Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #196

[sunshineray]

I thought kidnapped and abducted meant the same thing.

I did too. Google "difference between kidnapping and abduction".

 

[shonyakay]

I did too. Google "difference between kidnapping and abduction".

I did after your post. I see the definitions differ now.

 

[sunshineray]

Well it’s confusing because “the old farm bureau building” has been gone since 2012 and it’s a parking lot now.

I don’t know how the prosecution got “old cps building” from old farm building, I don’t know if they nailed that down in interrogation or what.

time will tell. JMO

RA himself may have cleared that up in his confessions, in his own words. MO

 

[Andieinsyd]

So close, yet so far.

Thinking of Abby's and Libby's families.

Yes, I can’t imagine the emotions the families must be going through. I think they have been very invested in Today is the day, and getting justice for Abby, Libby and themselves. But, the details of the crime must be unimaginably harrowing for them to listen to, these were their precious children. And they were murdered in a way that is incomprehensible really, the stuff of nightmares. If RA is guilty (and I think he is) I really hope he pleads guilty before the trial, even if it is for purely selfish reasons (save his soul etc).

 

[photographer4]

He's not a witness, family, LE, nor involved with the court, defense or prosecution. He did not publish them.

But he has discussed them in social media in detail. So him being in receipt of them and disclosing the details as he did is not a breach of the order I guess. And no one minds or finds this egregious because he’s not a party to the proceedings. Ok. Fair enough.

 

[photographer4]

Yes but the charges make it clear what occured...kidnapping not abduction. MO

Not sure I follow - what’s the difference? I quoted the D motion so maybe they aren’t aware of a difference between kidnapping and abduction in a legal sense either?

 

[AugustWest]

The girls were kidnapped, not abducted. There is a difference and the charges against RA show that. I was also using "abducted" but have realized now, I was wrong. The girls were taken under force, against their will and with ill intent to do them harm resulting in their murders. AJMO

Indiana's statute for kidnapping makes no distinction between the two. Some states do have statutes for both (California is one), as was the case at early common law. Nowadays, in most jurisdictions the two terms are used interchangeably.

2023 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 42. Offenses Against the Person :: Chapter 3. Kidnapping and Confinement :: 35-42-3-2. Kidnapping

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

 

[photographer4]

Well it’s confusing because “the old farm bureau building” has been gone since 2012 and it’s a parking lot now.

I don’t know how the prosecution got “old cps building” from old farm building, I don’t know if they nailed that down in interrogation or what.

time will tell. JMO

I mean did they have him show them on a map or something we don’t know yet?? Interested to find out for sure!

 

[photographer4]

When RA first contacted the police in Feb. 2017, DD's tip narrative says RA parked at the old farm bureau building and walked to Freedom Bridge.

The PCA says investigators believe RA was talking about the old CPS building.

There are also witnesses who say they saw a car similar to RA's 2016 Black Ford Focus parked at the old CPS building.

But the same witness (singular because I’m only away of the one lady) said she saw a car that looks nothing like RA’s car per Franks 1. Then Grey Hughes also had the guy call in who worked for pest control and he saw a car along the side of the road. I’ve linked it many times before so not linking now. I wonder if LE ever sorted which car the pest guy saw?

 

[photographer4]

It would need property owners allowing their land to be accessed...otherwise, IMO, it probably won't be doable.

Couldn’t a court order make their consent unnecessary?

 

[photographer4]

It would mostly hinge on if RA's confessions are heard before or after the crime scene trip. I think it would be much more powerful, for the prosecution, if viewed after hearing RA's confessions w/details. MO If I was a juror, I'd be replaying what RA said he did, picturing it, while viewing the scene.

Oh man. If I were the D I would want the field trip before any testimony or evidence was presented at all so that jurors could consider it at every step of the trial. Moooo

 

[sunshineray]

But he has discussed them in social media in detail. So him being in receipt of them and disclosing the details as he did is not a breach of the order I guess. And no one minds or finds this egregious because he’s not a party to the proceedings. Ok. Fair enough.

No different than the first FM being released and then sealed by the judge days later, IMO. The information was put out there. No getting the cat back in the bag.

 

[sunshineray]

Not sure I follow - what’s the difference? I quoted the D motion so maybe they aren’t aware of a difference between kidnapping and abduction in a legal sense either?

If you google the "difference between kidnapping and abduction" you'll be able to note the difference and how kidnapping coincides with the charges, abduction does not. MO

 

[photographer4]

No different than the first FM being released and then sealed by the judge days later, IMO. The information was put out there. No getting the cat back in the bag.

yeah I suppose.

 

[sunshineray]

Indiana's statute for kidnapping makes no distinction between the two. Some states do have statutes for both (California is one), as was the case at early common law. Nowadays, in most jurisdictions the two terms are used interchangeably.

2023 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 42. Offenses Against the Person :: Chapter 3. Kidnapping and Confinement :: 35-42-3-2. Kidnapping

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

Your link talks only about kidnapping. Hard to then tell the differences in the language for the crime code for abduction, as far as Indiana is concerned.

 

[sunshineray]

But the same witness (singular because I’m only away of the one lady) said she saw a car that looks nothing like RA’s car per Franks 1. Then Grey Hughes also had the guy call in who worked for pest control and he saw a car along the side of the road. I’ve linked it many times before so not linking now. I wonder if LE ever sorted which car the pest guy saw?

Never heard of a pest guy witness seeing a car.

 

[sunshineray]

Couldn’t a court order make their consent unnecessary?

I doubt a property owner can be forced in this matter...I'd think not.

 

[AugustWest]

Your link talks only about kidnapping. Hard to then tell the differences in the language for the crime code for abduction, as far as Indiana is concerned.

There isn't a statue on "abduction" in Indiana because they have incorporated the common law rule on "abduction" into the kidnapping statute. As I said, there is no legal distinction between the two in Indiana. If you disagree, could you specify what you take issue with exactly.

 

[sunshineray]

Oh man. If I were the D I would want the field trip before any testimony or evidence was presented at all so that jurors could consider it at every step of the trial. Moooo

I'm actually surprised the defense wants it at all.

 

[sunshineray]

There isn't a statue on "abduction" in Indiana because they have incorporated the common law rule on "abduction" into the kidnapping statute. As I said, there is no legal distinction between the two in Indiana. If you disagree, could you specify what you take issue with exactly.

And yet the word "abduction" appears not in the code. Interesting, thanks