Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #196

[sunshineray]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed for personalizing>
I see it this way, Abby says, is that a gun? He's got a gun.

"Guys...down the hill". Then the sound of a gun being cocked/chambered.

Court documents released in Delphi murder case: Read the probable cause affidavit here

The affidavit does not indicate how Libby German or Abby Williams were killed Feb. 13, 2017. Read the probable cause affidavit here.

www.indystar.com

Those girls were terrified and IMO obeying to stay alive. If he had told them to walk a mile, two miles, they would have with a gun pointed at them. Crossing shallow cold water and a sandbar, then up a steep incline, IMO, would had been done on automatic. Fear is a great motivator. MO

 

[sunshineray]

Thank you for catching my mistake.

Sorry it took me awhile to respond, farmer's market today

 

[steeltowngirl]

IIRC, the shoe was floating in some mulch debris closer to the side of the creek where they found. This quickly led to the girls' discovery on that side of the creek.

I am basing my thoughts on this part in the GHI video - KG says at 8:52 “as soon as I identified the shoe that they found, they actually looked across the creek and saw them”.

By chance, do you have a link to your information, about the shoe floating in the creek closer to where they were found?

jmo

 

[shonyakay]

I am basing my thoughts on this part in the GHI video - KG says at 8:52 “as soon as I identified the shoe that they found, they actually looked across the creek and saw them”.

By chance, do you have a link to your information, about the shoe floating in the creek closer to where they were found?

jmo

If you look at the 18:40 ish mark in the helicopter video, you will see the bridge. The camera then zooms in to searchers standing near the edge on the opposite side of the creek of the bridge. There is some mulch to the north of them with some whitish colored items in twined in it. These are where the clothing items and one of Libby's shoe's were found. I can't link to the up close pictures of the clothing and shoe because they were posted by an unapproved source.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

From Photographer4

“I don’t buy this idea either. I do not have any idea how they ended up where they were found dead. But I doubt very highly anyone waded through the cold creek in this murder. I can imagine the kids were placed in a vehicle or something - I can imagine all kinds of things. But my mind doesn’t let me imagine anyone trying to have two naked terrified kids wading through cold water across the creek. Would they not have been visible crossing the creek to anyone who may have been in the area?”

No scenario I have ever heard involves the girls being disrobed before crossing the creek. Most of their clothing was at the crime scene, not on the south side of the creek. Makes way more sense that they were disrobed there.
The water was shallow at that place, and I’m sure the girls did not want to cross it, but they were not in a position to argue with a man with a gun.
Yes they would have probably been visible crossing the creek, but that’s irrelevant because no one did see them. RA took a chance and it worked out for him unfortunately.

 

[Salah11]

I think their loyalty towards each other played a massive part in neither trying to run for it as well.

So that helped RA that day as well. He had the gun and neither girl was going to abandon the other to try and get help.

IMO

 

[somequestions]

Thanks for the compliment and you are correct that no one shined their light on me. Yes, I camped in the summer. However I owned wooded acreage so I know how the woods look in Indiana in all four seasons.

I'm not sold on the idea that searchers were all over the crime scene that night. I don't think they focused on that area; they thought the girls were injured - fell of the bridge or whatever or were with friends.

I think the searchers that night probably thought that there was no way the girls crossed the creek in February as it would have gotten them wet. At some point though, Ron Logan did say searchers knocked on his door asking if they could search his property. Logan said ok. I do not think Ron Logan is involved in the murders. I am relating the search process as I remember the story of how it was done.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I think the searchers that night probably thought that there was no way the girls crossed the creek in February as it would have gotten them wet. At some point though, Ron Logan did say searchers knocked on his door asking if they could search his property. Logan said ok. I do not think Ron Logan is involved in the murders. I am relating the search process as I remember the story of how it was done.

Yes, they did ask him when he got home from the fish store. If they went down to the crime scene, they didn't find anything.

 

[Megnut]

One can easily imagine the cycle of natural emotions a parent would experience. Irritation that child isn't ready for pick up. Irritation child isn't answering phone. Then worry. Then anger. Then desperation. Then hope.

The girls were together, that's always a relief. The (mis)perception that the buddy system is failsafe.

It's easy to imagine early searchers expecting the girls to be alive, maybe not answering the phone because they were off on adventure without permission. Somewhere safe. Or lost. Or injured. All the things you tell yourself as a parent so your mind doesn't go to scary places.

I doubt anyone was looking down. No one IMO was looking for bodies.

