AB's involvement?

[impatientredhead]

I also am not sure. There were times I thought he was, at least, partly involved, and then I go back to being unsure again. I just don't know enough to say yet. For me, he is guilty of not protecting his daughter from EB from the abuse. As far as the probable murder and body disposal, I just don't know what to think. I look forward to the police coming forward when they are ready to tell us what they have pieced together.

EB has shown herself to be quite a liar in her life so I feel I must doubt everything that comes out of her mouth. She is not living in the real world.

I think water seeks its own level as far as EB and AB go.
She probably delivered the fatal blow, I would accept that.
But he failed to protect his child with a known abuser.

I 100% believe he did all the heavy lifting on the disposal and clean up.

And they should both face the same penalty in my opinion.

 

[KPMcLovin]

Especially if you're talking about teh's brownies :wink:

Let's stop and take a breath for a moment and "turn the card over" so to speak

Ok - what if EB and AB had nothing to do with this? Then WHO did this? WHO had access to Zahra, the home, the cars, the backyard? WHO was/is so vindictive towards EB and AB that they would do this to a child?

IOW - If NOT EB and AB then WHO did this?

Whoever it was told EB exactly what was done with the body and where to find it.

 

[bellyup]

Not jumping on you, but most people with Asperger's and Austism don't murder or dismember anyone. I know a child with Asperger's. I think we're just a little sensitive because we know people with these disorders and no way in heck would we ever want to put AB in the same category. I know I cannot do it myself.

I in NO way referenced that Autism or Asperger's cause someone to murder and dismember someone. Especially since I believe there is a very good chance that Adam is INNOCENT. You clearly took that from my post.... perhaps because of your own sensitivity but it was in no way implied.

My child has Asperger's and my brother is HFA .... I see a lot of my own child and my brother in AB. The similarities between AB and my brother are profound and certainly help form my SUSPICION that AB could have one of these disorders.

 

[bellyup]

Especially if you're talking about teh's brownies :wink:

Let's stop and take a breath for a moment and "turn the card over" so to speak

Ok - what if EB and AB had nothing to do with this? Then WHO did this? WHO had access to Zahra, the home, the cars, the backyard? WHO was/is so vindictive towards EB and AB that they would do this to a child?

IOW - If NOT EB and AB then WHO did this?

I think we'd have to move to the "third party involvement" for that thread. <modsnip>

FWIW I think EB is guilty as the day is long.
Just not ready to throw AB in the same camp ... yet ? :waitasec:

 

[DLT88]

I'm almost close to the fence about EB having done the actual deed. Mainly because, there have been a few things that have made me wonder if this was a setup. But...haven't seen anything yet that is inching me any closer to the fence, so I'm just staying put for the moment.

I was entertaining this thought today as I was driving to get some lunch (all that brownie talk made me HUNGRY!) What IF EB did the whole thing -- the entire thing.....I noticed that she went, allegedly, outside to tell AB she couldn't find Zahra. It seemed to me she wanted AB to be the one to call and report it --- not her. Maybe, as she was doing this evil deed (I really think it was premeditated), she was maybe thinking, 'I can get rid of the kid and AB at the same time. I can blame all this on him. Then I can be ME again and free to meet someone else who actually HAS some money'......

Like others say, that 911 call bothers me, too, though. But I don't know AB and his mentality or his emotional or basic personality. I don't what is normal to him. Maybe EB knew he would come off that way, and then it would be easier to claim he either helped her do it or he did it on his own.

Just thinking of possibilities...........

 

[bellyup]

I'm almost close to the fence about EB having done the actual deed. Mainly because, there have been a few things that have made me wonder if this was a setup. But...haven't seen anything yet that is inching me any closer to the fence, so I'm just staying put for the moment.

I considered that (that EB was being set up).... for a moment. Then I decided that was exactly what she wants people to think. Master manipulator and all.

 

[DLT88]

I in NO way referenced that Autism or Asperger's cause someone to murder and dismember someone. Especially since I believe there is a very good chance that Adam is INNOCENT. You clearly took that from my post.... perhaps because of your own sensitivity but it was in no way implied.

My child has Asperger's and my brother is HFA .... I see a lot of my own child and my brother in AB. The similarities between AB and my brother are profound and certainly help form my SUSPICION that AB could have one of these disorders.

You might be right since you have experience with these things. I wonder if the socialized medicine in Australia is not that good at covering mental illnesses --- or things like Autism or Asperger's. It doesn't seem like ED was getting enough help (or any at all) for her post-partum depression. Maybe AB was never diagnosed if he has it.

 

[bellyup]

I think water seeks its own level as far as EB and AB go.
She probably delivered the fatal blow, I would accept that.
But he failed to protect his child with a known abuser.

