Abductions or Attempted Abductions Involving Schools

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And he took them one by one, not in a big group.
 
Calliope said:
Early on, Grainne Dhu posted a video of a news show (can't recall which one... don't believe it was Dateline) where a man was able to persuade kids to leave with him in spite of their parents' insistence that these children knew 'stranger danger'. It was ridiculously easy, and scary as hell to watch. I hope she catches this post and puts the video up again.

IIRC, this took place in a public park, where kids should be naturally suspicious of strangers and know that there is a potential danger. But in school? Most adults wouldn't consider the possibility someone could harm a child while in school, isn't it reasonable to assume that the child would let their guard down?
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It was Primetime. Here's an article with the video:

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/somer-thompson-case-abductors-lure-kids/story?id=10331320

At least a couple of the kids in that video "knew" the right answer before or after the experiment but it wasn't enough to keep them safe.

I personally believe that it is an impossible task to teach children under age 10-12 or so an effective definition of stranger. How do you explain the difference between a stranger in a park and SAR personnel? There was a case recently (I can't remember the name, sorry) of a child lost in the wilderness who was actively avoiding SAR personnel out of fear of "stranger danger." He was finally found (apprehended?) but it could so easily have had a tragic ending.

Samantha Runnion's mother, Erin, agrees; she says we shouldn't be teaching kids "stranger danger," we should be creating communities and systems where children are safe from predators. Warning: I found her site to be counter-intuitive and difficult to navigate but there is information there, it was just difficult for me to find:

http://www.thejoyfulchild.org/
 
GrainneDhu said:
I personally believe that it is an impossible task to teach children under age 10-12 or so an effective definition of stranger. How do you explain the difference between a stranger in a park and SAR personnel? There was a case recently (I can't remember the name, sorry) of a child lost in the wilderness who was actively avoiding SAR personnel out of fear of "stranger danger." He was finally found (apprehended?) but it could so easily have had a tragic ending.
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I remember that case! IIRC, it was an 11 year old Boy Scout in Utah who was on a hike or a camping trip. His name was Brennan Hawkins.

http://articles.cnn.com/2005-06-22/...hawkins-brennan-hawkins-jody-hawkins?_s=PM:US

Charli-Ann
 
Charli-Ann said:
I remember that case! IIRC, it was an 11 year old Boy Scout in Utah who was on a hike or a camping trip. His name was Brennan Hawkins.

http://articles.cnn.com/2005-06-22/...hawkins-brennan-hawkins-jody-hawkins?_s=PM:US

Charli-Ann
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Thank you!

That case just gives me the chills. Brennan could have been seriously injured or even killed as he avoided SAR personnel.

I honestly believe that, while parents can give their children some guidelines to help keep them safer, there is a point at which the normal kid just doesn't have the cognitive ability or life experience to deal with complex concepts such as "who is a stranger."

And developmentally, I have to wonder if it is harmful to children if they are fearful of people they do not know... which just happens to comprise most of the world!
 
One of the first children ever pictured on a milk carton is still missing after 31 years. Etan Patz was walking to the bus stop near his home.

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-05-13/...-missing-child-case-disappearance?_s=PM:CRIME

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-05-13/...-missing-child-case-disappearance?_s=PM:CRIME

Not precisely a grab at or near school, but a sexual predator had been photographing boys and trying to get them into the drainpipe where he lived.

His parents learned that he was missing when he failed to return home from school that day.
 
CHILDREN AT GREATEST RISK OF ABDUCTION WHEN GOING TO AND FROM SCHOOL OR SCHOOL-RELATED ACTIVITIES
​
"As parents prepare for the start of a new school year, teaching children how to be safe needs to be at the top of their list of things to do. An analysis by the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children (NCMEC) of attempted abductions during the past five years found that children are at most risk when going to and from school or school-related activities. NCMEC is partnering with actor Tim Kang, of the hit CBS show The Mentalist, to launch a new campaign to help educate parents about what they should be telling their children to keep them safe. "

Source: National Center for Missing and Exploited Children

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/NewsEventServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=4320
​
 
As a new school year started on Tuesday, I was reminded of a safety program for which I volunteered when my DD was in elementary school. Parents who were generally at home during the day were asked to participate in the "Helping Hands" program that was a joint effort of our local police department and the school district. Interested parties attended an informational session and were instructed about the duties of participants whose homes would display the "Helping Hands" sign.

