AB's Involvement ptII

[salvarenga]

butwhatif: Where exactly did you read or learn that, "Using contractions is indicative of honesty whereas not using contractions is indicative of deception"?

I didn't want to quote your whole post b/c of it's length.

 

[Bia.]

The entire case at this moment is based on who is telling the truth. EB is giving one story. AB is giving another story. No way is LE going to tell AB or EB what the other is saying or doing. They are even advised to not talk about or give any details about the case. Early on when AB was talking to reporters he often looked over at the Chief for approval before speaking. None of what the media puts out there can be taken as actual facts in the matter when talking to anyone except LE. Unless there is new evidence that shows AB is telling the truth, he is still a POI. As far as anyone letting him in on the news about the alleged incident with SY and JY I don't think anyone would. What do you do go up to the guy and say..... Hey buddy you know someone accused these guys of raping and killing your daughter, but hey LE didn't find any evidence so they dropped it......Would you? Most everything we have seen so far is focused on EB. It looks as though the LDT brought out the ransom note and things just went from there.

As we have seen from her letters she says in them maybe there was someone else all along. Yet it seems as though she was the someone with somebody or somebodies all along. So you have to take some things that are going to shock the heck out of you, and let them go to the back notes until facts come out. I know it's hard. I'm guilty of jumping the gun all the time. Just keep in mind that pretty much AB and KB are hearing things at the same time we all are.

BBM

Thing is, EB's story has a ton of evidence that backs it up. AB's "story" is: "I had no idea my daughters body was dismembered in my home while I was living there. Nor did I even know if she was alive or dead because I last saw her 100% on Tuesday ... no wait, Thursday. Actually it was the Wednesday a week before".

EB may be a manipulative, evil woman but I have a feeling she is the only one telling the truth here.

 

[NCMOM]

It's also possible that LE is not keeping Adam in the investigative loop because Adam has been living with and maintaining obvious associations with numerous of EB's family members. LE won't risk having any incidental (or accidental) leaks of info to other potentially-involved (or knowledgeable) persons who may not be completely ruled out as of yet.

MOO

I totally agree, AB doesn't have the best judgment (that is a fact people not just my opinion), the crowd he hangs with has PAGES of their own legal troubles. Why let them all know where the investigation is leading them? Don't let them know what to hide, or what dates to get your alibi in order for!

 

[westsidefox64]

BBM

Thing is, EB's story has a ton of evidence that backs it up. AB's "story" is: "I had no idea my daughters body was dismembered in my home while I was living there. Nor did I even know if she was alive or dead because I last saw her 100% on Tuesday ... no wait, Thursday. Actually it was the Wednesday a week before".EB may be a manipulative, evil woman but I have a feeling she is the only one telling the truth here.

BBM
Wednesday to saturday unless Im wrong is 3 days not a week.

I still see how he might not have known what happened. There is plenty of time between wed. and sat. for her to be killed dismembered and everything disposed of without his help. If it all happened in the hours he was working or sleeping. If the rape alligations end up being true she could have had plenty of help to get everything done.

I honestly think the only truth comming from EB is what she feels she has to disclose to make her look better. JMO

 

[Mrs G Norris]

^^ and to avoid the DP of course.

 

[revampz]

Thank you, I am healing more every day and finally know it was not my fault.

Quite informative:

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2010/12/02/189011_news.html

How many times is he mentioned in the warrants?

I am a very proud grandma and to see this on the news would probably be like the nail in the coffin. Especially, after what had already happened. Didn't Zahra live with the grandma while in Australia?

Thanks Straykat for putting this article from the Townsville Bulletin.....I bought the paper yesterday as we have just had a bit of an anger problem here with Axl Rose from Guns N Roses (he turned up 2 hours late for concert and everyone is out for blood)......I went to the concert and wanted to see peoples reaction...

