Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #196

[Vern]

Cue the defense doing the following:

(1) Objection - hearsay. What the witnesses said was an out of court statement used to prove the matter asserted; and

(2) Call both witnesses to see exactly what they said. If what they testify to differs from your LE witness's answer, then the prosecution just shot down their own witness's credibility.

(1) Bring on the Judge to render the decision; and

(2) Why didn't the Defence call them for statements too? Did they not have this option?

 

[Vern]

Judge Gull allowed the State to have access to RA's employment records for CVS. I'm not sure about other employers.

MOO

There is some brought in by the Defence footnotes in one of the Frank's that brings up prior employment - National Guard service IIRC.

 

[AugustWest]

(1) Bring on the Judge to render the decision; and

(2) Why didn't the Defence call them for statements too? Did they not have this option?

Not during the 3rd party and confession hearing. I'm sure that they will be testifying at trial.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Hasn't Judge Gull already ruled that the conditions of RAs confinement played no part in his confessons?

What am I missing? The testimony also showed that RA was treated differently than others being held. I'll echo the previous comments regarding extended family visits, being kept without any 'room-mates', 24/7 access to his own tablet upon which he could make calls anytime he wished, watch movies etc etc etc ...

Regarding the question I emphasized: you're not missing anything because my post had nothing to do with confessions. It was just some information about the solitary confinement pods within the prison; I thought it might be of interest to someone. This: WCU holds 110 maximum security inmates assigned to long-term restricted housing plus110 inmates in disciplinary segregation.

I'm not sure what your "room-mates' comment is about. From what I've read, none of the people in maximum security pods at Westville have roommates.

 

[girlhasnoname]

There is some brought in by the Defence footnotes in one of the Frank's that brings up prior employment - National Guard service IIRC.

Thanks, 10 years of NG service IIRC. RA would definitely know how to carry a person and maneuver terrain, he was no shrinking violet. At the time of the murders he was much thinner too than in his booking photo.

MOO

 

[photographer4]

I have a theory on this:

IMO, after RA was questioned on 13th October 2022, LE pulled the "Bridge Guy" witnesses in and showed them a photo line up that included a photo of RA (possibly using circa 2017 driver's license photos?). I think that the both of them identified him from that line-up and ergo why the Defence got the answers they did to their "hypothetial what-if" questions they didn't like the answers to (the insistance that it was RA whom they saw sayeth the individual being questioned).

Of course, no one knew RA had even been questioned about the deaths of the two girls - Abby & Libby - nor that he had been taken into custody until the news broke on October 28th 2022.



The witnesses did not see his photo on TV, or in the media, in a paper etc ... nada prior to making any idenfication of him IMO.

If this holds to be the case, the Defence is certainly able to ask the actual witnesses upon their cross-examination whether or not LE somehow or other 'influenced' them into identifying RA as the individual they saw, but I'm thinking they won't like th answers they get to that question either.

All IMO of course. We'll find out at trial!

I’m gonna be surprised if the people who helped with sketches didn’t see his photo on TV BEFORE they helped create the sketches since police released the still image of BG on the 15th per this link: Review all of the evidence in the Delphi murders case that's been publicly released

But one witness helped with the sketch FOUR days after seeing a man on the bridge. The other one didn’t get hers done until 126 days after she saw a man near the scene…. https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

Plenty of time for them to have seen BG’s image on TV from LG’s phone… to read whatever was floating around social media at the time (and there was a lot!)

It will be interesting to learn more about it, but I don’t know how accurate the witness descriptions could be really. Sometimes as well, sketch artists get a great likeness, sometimes, they don’t - moo but I’ve linked to this issue previously. We do not KNOW what issues the witness descriptions might have if any, but it won’t shock me if the D attack things like this at trial. MOOOOO.

 

[photographer4]

Absolutely not. Her information came BEFORE the photo came out.

Do you have a link? I just shared a link upthread from the news that says BG photo was out to the media on the 15th so I’m curious. Ty. Here is the link again for ease of acces: Review all of the evidence in the Delphi murders case that's been publicly released

 

[photographer4]

I’m gonna be surprised if the people who helped with sketches didn’t see his photo on TV BEFORE they helped create the sketches since police released the still image of BG on the 15th per this link: Review all of the evidence in the Delphi murders case that's been publicly released

But one witness helped with the sketch FOUR days after seeing a man on the bridge. The other one didn’t get hers done until 126 days after she saw a man near the scene…. https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

Plenty of time for them to have seen BG’s image on TV from LG’s phone… to read whatever was floating around social media at the time (and there was a lot!)

It will be interesting to learn more about it, but I don’t know how accurate the witness descriptions could be really. Sometimes as well, sketch artists get a great likeness, sometimes, they don’t - moo but I’ve linked to this issue previously. We do not KNOW what issues the witness descriptions might have if any, but it won’t shock me if the D attack things like this at trial. MOOOOO.

Actually - this link says: “A female witness, whose name has also been redacted, told investigators she also saw a man matching the description of the “Bridge Guy” captured on Libby’s video on the Monon High Bridge.” Delphi murders: How police pinned the 2017 slayings on Richard Allen

So it is possible that seeing the image DID have some influence over her statement imo. MOOO. IMO. I’m not saying this has happened. I’m saying it is easy to see how it COULD have happened, and that the D may well attack this point at trial.

