our sister station WTHR, Judge Frances Gull approved both counts of murder but dismissed both counts of kidnapping during a hearing on Monday in Fort Wayne."

Murder charges approved, kidnapping charges dismissed for Delphi murders suspect

The special judge in the Delphi murders case made a few key decisions in two separate hearings on Monday that will determine how the case moves forward.

www.wndu.com

BBM

Loading…

www.wane.com

Allen was charged with two new counts in addition to his existing murder charges.

He has now been charged with two counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping. Two other counts of kidnapping were dismissed by the state because the statute of limitation of five years has passed.

 

[FrostedGlass]

BBM

Loading…

www.wane.com

Allen was charged with two new counts in addition to his existing murder charges.

He has now been charged with two counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping. Two other counts of kidnapping were dismissed by the state because the statute of limitation of five years has passed.

It's tough to be wrong, which I am on occasion = this time. Thanks for pointing out my error.
Murder 2:
(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);

2023 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 42. Offenses Against the Person :: Chapter 1. Homicide :: 35-42-1-1. Murder

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

 

[Salah11]

There shouldn't be IMO. The video footage and cell phone data from KG's and maybe Libby's during the drop off will confirm that. JMO

Thank you I was worried I was missing something.

 

[steeltowngirl]

A quote from the article:

"According to our sister station WTHR, Judge Frances Gull approved both counts of murder but dismissed both counts of kidnapping during a hearing on Monday in Fort Wayne."

Murder charges approved, kidnapping charges dismissed for Delphi murders suspect

The special judge in the Delphi murders case made a few key decisions in two separate hearings on Monday that will determine how the case moves forward.

www.wndu.com

Clarity - from the article. The two counts of murder while committing or attempting kidnapping are still valid. It’s the two independent counts of kidnapping that were dismissed.

Back on Jan. 18, Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland filed a request to amend charges against Allen also to include:

• Two counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping (previously filed Oct. 28, 2022)
• Two counts of murder
• Two counts of kidnapping

According to our sister station WTHR, Judge Frances Gull approved both counts of murder but dismissed both counts of kidnapping during a hearing on Monday in Fort Wayne. She also ruled to keep all hearings within Carroll County and denied the defense’s motion to recuse the judge.

 

[sunshineray]

A quote from the article:

"According to our sister station WTHR, Judge Frances Gull approved both counts of murder but dismissed both counts of kidnapping during a hearing on Monday in Fort Wayne."

Murder charges approved, kidnapping charges dismissed for Delphi murders suspect

The special judge in the Delphi murders case made a few key decisions in two separate hearings on Monday that will determine how the case moves forward.

www.wndu.com

The two charges of kidnapping were dismissed but not the two charges of "two counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping".


"During the first hearing, Special Judge Fran Gull ruled on whether or not Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland can file additional charges against him.


The prosecutor had previously filed a request to amend charges to include two counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping, two counts of murder, and two counts of kidnapping, arguing that the changes “more accurately aligns the charging information with the cause’s discovery and the probable cause affidavit”.

Judge Gull dismissed the two counts of kidnapping during the hearing but approved the other two charges."

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen has two charges dropped ahead of trial

Richard Allen, 51, is charged with the 2017 Delphi murders of teenage best friends Libby German and Abby Williams

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Vern]

There shouldn't be IMO. The video footage and cell phone data from KG's and maybe Libby's during the drop off will confirm that. JMO

Also the verified DTG (Date Time Group) of the bench photo the young girls took who encountered RA on his way into the trails near the Freedom Bridge.

 

[shonyakay]

I don’t buy this idea either. I do not have any idea how they ended up where they were found dead. But I doubt very highly anyone waded through the cold creek in this murder. I can imagine the kids were placed in a vehicle or something - I can imagine all kinds of things. But my mind doesn’t let me imagine anyone trying to have two naked terrified kids wading through cold water across the creek. Would they not have been visible crossing the creek to anyone who may have been in the area?

MoMoooo.

There was clothing and a shoe in the creek. They were in the creek at some point, no doubt. Imo.

 

[shonyakay]

Starting at around 8:50, KG discusses the finding of Libby’s shoe on the same side of the creek as the bridge. The girls were then found across the creek.

"Somebody yelled up that they had found a shoe..."

It is also mentioned in this Investigation Discovery article.
Who KIlled Abby Williams & Liberty German? | Still a Mystery on Investigation Discovery | Investigation Discovery

"Then, on February 14, searchers reportedly found a single shoe. Within minutes, they made another grim discovery — they reportedly found the girls' remains, less than a mile from where they had started their hike just 24 hours earlier. The tragedy made headlines around the country, and media flooded the small town."

IIRC, the shoe was floating in some mulch debris closer to the side of the creek where they found. This quickly led to the girls' discovery on that side of the creek.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Clarity - from the article. The two counts of murder while committing or attempting kidnapping are still valid. It’s the two independent counts of kidnapping that were dismissed.

Back on Jan. 18, Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland filed a request to amend charges against Allen also to include:

• Two counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping (previously filed Oct. 28, 2022)
• Two counts of murder
• Two counts of kidnapping

According to our sister station WTHR, Judge Frances Gull approved both counts of murder but dismissed both counts of kidnapping during a hearing on Monday in Fort Wayne. She also ruled to keep all hearings within Carroll County and denied the defense’s motion to recuse the judge.

Thank you for clarifying my mistake.

 

[FrostedGlass]

The two charges of kidnapping were dismissed but not the two charges of "two counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping".


"During the first hearing, Special Judge Fran Gull ruled on whether or not Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland can file additional charges against him.


The prosecutor had previously filed a request to amend charges to include two counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping, two counts of murder, and two counts of kidnapping, arguing that the changes “more accurately aligns the charging information with the cause’s discovery and the probable cause affidavit”.

Judge Gull dismissed the two counts of kidnapping during the hearing but approved the other two charges."

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen has two charges dropped ahead of trial

Richard Allen, 51, is charged with the 2017 Delphi murders of teenage best friends Libby German and Abby Williams

www.independent.co.uk

Thank you for catching my mistake.