Anyhow this article was in it and I just about fell off my chair when I read it. I never ever expected this rape bit as well. It really put a dampner on my day. I am not beleiving it though. I still think it was some form of natural death, maybe from being hit, and AB was involved in the cover up.

This article in particular really shows the "he said, she said" situation. It says that AB went white and fell on the floor etc and both him and his mother crying and then goes on to say that EB says they dismembered her, what they wrapped her in etc. I think so far she has told the truth about the situation and cant beleive his mother is beleiving him. they found her because of what EB told them and exactly where and how they said they would.

One thing that concerns me is why are they looking into her computer???

 

[thisjusthurtsmyheart]

Hello Sleuthers,

For what it is worth I think a lot of us thought that there would be some type of sexual abuse claim in this horrible tragedy. It was laden with almost all of the warning signs, and to know that not only did she endure physical and mental abuse but probably sexual abuse is appalling even more then the situation was before. I just want to throw up whenever I think about it. And then the anger sets in.

As for whether I think that these two guys SY and JY really did this to Zahra I am not sure. But contrary to popular belief I do believe that someone in her house was sexually abusing her and I think that there it was probably her wannabe father and EB if you could call either one of them "parents" I would have. I think that the money being deposited in the account was for things that were very depraved. They have to have webcam and IP signatures to figure out where they went. If they have dug far enough they can do all kinds of things with remote access. I am really starting to understand the "period" remark. Wow! If he says in a taped conversation with a 911 operator that she is brooding and starting her period then he can explain away the blood on the mattress????? He in my opinion was abusing her too! Why try to get someone out of trouble that could have raped and harmed your daughter, if you have nothing to hide as well???? Also, I dont fall for the der-da-der look that he gives like he has no idea why anyone would think that he would be depraved enough to dismember his daughter. Neither do I fall for the "all I want is to find her and take her back to OZ" (not word for word) I think that the couple hurt her regularly and this time it went to far and Z could not bounce back from the last assault. They then went into panic mode and concocted some story about a kidnapper. And a fire in the back yard. To cover up possible evidence of the crime.

I am so sorry for the rant but I am SOOOOOOOOO very angry and I really think that AB and EB both had a hand in her death as a result of abuse that she probably dealt with for some time. If this in the wrong thread please feel free to delete it or move it to another one.IMHO

 

[NCMOM]

Hello Sleuthers,

For what it is worth I think a lot of us thought that there would be some type of sexual abuse claim in this horrible tragedy. It was laden with almost all of the warning signs, and to know that not only did she endure physical and mental abuse but probably sexual abuse is appalling even more then the situation was before. I just want to throw up whenever I think about it. And then the anger sets in.

As for whether I think that these two guys SY and JY really did this to Zahra I am not sure. But contrary to popular belief I do believe that someone in her house was sexually abusing her and I think that there it was probably her wannabe father and EB if you could call either one of them "parents" I would have. I think that the money being deposited in the account was for things that were very depraved. They have to have webcam and IP signatures to figure out where they went. If they have dug far enough they can do all kinds of things with remote access. I am really starting to understand the "period" remark. Wow! If he says in a taped conversation with a 911 operator that she is brooding and starting her period then he can explain away the blood on the mattress????? He in my opinion was abusing her too! Why try to get someone out of trouble that could have raped and harmed your daughter, if you have nothing to hide as well???? Also, I dont fall for the der-da-der look that he gives like he has no idea why anyone would think that he would be depraved enough to dismember his daughter. Neither do I fall for the "all I want is to find her and take her back to OZ" (not word for word) I think that the couple hurt her regularly and this time it went to far and Z could not bounce back from the last assault. They then went into panic mode and concocted some story about a kidnapper. And a fire in the back yard. To cover up possible evidence of the crime.