I was among the participants in the program when my DD was in fifth grade. I was only called upon once to help a student who happened to be a classmate/friend of DD. The girl couldn't find her house key and knew that she could come to our home so that I could call her mom and let her know the circumstances. I called the mom and said that her daughter could stay at our home until she came to pick her up and that there was no reason to worry. The girls had a snack and were doing homework together.

I hope that neighborhoods around the country offer safety programs like this so that children know they can seek refuge if they feel uncomfortable about something on their way to or from school. jmo
 
LillyRush said:
Deanie Marie Pyle Peters (Michigan, 1981)

Websleuths thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14113&highlight=deanie+peters

The Grand Rapids Press News Archive & Blog:
http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2008/03/a_look_back_the_investigation.html
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Such a heartbreaking case! Years and years of searching, interviewing, and still the parents have no answers, no body, no justice. My heart goes out to LE for the tragedies they investigate for years. Children who disappear without a trace leave loved ones with so much heartbreak. Thanks for such an interesting case. Pretty sure I saw this on Cold Case Files. moo mho
 
LillyRush said:
Deanie Marie Pyle Peters (Michigan, 1981)

Websleuths thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14113&highlight=deanie+peters

The Grand Rapids Press News Archive & Blog:
http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2008/03/a_look_back_the_investigation.html
Click to expand...

Wow. Great info & link.

She & her mom go to her brother's sports event at the school. Deanie tells her mother she's going to the bathroom.

And is never seen again.

I've got to read more on this case. I've just read a few posts so far.

Child walks away, goes missing, inside school. Sound familiar? And from what I've read so far, no one automatically blamed the mother. Hmmm.
 
Kat010 said:
Wow. Great info & link.

She & her mom go to her brother's sports event at the school. Deanie tells her mother she's going to the bathroom.

And is never seen again.

I've got to read more on this case. I've just read a few posts so far.

Child walks away, goes missing, inside school. Sound familiar? And from what I've read so far, no one automatically blamed the mother. Hmmm.
Click to expand...

The news archive link has the whole story, well written, clear, and succinct. The history of a case that goes on for decades is heartbreaking and interesting. I learn so much from cold cases. moo mho
 
Kat010 said:
Wow. Great info & link.

She & her mom go to her brother's sports event at the school. Deanie tells her mother she's going to the bathroom.

And is never seen again.

I've got to read more on this case. I've just read a few posts so far.

Child walks away, goes missing, inside school. Sound familiar? And from what I've read so far, no one automatically blamed the mother. Hmmm.
Click to expand...


Not even remotely similar, imo. And it's clear that her mother was not suspected because she was in the gym with her 4yo son at the time. People must have seen both her and the girl there, then they saw only the Mom.

snip and bbm from the articles linked:

14-year-old Deanie Peters disappeared from her little brother's wrestling practice at Forest Hills Central Middle School

snip~

Deanie was at the middle school with her mother to attend a wrestling clinic for youngsters, including her 4-year-old brother. At some point, she crossed the gym floor and exited a doorway. Stories differ as to whether she was headed to the restroom, sneaking out for a cigarette or bound for a friend's nearby home.

I can't really tell what the point of this thread is wrt Kyron's case by the title. Is it to show that a stranger abduction FROM INSIDE the school is likely, or a very remote possibility? We all know that many abductions involve children on their way to/from school. But most abductions FROM school are not by strangers. I don't think there can be any legitimate dispute that stranger abductions from inside a school are uncommon. In fact, they almost never happen. That's one of the things that makes this case so remarkable.
So what are the posts in this thread driving at?
 
Kat010 said:
One of the first children ever pictured on a milk carton is still missing after 31 years. Etan Patz was walking to the bus stop near his home.

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-05-13/...-missing-child-case-disappearance?_s=PM:CRIME

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-05-13/...-missing-child-case-disappearance?_s=PM:CRIME

Not precisely a grab at or near school, but a sexual predator had been photographing boys and trying to get them into the drainpipe where he lived.

