AB's involvement?

[Sin City]

OT/ (Well, not about the interview)

I would REALLY like to know if AB was an experienced hunter at any point in his life. I cannot get past wondering that. It also could be a very damning bit of information to know, for sure. Wouldn't it?

If he was, then dismembering wouldn't effect him as it would most people.

I don't know about this, as my husband trapped and skinned wildlife throughout his childhood to sell the pelts. My husband could never do anything like this to a human.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

OT/ (Well, not about the interview)

I would REALLY like to know if AB was an experienced hunter at any point in his life. I cannot get past wondering that. It also could be a very damning bit of information to know, for sure. Wouldn't it?

If he was, then dismembering wouldn't effect him as it would most people.

I have seen this come up a couple times. I assume it is b/c of the question of the skill involved in dismemberment (not b/c of the ability to kill, etc)?

I am not so sure it takes skill to dismember if you are not concerned about the outcome other than the remains being in pieces.

 

[Pondering Mind]

I have said this many times - I put no stock in how people appear when handling tragedy. If really innocent, he could well be in shock or deeply depressed in a way that just doesn't show emotion. Someone guilty could just as easily act outraged.

Not saying this is what I believe - just saying that people react differently under stress.


ETA: He could be medicated, etc, as well, for all we know.

WhyaDuck, you know that I respect you immensely :blowkiss: and I know you are right and would agree with you if it were just that..but looking at him..I'm not seeing depression or shock..I'm not even sure what I'm seeing, but I'm a firm believer that the eyes are windows to the soul..and his eyes just look cold.. to me. ..jmho..fwiw

 

[WhyaDuck?]

WhyaDuck, you know that I respect you immensely :blowkiss: and I know you are right and would agree with you if it were just that..but looking at him..I'm not seeing depression or shock..I'm not even sure what I'm seeing, but I'm a firm believer that the eyes are windows to the soul..and his eyes just look cold.. to me. ..jmho..fwiw

Right back at you, PM. But I am also a firm believer that there are many things that cloud those windows to the soul, and without knowing him before this, I cannot say much on that subject.

But it's all conjecture and perspective, so one's as good as another, eh?

 

[Sin City]

I have seen this come up a couple times. I assume it is b/c of the question of the skill involved in dismemberment (not b/c of the ability to kill, etc)?

I am not so sure it takes skill to dismember if you are not concerned about the outcome other than the remains being in pieces.

If AB is responsible for the dismemberment I wonder if he even remembers doing it? Would his mind even allow him to remember something so terrible? Would he have to be doing some heavy duty drugs to allow him to dismember? I'm having such a hard time wrapping my mind around this.

 

[Pondering Mind]

Right back at you, PM. But I am also a firm believer that there are many things that cloud those windows to the soul, and without knowing him before this, I cannot say much on that subject.

But it's all conjecture and perspective, so one's as good as another, eh?

I really do realize that people react differently..and I guess Nana, myself and others that have lost a child DO think of our grief, which could tend to cloud (although I speak only for myself)..but even we grieved differently I'm sure..so it's not so much even what I'm seeing on the outside, if that makes any sense. It's like he's devoid of any emotion..sadness, grief, outrage..etc...IDK, he's an odd one that's for sure..

 

[JoeFromLB]

If AB is responsible for the dismemberment I wonder if he even remembers doing it? Would his mind even allow him to remember something so terrible? Would he have to be doing some heavy duty drugs to allow him to dismember? I'm having such a hard time wrapping my mind around this.

This might seem off the wall, but I wonder if EB/AB are protecting a third individual, or group of people.

Just a (strong) feeling on my part, but everything we've seen so far could be just the tip of the iceberg. This case is just plain screwy on so many levels.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

I really do realize that people react differently..and I guess Nana, myself and others that have lost a child DO think of our grief, which could tend to cloud (although I speak only for myself)..but even we grieved differently I'm sure..so it's not so much even what I'm seeing on the outside, if that makes any sense. It's like he's devoid of any emotion..sadness, grief, outrage..etc...IDK, he's an odd one that's for sure..

I wasn't speaking of *you* being clouded, but him.

 

[Pondering Mind]

I wasn't speaking of *you* being clouded, but him.

LOL, and I didn't take it as that..I'm constantly questioning myself as to whether my experiences DO cloud my judgment. I try not to let it, but it is easier said than done at times..

 

[Cinderella.]

This is my opinion on adams involvement. I believe Zahra died of some kind of medical neglect. IMO, more than likely an infection from her prosthetic not fitting correctly. I think that they watched her die a didn't give a darn about her being sick. Then they dismembered her in the bathroom/kitchen. I don't think they did it on the bed because the blood stains would have been SUPER obvious and anyone who saw it in the dumpster, the people who emptied it, dump workers, etc... Would have notified LE about a mattress soaked in blood. Its very likely that they left her on the bed for sometime after she died though.