 JMO

 

[Megnut]

Something to consider: now that there's compelling witness testimony that the F wasn't an F (or a 7L) but was left by LG, transferring blood from her neck injury to the tree against which she probably collapsed, then IMO all the remaining elements of the crime scene align with the abductor.

So the limbs, leaves, branches. IMO RA was in the process of covering them completely. I've theorized he may have been planning to start a fire but regardless I believe his actions were cute short because he heard an adult calling for AW and LG. Now, if that's the case, what was he doing between THAT time and when he was seen walking along the roadway?

I think he was looking for a way out. Avoiding trails, avoiding people, avoiding home owners...

What's also notable -- based on what's known -- no witnesses came forward who saw RA/BG between 2:13 and 3, 3:15, 3:30, 3:50.

I'd like to hear him presplain how he left the park and answer for how nobody saw him to do.

JMO

 

[somequestions]

Yes, they did ask him when he got home from the fish store. If they went down to the crime scene, they didn't find anything.

Good point. I cannot say how thorough the search was done on his property.

I do not think Ron Logan is the killer though, mainly due to my opinion. It is because of something Ron Logan stated to the judge after his probation violation conviction. When the judge asked Logan if he had anything to say, Logan replied sarcastically that the only reason he is going to jail is because someone murdered two girls and it happened to be on his property. This is probably true as his probation violation probably would not have become known to the police without the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

When he made that statement it showed me that he was wise enough to know to leave the bodies somewhere else other than in a place where he becomes the number one focus of the investigation. This is not proof at all. It could be that he was not a very smart criminal too.

Then there is Richard Allen who obviously knows about the Mears Trailhead parking area since he stated in the tip narrative in the PCA that he noticed vehicles in the parking area as he was walking to the bridge. Even if somehow Richard Allen was able to walk back to his car without being seen after the crime except possibly by SC at 3:57pm, why he did not park at the Mears Trailhead area? Was that parking area full? Mears trailhead parking was closer and would have avoided the Hoosier Harvest store surveillance camera, especially if his original plan was to walk to the Monon High Bridge anyway. He would have been closer to his vehicle instead of possibly having it on surveillance camera too. I do not understand it, but I do not understand confessing 61 times either. If he is convicted, I think it will be the confessions that do him in. There are a lot of questions that will hopefully be answered at trial.

 

[Salah11]

Something to consider: now that there's compelling witness testimony that the F wasn't an F (or a 7L) but was left by LG, transferring blood from her neck injury to the tree against which she probably collapsed, then IMO all the remaining elements of the crime scene align with the abductor.

So the limbs, leaves, branches. IMO RA was in the process of covering them completely. I've theorized he may have been planning to start a fire but regardless I believe his actions were cute short because he heard an adult calling for AW and LG. Now, if that's the case, what was he doing between THAT time and when he was seen walking along the roadway?

I think he was looking for a way out. Avoiding trails, avoiding people, avoiding home owners...

What's also notable -- based on what's known -- no witnesses came forward who saw RA/BG between 2:13 and 3, 3:15, 3:30, 3:50.

I'd like to hear him presplain how he left the park and answer for how nobody saw him to do.

JMO

Yes he claims he sat on a bench which I assume is on the trail so why did nobody spot him?

He must of been quite visible out in the open if we are to believe his story.

 

[Kudzuu]

I still can't wrap my head around keeping the gun and admitting to wearing the clothes the killer had on IF YOU WERE THE KILLER.

Either RA has serious mental illness or he's really dumb. It makes no sense.
MOO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Then there is Richard Allen who obviously knows about the Mears Trailhead parking area since he stated in the tip narrative in the PCA that he noticed vehicles in the parking area as he was walking to the bridge. Even if somehow Richard Allen was able to walk back to his car without being seen after the crime except possibly by SC at 3:57pm, why he did not park at the Mears Trailhead area? Was that parking area full? Mears trailhead parking was closer and would have avoided the Hoosier Harvest store surveillance camera, especially if his original plan was to walk to the Monon High Bridge anyway. He would have been closer to his vehicle instead of possibly having it on surveillance camera too. I do not understand it, but I do not understand confessing 61 times either. If he is convicted, I think it will be the confessions that do him in. There are a lot of questions that will hopefully be answered at trial.

RSBM/BBM

Whose vehicles do you suppose he saw? My theory is the only vehicles he saw was on his trek back to his car around 3:57pm.
He arrived before KG and BB so where did these cars come from that he saw?
Jmo

 

[sunshineray]

I still can't wrap my head around keeping the gun and admitting to wearing the clothes the killer had on IF YOU WERE THE KILLER.