I am so sorry for the rant but I am SOOOOOOOOO very angry and I really think that AB and EB both had a hand in her death as a result of abuse that she probably dealt with for some time. If this in the wrong thread please feel free to delete it or move it to another one.IMHO

Unfortunately, I think you are right about everything. But, has it been verified that EB DID receive money? I know AF said so, but then that is just hearsay. I would be very curious to know if the guy in London really sent money. Cause no way was he sending it just to talk to a woman. Even a woman who was posing as her much younger and more attractive daughter.

 

[newone]

So many times we suspect step fathers as the instigators of abuse and now this case highlights the need for men to be more circumspect in the women they chose to be around their children. It is possible that EB is the sole person responsible for Zahra's demise.

 

[sorrell skye]

butwhatif: Where exactly did you read or learn that, "Using contractions is indicative of honesty whereas not using contractions is indicative of deception"?

I didn't want to quote your whole post b/c of it's length.

I'm interested in this, as well, and would love to read about it. It sounds fascinating.

Any links to web sites with scientific or peer-reviewed info would be greatly appreciated. I'm always interested in learning more.

 

[Allusonz]

IF Adam did not know, I find myself wondering why 3 teenage girls across the street in the trailer park did, why a teacher or two did, why the neighbors at different locations did, why AF did, or BS or BB and AY and the list goes on. For some reason AB was oblivious...no way in my book. I think the IF can be removed quite easily.

i am not picking any particular post this just seemed to be the shortest

there is a course that i facilitate and it is very interesting what people think they see and what they dont think they see

one example is a motor vehicle accident, i can have a class of 10 and out of that class 2 will say one colour, 2 will say it is another colour etc

2 will say it is 2 door, 2 will say it is 4 door

2 will say it is a compact, 2 will say it is a mid size car

2 will say the light was green, 2 will say it is red

some even say that it was a stop sign and yes that has been said

2 will say they are wearing seat belts, 2 will say they were not

i guess that point i am trying to make is that peoples perceptions are very different, they mean well for the most part and truly believe what they saw or heard, but it does not necessarily mean any of them are right....

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I want to believe Adam's most egregious act was that of neglect but after seeing the description of the home (attached) on NG show ~ I can't understand how Adam could stand in that macabre house and make his 911 call stating that he thought his daughter was merely kidnapped. If there was still enough blood visible that a blood spatter specialist was called in, it's hard for me to understand how Adam couldn't have noticed something was wrong in that very house. In spite of the fact that there was a clean-up effort there must have still been intact blood droplets for the specialist to analyze. Aside from the blood there were also bone chips in the tub and tissue remnants left behind. . . Consider, too, all of the areas that had to be cleaned: the bedroom, the bathroom and the kitchen (that we're told were dismantled). I just can't imagine anyone entering that house and not seeing (or smelling for that matter) that something very far worse than a child abduction had happened there. And I can't remember ~ did he stay there for a few days after EB was arrested? Did he bathe/shower in that bathroom? Or did he move out right away to one of EB's daughter's house?

I want him to be innocent for Zahra's sake I guess. But after reading the following attachments it is almost impossible for me.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1012/01/ng.01.html

 

[Mountain_Kat]

It's interesting to note that in one of the search warrants, carpet fibers were retrieved. No, if you look at the pics of Zahra's bedroom floor, it seems pretty obvious, to me at least, that the wood on the floor is some kind of subflooring. When we first saw the pics of the house, many of us speculated that the floor in the bedroom didn't look like a finished floor, and we wondered if there had been carpetting in there. If my assumptions are correct, and they may not be, I'm inclined to believe that the carpet fibers LE took into evidence were from the floor or Zahra's bedroom. And if that's the case, where did the carpet go?

So...we have a murder that occurs in the house,dismemberment going on in the bathroom and kitchen, removal and replacement of mattresses, all kinds of painting going on, and possibly a carpet being removed. Even if we take the earliest date that AB claims to have seen Zahra (which was Tusday), then he's asking us to believe that in the course of 4 days, he never once noticed anything amiss going on in this house. No questions about all the painting? No questions about a mattress being taken out and a new one brought in? No questions about the carpet in Zahra's room suddenly disappearing (assuming my assumptions about carpet are correct)? No showers being taken by him for 4 days? No idea that anyone carried a corpse or body parts off for disposal in the "company vehicle" he drives? No idea there was blood on the console of his company vehicle, even though he obviously drove it to work on Wed, Fri and Saturday afternoon?