I think the fact that there was a new mattress in the house PROVES AB was in on at least the disposal of her body. I doubt (correct me if I'm wrong locals!) there is a 24 hour furniture store where EB could have purchased a new mattress the night Z "went missing". Don't even get me started on all else EB would have had to do alone in such a short amount of time. Noooo way.

 

[pip]

My belief is that she was beaten to death, by both and they were equally involved in disposal of her body. I also believe she had been enduring abuse, possibly even sexual, for some time. I think they were heavy into drugs and are both really messed up in the head.. living some sick fantasy life. Sadly, I also believe we will never know the details of her death or what she was going through prior to her death. I think they will both be convicted, but will claim innocence to the bitter end.

 

[Scamperoo]

In light of Zahra's father, Adam Baker's, interview this evening, 11-16-10 on WBTV.com, do our views change? Are they more dug in than ever?

Please remember to post respectfully of others, even if differing in opinion.

Tell me what you think and why. You may quote other's posts if they have given you a bouncing off spot for your own thought or opinon but at all times, please remember TOS.

If I had any doubt they were both responsible that so called in depth interview swept them away. I was 98% sure before, now it's at 100%, his responses were controlled and contrived by his lawyer for sure. He was neither heartbroken nor angry in fact he was devoid of any emotion which does not surprise me.

I don't think somehow he will be taking Zahra home...

 

[bellyup]

WARNING...GRAPHIC...
IMO....It would take someone...with considerable muscular ability and strength...like a man...would have...to...physically ....use tools ..with enough exertion and force......and for moving her around ...while committing the evil deed....NOT SAYING...she didn't have a role in it as well...for the "easier" parts....But DEFINATELY...she had help ....
AND for the lifting ...as well....as the physical act of digging holes...and carrying bags/containers...of her.....She had help.....

I am a much smaller woman than EB is and I am not overly fit... but I'm pretty sure that in a rage / with adrenaline pumping I could easily accomplish the feat and in a seemingly short time. When I get PO'ed I'm capable of doing about anything.

Thankfully, I usually channel my anger into mad feats of yard work / gardening or home improvement .... but I don't doubt for a minute that this could have been done by a woman on her own (whether it WAS in this case or not remains to be seen)

 

[bellyup]

I asked this on the other thread...has anybody heard AB ask ONE time if anyone was searching for his missing daughter through all this??? Nada not me.....where the hello is his outrage that she is dead, murdered and dissected and thrown out like garbage??? How can he sit there and calmly give a frigging interview???????:furious: Now I want to just hit something again. I gotta quit this.

We don't see what's going on behind the scenes though. I am guess that he was told that EB had given them information back on Oct 22 / 23rd. So he knew that SHE had told them where to look. LE was specific in saying they didn't want "outside" searchers .... so why would be be asking the media for people to look for her ?

 

[bellyup]

My belief is that she was beaten to death, by both and they were equally involved in disposal of her body. I also believe she had been enduring abuse, possibly even sexual, for some time. I think they were heavy into drugs and are both really messed up in the head.. living some sick fantasy life. Sadly, I also believe we will never know the details of her death or what she was going through prior to her death. I think they will both be convicted, but will claim innocence to the bitter end.

I think most of your post is a leap ... but the one leap I cannot take is that AB was / is on any major drugs. He may be a pot head but if he were on anything heavy duty we would have seen a change in him with the recent investigation.

 

[catnron]

I am a much smaller woman than EB is and I am not overly fit... but I'm pretty sure that in a rage / with adrenaline pumping I could easily accomplish the feat and in a seemingly short time. When I get PO'ed I'm capable of doing about anything.

Thankfully, I usually channel my anger into mad feats of yard work / gardening or home improvement .... but I don't doubt for a minute that this could have been done by a woman on her own (whether it WAS in this case or not remains to be seen)

I feel if AB was involved LE would have already arrested him for sure, it has been long enough that they would know. LE are very smart people and so far they have all been on track from the looks of things.I think he may be mentally challenged a lot.AB reminds me of some of the cases we have seen where I work. In my work I have seen so many people look normal, behave some what normal but as you talk to them and listen you will know different. It is sad but so true, even to look at AB as he speaks there is just something there that you can see that is just not right. I may be all wrong about this.I don't think AB knew anything.
I wish there was more known about the man that gave EB money.

 

[Kamille]

I can't get down off the fence yet because I'm a little confused about the timelines that are being thrown around with regards to how much time someone may have have to complete this gruesome task. I realize that in the 911 call AB used the term "we" when stating the time when Zahra was last checked on but he has said that he was actually asleep at the time and took EB's word for it that she was okay and in bed at 2:30am on Saturday. I don't see anything suspicious about him using the term "we" when referring to that 2:30am check, married couples refer to things they do individually as "we" all the time IMO. I would have found it suspicious if he insisted that they both got up out of bed and checked on her because she coughed.

His claim is that he last saw her up and awake on Thursday. Not clear as to when that would have been, before or after work. He also claims to have "looked in her room" after returning from work on Friday and seeing "something in the bed" that he believed was her asleep. He did not go in and disturb or wake her because of this "stomach virus" that she supposedly had. Those claims were made very early on, right after EB was arrested.