Either RA has serious mental illness or he's really dumb. It makes no sense.
MOO

Maybe he was feeling guilty right off the bat? 61+ confessions are just the product of almost 6 years of that guilt building up? Just some thoughts.

 

[photographer4]

RSBM/BBM

Whose vehicles do you suppose he saw? My theory is the only vehicles he saw was on his trek back to his car around 3:57pm.
He arrived before KG and BB so where did these cars come from that he saw?
Jmo

KG said she remembered a vehicle at the Mear's Parking Area as well: "Kelsi remembers seeing a dark SUV, its rear windshield covered in decals, parked near the entrance where she dropped off the girls."

A new path

DELPHI — Kelsi German stops, the gravel beneath her feet ceasing its crunching. She gazes at the memorial honoring her sister and her sister’s best friend, both of whom died

www.purdueexponent.org

I wonder if any of the witnesses also recalled seeing a dark SUV in the parking lot as they were leaving the area? I also wonder if LE ever worked out who's vehicle that was that KG recalled seeing and if they spoke to the driver and or owner? Maybe it was also spotted on the HH store cam?

 

[Vern]

Sunset in Delphi occured at 1819hrs (6:19 pm) on 13 Feb 2017

Sunrise and sunset times in Delphi, February 2017

Calculations of sunrise and sunset in Delphi – Indiana – USA for February 2017. Generic astronomy calculator to calculate times for sunrise, sunset, moonrise, moonset for many cities, with daylight saving time and time zones taken in account.

www.timeanddate.com

Abby & Libby were reported missing to the police at 1730hrs (5:30 pm)
- Prior to that time their family and friends walked the trail calling them and trying to find them;
- when the police arrived at 5:30 pm they began canvassing the area and seeking permission from home owners with land bordering the trails to search it. Search of lands bordering trails stops with darkness (6:19 pm due to safety) so only 45 minutes of "search" on the 13th
- trails and roadways were manned overnight (pic in one link showing the cars at night of those manning the trails and area)
- search of the lands bordering the trails begins the morning of the 14th and continues
- girls are found deceased half a mile from the trail

DELPHI TIMELINE: Disappearance and murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams

The mystery surrounding a double murder continues over a month after the bodies of Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, were found. </p><p><strong>MORE </strong>| <a…

www.wrtv.com

Timeline: Abby and Libby's killings and Richard Allen's defense

From the girls' disappearance in 2017 to suspect Richard Allen's trial in 2024, a complete, interactive timeline of the Delphi murders case.

www.wfft.com

2 bodies found during search for teen girls

An hour after Delphi AssistantFire Chief Curtis Borden toldRTV6two missing teen girls from Carroll County were found, calling it "not good," authorities said at a press conference two bodies had been found in the area they went missing.

www.wrtv.com

 

[sunshineray]

KG said she remembered a vehicle at the Mear's Parking Area as well: "Kelsi remembers seeing a dark SUV, its rear windshield covered in decals, parked near the entrance where she dropped off the girls."

A new path

DELPHI — Kelsi German stops, the gravel beneath her feet ceasing its crunching. She gazes at the memorial honoring her sister and her sister’s best friend, both of whom died

www.purdueexponent.org

I wonder if any of the witnesses also recalled seeing a dark SUV in the parking lot as they were leaving the area? I also wonder if LE ever worked out who's vehicle that was that KG recalled seeing and if they spoke to the driver and or owner? Maybe it was also spotted on the HH store cam?

I'm sure it's in the discovery since KG's interviews most certainly are, MO

 

[katydid23]

I don't know; the P included that testimony for some reason. IMO
How accurate can TOD be considering the weather conditions?

I think it can be pretty accurate. The girls reportedly ate banana pancakes before they went to the trails. The ME would look to see if they had been fully digested or not, most likely. I don't think the weather would impact that much.

I don't think the weather was extreme conditions---just chilly as it was February. But they could probably tell ithe difference between if the TOD was 4pm vs 4 am , IMO.

 

[katydid23]

I don't know; the P included that testimony for some reason. IMO
How accurate can TOD be considering the weather conditions?

I think it can be pretty accurate. The girls reportedly ate banana pancakes before they went to the trails. The ME would look to see if they had been fully digested or not, most likely. I don't think the weather would impact that much.

I don't think the weather was extreme conditions---just chilly as it was February. But they could probably tell ithe difference between if the TOD was 4pm vs 4 am , IMO. The difference between being deceased for 6 hours vs 16 hours?