His parents learned that he was missing when he failed to return home from school that day.
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I'm from NYC, and was living there when Etan disappeared... The whole city was in shock. The lead detective could never get any evidence to convict Ramos. But, supposedly what happened was that Ramos "dated " the Patz's babysitter. He knew Etan was going to walk alone to the bus stop, and was waiting for him. At that time Ramos was a building super on the Lower East Side, not far from where the Patz's lived. He had a basement apartment. In another aprt of the basement LE found a lime pit.... It caused the lead detective so much anguish that he died a few years later. He was never able to get over the fact that he couldn't bring Ramos to justice...

All JMO
 
liz b. said:
I'm from NYC, and was living there when Etan disappeared... The whole city was in shock. The lead detective could never get any evidence to convict Ramos. But, supposedly what happened was that Ramos "dated " the Patz's babysitter. He knew Etan was going to walk alone to the bus stop, and was waiting for him. At that time Ramos was a building super on the Lower East Side, not far from where the Patz's lived. He had a basement apartment. In another aprt of the basement LE found a lime pit.... It caused the lead detective so much anguish that he died a few years later. He was never able to get over the fact that he couldn't bring Ramos to justice...

All JMO
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Yes, this was one of those horrible, shocking cases that really tears your heart up. Another innocent little boy, like Kyron, with loving parents and siblings who were expecting him for planned family activities.
 
I had posted this before, and maybe it needs to be posted again right here. In this video, John Walsh talks about mistakes made in Kyron's case and also what he finds to be the biggest problem in solving school abduction cases--when the parents don't know the child is missing for several hours, until the end of the school day.

http://www.kptv.com/video/23932914/index.html
 
Kat010 said:
Because we've talked so often about the possibility of someone other than TH abducting Kyron from school, or whether or not the school's arrangements and activities that day were conducive to someone snatching him, I thought I'd open a thread to look at other cases.

How many cases of children being snatched from school, or school grounds, buses, once they get off the bus at the bus stop, or walking to/from school in normally "safe" areas have happened? Will looking at them provide any insights into other potential crimes other than Kyron leaving w/TH?

Discuss! :smiliescale:
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Hi Kat!

I am having a hard time thinking through this, please bear with me.

(Yes I watched the John Walsh vid :) thanks for sharing, he's one of my hero's).

In your OP you asked will looking at other abductions from schools as possibly giving us insight into Kyron's missing person case and the possibility of whether Kyron left with TH?

I agree this is a good thesis for a thread. BTW.

But, is it possible to narrow it down a bit? There are a few reasons I ask this...

1. Will we be including children that were reported by their parents to have left their home and walked to the bus or to school and disappeared along the way, never to have arrived at school?

2. Will we be including children that attended school and disappeared on the way home while walking and/or children that disembarked a school bus to disappear then?

3. Will we be including children that were signed out by an adult and disappeared?

4. Will we be including unresolved missing children cases or resolved ones or both?

5. Will we be including children that disappeared while at, or leaving structered after school services?

I'm just trying to get a handle on this in my own head. The reason I ask is because it was reported that Kyron was inside the school when he disappeared. I'm not sure how the other missing children cases where the children weren't inside the school when they disappeared will help us understand Kyron's circumstances because the situations diverge so much KWIM?

TIA for insight. I do like this thread :)


ETA: Will we be including just children in Kyron's immediate age range or Teenagers too?
 
If Kyron was last seen at school, then either he was taken from school (that is, in the building) or left the building for some reason and was taken from someplace outside. (Presumably, LE has eliminated accidental death and the killed and hidden on school grounds possibilities.). So the question of whether such abductions have happened at or around schools is germane and applies whether a parent, stepparent, family acquaintance, teacher or stranger was the abductor. Predators go where the prey is, so they do things like follow school buses or hang around a block or two away from schools that kids can walk to.

form those interested in how to teach kids to make better decisions, Gavin DeBecker has a book that followed his Gift of Fear that takes on this subject, suggesting that parents need to put kids in scenarios where they will recognize the inappropriate overture by an adult and distinguish that from, say, a someone safe to approach if lost or in trouble. The book is Protecting the Gift--just googled the title, since I couldn't remember. De Becker's website also has tips on child child safety on his website.
 
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