I'm sorry, but that is just complete and utter BS.

IMO, of course.

 

[tlcya]

I want to believe Adam's most egregious act was that of neglect but after seeing the description of the home (attached) on NG show ~ I can't understand how Adam could stand in that macabre house and make his 911 call stating that he thought his daughter was merely kidnapped. If there was still enough blood visible that a blood spatter specialist was called in, it's hard for me to understand how Adam couldn't have noticed something was wrong in that very house. In spite of the fact that there was a clean-up effort there must have still been intact blood droplets for the specialist to analyze. Aside from the blood there were also bone chips in the tub and tissue remnants left behind. . . Consider, too, all of the areas that had to be cleaned: the bedroom, the bathroom and the kitchen (that we're told were dismantled). I just can't imagine anyone entering that house and not seeing (or smelling for that matter) that something very far worse than a child abduction had happened there. And I can't remember ~ did he stay there for a few days after EB was arrested? Did he bathe/shower in that bathroom? Or did he move out right away to one of EB's daughter's house?

I want him to be innocent for Zahra's sake I guess. But after reading the following attachments it is almost impossible for me.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1012/01/ng.01.html

If those blood spatters were obvious to the naked eye, I highly doubt that LE would have held off on searching the home immediately. I also do not find it reasonable that they would have left a bloody crime scene unguarded for several weeks while they got their warrant.

Hence it is only reasonable for me to conclude that the blood spatter was NOT ovbious to the naked eye and only revealed itself to LE when exposed to the ultraviolet light arrays during the comprehensive search of the home.

I cannot fault AB for blood spatter not being obvious to him when it wasn't obvious to LE until special equipment was involved.

Not saying AB isn't involved. Simply saying that for me, the blood spatter sheds no additional light on whether AB had to have known or not.

 

[westsidefox64]

If those blood spatters were obvious to the naked eye, I highly doubt that LE would have held off on searching the home immediately. I also do not find it reasonable that they would have left a bloody crime scene unguarded for several weeks while they got their warrant.

Hence it is only reasonable for me to conclude that the blood spatter was NOT ovbious to the naked eye and only revealed itself to LE when exposed to the ultraviolet light arrays during the comprehensive search of the home.

I cannot fault AB for blood spatter not being obvious to him when it wasn't obvious to LE until special equipment was involved.

Not saying AB isn't involved. Simply saying that for me, the blood spatter sheds no additional light on whether AB had to have known or not.

ITA I also would like to add with all the painting going on her removing a carpet wouldnt be suspect to me either if she did in fact get rid of it. LE very well could have taken it out of the room to remove the piece of flooring and it may have been rolled up and in another room.It may also have never existed. When you see the indigent report EB listed ABs income at $600.00 a month. That is only $150.00 a week. Not alot for that kind of labor. Im thinking the house rent was part of his wage and maybe fixing it up was part of the deal.
One other thought with all the painting going on and cleaning with bleach Im not so sure that wouldnt trump any blood odor. Im also wondering about the showering. We know they took the pipes and traps but dont know anything was found in them. I take hair with soap scum out of my drains frequently and there are normally 3 showers+ taken daily the hair in the drain could have held any bone or tissue from going down. JMO

 

[bellyup]

I guess I'm just thinking that he wouldn't have had 'emergencies' on a daily basis..and if Adam was working SO much..why were they having such financial problems?..cause I'm sure he wasn't working and not getting paid.