If he is truly not involved, then everything would have had to happen on the Friday while he was supposedly at work. Don't know what time he was supposed to have left for work on that Friday but he did say that he got home late and Zahra was already asleep. So he could have been gone for 12-15 hours that day for all we know.

All of it is plausible to me except for that mattress and the fact that the dogs hit in two different vehicles. We now know that the mattress tip was from EB, which is unfortunate because if other witnesses had reported it there would be an exact date when it was removed/replaced and if it were prior to that Thursday and the mattress does show evidence of Zahra being deceased then it would point directly at AB as being involved. But because as far as we know the only person who knew about that mattress being dumped was EB, that could have been the last task that she had to accomplish after AB went to sleep on the Friday night because she needed the larger vehicle to get rid of the mattress. After returning from that, she could have started the ransom note/fire caper.

With what we know right now, I suppose it is plausible that EB could have done this alone or with the help of a third party. But we don't have the evidence that LE does. And they don't seem to be backing AB in any way so that's where I have a hard time believing in his innocence.

MOO

 

[Aedrys]

I can't tell if he has two faces - the sweet innocent son act for mommy dearest and the real AB when mom is not around, or if mom has always been in charge of him, and he just does what she wants him to do, or expects her to do everything for him like Casey Anthony expects of her mom.

On one hand, I can see an act for mommy dearest. I can hear her telling him, just say these things and it will be alright. I know you're innocent. I know you're my precious little boy who could never do anything to hurt a child. I honestly don't know how she could have gone to that house, know about TWO cars with blood with in it, and think he is absolutely innocent, though. Maybe she's blinded by love for her perfect son. But there is another possibility here.

I do wonder if she's another Cindy Anthony. The family takes care of the family. Screw LE. Everyone else is wrong but the family. You don't mess with the family. Is it possible she knows what he did, but like Cindy Anthony, will do anything to keep him out jail and make sure EB stays there instead? Is she more worried about the perception of her son and that as a reflection of herself than justice for Zahra? And AB has let her do everything for him for so long that he's just going with what she wants because that's what he's been trained to do or he just expect mommy dearest to clean up all of his messes?

I really wish we knew more about the dynamic between him and his mother. I think that would tell us A LOT about why he's the way he is. I'm not blaming his mother for what he did, but I swear it seems like a lot of coverup and damage control is going on right now. It bothers me greatly that he wants people to believe he's innocent, but no emotion, no crying out for justice for his daughter, no disgust and nausea at what probably happened to her.

Something is just not right here and it's driving me NUTS. Maybe he's just emotionless and can't feel anything like Dexter, but in a worse way. I don't know, but he does remind of an episode of "Angel", where a demon was trapped in a little boy, and upon being freed, the demon tells Angel he was scared because "There's just NOTHING there."

 

[Aedrys]

Bringing my post over from the body language thread:

This interview was obviously arrainged by his attorney, to put some 'good press' about Adam out there. He was most likely told how to dress, how to behave, and attorney was there to advise what could and could not be spoken of.

That said: I didn't see anything that showed Adam as either a killer or a saint.

He reminded me of a couple clients I had. Stoic, fairly unemotional, and passive.

Some men are trained not to show emotion, and he probably is one of them. He may well be under mom's thumb. Tht may be the sort of person he is, a man who lets women run the show.

Of course mom would take up for him. Nothing he does or says will bring Zhara back. I think it's very unreasonable for anyone to expect a mother who's already lost one person in her life she loved to give up another. Whether or not he's responsible in some way, she can't see it that way, and thats the way many people would be, I think. It's normal. How can you believe that your son could do something like that? You can't!

I didn't see anything either way that would indicate what he did, or didn't. I saw a man who's frightened, in shock, and perhaps not too sure of what happened, or how.

BBM. But she's been INSIDE that house. She saw how much the police took out of it. She saw the condition it was in. She knows about two cars that have blood in them. How can she think he had no idea what was going on in his own home? How can she think he had nothing to do with the disposal? It's akin to Cindy Anthony smelling decomp in her daughter's car but is absolutely sure Casey didn't murder Caylee. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I understand a mother's love for her child. But there is too much here for her to ignore it all and think EB is only to blame. This isn't a case where the crime scene is elsewhere. The crime scene is his own home, his own two cars even if the police aren't calling his home the actual crime scene. They took took much out of walls, flooring, and the ceiling for this NOT to be the crime scene. And add the two cars with blood in them, something definitely happened inside that house. There's just NO WAY AB could not know about this or be oblivious to it.

I guess I would have to be his mother to understand how in the heck he could possibly be innocent. And I understand not wanting to believe the worst of someone you love. But there is too much here she's closing her eyes too, and that doesn't sit well with me. And I'm tired of hearing her say we don't understand because we don't know everything. Well then, tell us everything so we can understand!

 

[bellyup]

Does anyone have any links on the original assault charges being dismissed and how or why that came about ? We were discussing in another thread, but it more appropriately belongs here.....