 

[ClearAhead]

According to this article, RA’s confessions continued into 2024 although I haven’t read the corresponding transcript. It would seem to indicate Harshman took on another assignment after RA’s two month confession flurry because that was the time period he stated.

Reading this, IMO RA is hooped. His DT should provide him with a small amount of dignity in assisting him to change his plea. RA not only expresses his reason for confessing (ie finding God, atonement for his sins) but apparently he also rationalizes his ceasing to confess by a nonsensical benefit. Just my opinion, the man is pathetically dumb but is enjoying all the attention.

BBM

'Motive' for Delphi 'killer' refusing plea deal despite 61 confessions uncovered

ACCUSED Delphi murderer Richard Allen has allegedly confessed to killing two teen girls more than 60 times since his arrest in 2022, but questions have been raised over why he hasn’t taken a …

www.the-sun.com

Allen's confessions lasted throughout 2023 and into 2024, per state testimony.

Cain said she found the timing of Allen ceasing to confess particularly interesting.

"The confessions apparently ended after he essentially said he wanted his wife and mother to tell him they'd still love him, even if he had done these things to these girls," explained Cain, an investigative journalist.

"So he wanted to present them with the information in his confessions, then get assurances they'd continue to be there, continue to love him, and continue to support him, and what the state's witness said was that Richard Allen's wife and mother's reactions were quite negative.

"The wife told him to stop talking, that she was going to call Brad [Rozzi, his defense attorney] and his mother told him they were messing with his mind.

"He would get hung up on and, at a certain point, his family stopped communicating with him, presumably because they did not want to hear what he had to say about these crimes.

"Eventually, he apparently told someone he felt he had to choose his family over God because his family was rejecting him. So he chose their emotional well-being over atonement."

 

[sunshineray]

Did she describe the man to a friend in a text message? When did she first give details about him? Tia.

I don't know about that.

 

[sunshineray]

Actually - this link says: “A female witness, whose name has also been redacted, told investigators she also saw a man matching the description of the “Bridge Guy” captured on Libby’s video on the Monon High Bridge.” Delphi murders: How police pinned the 2017 slayings on Richard Allen

So it is possible that seeing the image DID have some influence over her statement imo. MOOO. IMO. I’m not saying this has happened. I’m saying it is easy to see how it COULD have happened, and that the D may well attack this point at trial.

That was the purpose of releasing BG's photo, wasn't it? To ask the public for information on his identity or if someone saw him, where, when, what was he doing, those kind if things, right? Now people who came forward are going to be attacked by the defense for doing so? I don't think that would go over well with the jury, do you? I'd actually call that bad lawyering. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

So potentially, the witnesses who helped with sketches could have been influenced by having seen an image of BG produced from LG’s phone?

Or they could have called LE and said, I saw that guy, that day and where.

 

[sunshineray]

You are free to question a witness about their professional opinion on a matter. Overruled.

And if they have none, having to do with the way you structured the question posed to them? To answer "yes" or "no" might not be accurate and elaborating just supposition. Lawyers try to play word games all the time with witnesses. IMO

 

[sunshineray]

OK. I'm still not sure.

So they aren't Nick's clients and as such, he had no authority to tell them to dummy up? OTOH, he believes it's in the public's best interests to advise them to not answer certain questions?

Dummy up as you put it could be the end result of badgering the witness. There's that aspect of it too. MO

 

[photographer4]

Or they could have called LE and said, I saw that guy, that day and where.

Preferably, they called Le and said I saw A guy - and then described him without having seen the image released by LE to the media. It may have been better imo if LE had asked for anyone who had been at the trails that day to contact them and get their info BEFORE releasing the photo of Bg just to help ensure they weren’t unintentionally influenced by it. Of course they may not have done things this way as they maybe hoped someone would see the photo and name the suspect. Hard for LE to know which way to go in the chaotic first days of a murder investigation sometimes no doubt. Moooooo

 

[photographer4]

Answer as myself: "No need for me to speculate, the witnesses have identified the individual they saw as being Richard Allen".

Me as a LE: can you tell me what makes you absolutely certain the man you saw is infact, Richard Allen?

Me as a lawyer would really like the answer!

 

[photographer4]

Judge Gull allowed the State to have access to RA's employment records for CVS. I'm not sure about other employers.

MOO

If he wasn’t at work and shoulda been that day he has some splainin to do

 

[photographer4]

That was the purpose of releasing BG's photo, wasn't it? To ask the public for information on his identity or if someone saw him, where, when, what was he doing, those kind if things, right? Now people who came forward are going to be attacked by the defense for doing so? I don't think that would go over well with the jury, do you? I'd actually call that bad lawyering. AJMO

I think it’s a fair question which came first: did you describe your man to Le before or after you saw an image made public by Le?

That’s not even an attack. It’s a basic question. Is this somehow offensive?

 

[ClearAhead]

If he wasn’t at work and shoulda been that day he has some splainin to do

This is a good example of how little is known about RA. We don’t know his regularly scheduled work hours or even if he showed up that day.

I think it’s remarkable how coworkers and other people associated with him have kept so very quiet, other than a few very general comments. MOO

 

[photographer4]

This is a good example of how little is known about RA. We don’t know his regularly scheduled work hours or even if he showed up that day.

I think it’s remarkable how coworkers and other people associated with him have kept so very quiet, other than a few very general comments. MOO

It may be he wasn’t scheduled or given time of day, maybe had finished already for the day. Not sure why it hasn’t come up yet but I guess it’s not his albi. Lol.