Somewhere early on the "details" of what AB was being paid were posted. It was NOT much. I think in large part he was working for his rent and a very low wage. He was likely not working legit (over the table so to speak) so there would not have been any legal guidelines on how or what he was paid. It's very possible that he even worked many many hours and wasn't paid the requisite "overtime".

 

[bellyup]

I wouldn't call it a mistake. I just think it was a delay tactic used by the DA that ended up back firing on him. The seal expired. The media filed for the release. The DA said OK let's hold a hearing on it but not till 12/13. The judge said no we can hold a hearing today (today being the day they were released) about it. The DA said he would not be prepared to argue against the release till 12/13 so the judge said sorry the ones that are expired are being released. There are still others that are sealed that they will have a hearing on the 13th.

Either way, once the judge gave the ok. The records had to be pulled, copied, etc. You can be sure that in that time if they had wanted to LE or the DA could have given AB a call and said, "hey just so you don't get hit out of left field with this....this is what's being put out today."

I don't believe that LE is doing this in this case at all.... it doesn't seem that they informed ED prior to their release (based on her post at HM) and they OBVIOUSLY aren't considering her of any wrong doing. Based on her posting she seems to be in regular contact with LE and has said at other times that MSM reports were the "first time I've heard of this".

I am not taking them not informing AB of the rape allegations before hand to mean anything at all, really.

 

[tehcloser]

I think BECAUSE the blood splatter and things were not visible to the naked eye shows even more how much of a clean up effort was undertaken and that to me points even more to him knowing and being guilty.

 

[bellyup]

BBM

Thing is, EB's story has a ton of evidence that backs it up. AB's "story" is: "I had no idea my daughters body was dismembered in my home while I was living there. Nor did I even know if she was alive or dead because I last saw her 100% on Tuesday ... no wait, Thursday. Actually it was the Wednesday a week before".

EB may be a manipulative, evil woman but I have a feeling she is the only one telling the truth here.

I'm not sure AB said those words exactly? He said he didn't dismember her.

On the confusion with dates thing, I really cut him some slack ... a week or so ago I posted about my DH being a POI in a crime (he was completely cleared) and our reaction to it. Being interrogated is so stressful that you cannot even imagine it unless you've been in the situation. You are so scared you might say something "wrong" that will make them think you are guilty (even if you aren't). You forget things EASILY because your mind is a mess with a million questions and just PURE fear. You are questioning yourself CONSTANTLY. "Wait did that happened Tuesday... or was it Monday? It could have been Sunday." Your days blur together because you aren't eating or sleeping properly. Things you say today you realize tomorrow were not the correct thing or the way it happened.

And in our case it wasn't OUR child that was missing and the child wasn't presumed dead. AB's head was and still is a complete MESS...regardless of if he's innocent or guilty .

 

[bellyup]

If there was still enough blood visible that a blood spatter specialist was called in, it's hard for me to understand how Adam couldn't have noticed something was wrong in that very house. In spite of the fact that there was a clean-up effort there must have still been intact blood droplets for the specialist to analyze. Aside from the blood there were also bone chips in the tub and tissue remnants left behind. . . Consider, too, all of the areas that had to be cleaned: the bedroom, the bathroom and the kitchen (that we're told were dismantled). I just can't imagine anyone entering that house and not seeing (or smelling for that matter) that something very far worse than a child abduction had happened there. And I can't remember ~ did he stay there for a few days after EB was arrested? Did he bathe/shower in that bathroom? Or did he move out right away to one of EB's daughter's house?

I don't think there was obvious signs (ie; blood spatter,etc.) in that house. No way no how. If that were the case LE would have been all over that house from the giddyup. They let the house sit there for AT LEAST many days but I think it was more like two weeks before they tore it apart. They also allowed AB access to the house during that time and it was NOT SECURE. Had there been any evidence easily seen by the naked eye that would NOT have happened.

Also, we don't know that bone chips and tissue WERE found in the tub. That information is purely EB's claims that those things MAY be found in the tub drains / etc.