I think what gets me on this is having grown up in a very (VERY VERY) mentally and physically abusive abusive home.... no one noticed. Really. No one knew it. In fact, I was often labeled the "problem" child and was fiercely protective of my abuser. We lived in a tiny apartment too. My abusers abuse was so that ... most would think my abuser was trying to punish an unruly child. In fact, in some ways other family members including extended family outside of the home CONTRIBUTED to the abuse without even realizing it. It wasn't until I was well into adulthood did a family member (one of the ones who contributed in fact) looked at me and said "OH MY GOD... it's wasn't you." and I just looked at them and shook my head "No."
They then went on a tangent as things "clicked" in their heads. "Oh my GOD ... that one time that the abuser had me do this or that ....." and I just sat there and listened.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I was entertaining this thought today as I was driving to get some lunch (all that brownie talk made me HUNGRY!) What IF EB did the whole thing -- the entire thing.....I noticed that she went, allegedly, outside to tell AB she couldn't find Zahra. It seemed to me she wanted AB to be the one to call and report it --- not her. Maybe, as she was doing this evil deed (I really think it was premeditated), she was maybe thinking, 'I can get rid of the kid and AB at the same time. I can blame all this on him. Then I can be ME again and free to meet someone else who actually HAS some money'......

Like others say, that 911 call bothers me, too, though. But I don't know AB and his mentality or his emotional or basic personality. I don't what is normal to him. Maybe EB knew he would come off that way, and then it would be easier to claim he either helped her do it or he did it on his own.

Just thinking of possibilities...........

No no...I meant I've actually entertained thoughts that EB had been set up by AB (and/or someone else).

But it was a pretty fleeting though, given the facts as I know them.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I considered that (that EB was being set up).... for a moment. Then I decided that was exactly what she wants people to think. Master manipulator and all.

Well, I didn't think that based upon anything SHE has said, so...

 

[bellyup]

You might be right since you have experience with these things. I wonder if the socialized medicine in Australia is not that good at covering mental illnesses --- or things like Autism or Asperger's. It doesn't seem like ED was getting enough help (or any at all) for her post-partum depression. Maybe AB was never diagnosed if he has it.

Asperger's (in particular) really does take a long history of symptoms to diagnose. It's also heavily debated in the medical field (it may just be a form of high functioning Autism). My child that has Asperger's wasn't firmly diagnosed into well into her teens (her diagnosis was further hindered by the fact that Asperger's is typically NOT subscribed to females)

Here is a page about the common symptoms http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/tc/aspergers-syndrome-symptoms and why I think they MAY pertain to AB.

Not pick up on social cues and may lack inborn social skills, such as being able to read others' body language, start or maintain a conversation, and take turns talking.
He frequently "over talks" in interviews. Looks to others to speak for him or tell him how to answer. He didn't even seem to notice Det. Deal's distance from him in the early interview.


Appear to lack empathy
This one is obvious.

Be unable to recognize subtle differences in speech tone, pitch, and accent that alter the meaning of others&#8217; speech. Thus, your child may not understand a joke or may take a sarcastic comment literally. Likewise, his or her speech may be flat and difficult to understand because it lacks tone, pitch, and accent.
His speech certainly is flat... it lacks tone, pitch and accent.

Have a formal style of speaking that is advanced for his or her age. For example, the child may use the word "beckon" instead of "call" or the word "return" instead of "come back."
While this link speaks of children ... I think it's also somewhat apparent in AB. Words like "appropriate" being used to describe a memorial service. In general he certainly has a formal way of speaking (which may be cultural but hearing his mother and ED they do not speak as "formally" as he does) The one thing this list doesn't mention but I know from experience with my daughter is that they OFTEN over explain something. To the point that it seems like they are just going on and on for no reason and they lack the ability to realize that doing this is akward to the person they are speaking to.

Avoid eye contact or stare at others.
We've seen this many times with AB. Sometimes he looks away ... and sometimes he appears to be starting. I see this frequently with my brother. Either he's staring at me or not looking at me (at weird times too)

Have unusual facial expressions or postures.


Be preoccupied with only one or few interests, which he or she may be very knowledgeable about. Many children with Asperger's syndrome are overly interested in parts of a whole or in unusual activities, such as designing houses, drawing highly detailed scenes, or studying astronomy. They may show an unusual interest in certain topics such as snakes, names of stars, or dinosaurs.Talk a lot, usually about a favorite subject. One-sided conversations are common. Internal thoughts are often verbalized.
I think as an adult this comes into play with online gaming for AB. They are usually drawn to things that are technical. My brother is also a video game addict ... and completely obsessed with computers and will talk to someone for HOURS about it never realizing that the person wasn't at all interested.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

So, I guess LE probably already knows whose blood was recovered from the console of AB's "company vehicle", huh? Can't take that long to get those labs back, can it?

 

[raisincharlie]

I was entertaining this thought today as I was driving to get some lunch (all that brownie talk made me HUNGRY!) What IF EB did the whole thing -- the entire thing.....I noticed that she went, allegedly, outside to tell AB she couldn't find Zahra. It seemed to me she wanted AB to be the one to call and report it --- not her. Maybe, as she was doing this evil deed (I really think it was premeditated), she was maybe thinking, 'I can get rid of the kid and AB at the same time. I can blame all this on him. Then I can be ME again and free to meet someone else who actually HAS some money'......

Like others say, that 911 call bothers me, too, though. But I don't know AB and his mentality or his emotional or basic personality. I don't what is normal to him. Maybe EB knew he would come off that way, and then it would be easier to claim he either helped her do it or he did it on his own.

Just thinking of possibilities...........

I don't see anything that concludes EB could not or was not capable of doing this all by herself. I do think it is a possibility, but I also think it is possible there is someone else involved and simply cannot get a grip on if that was AB or, someone else, as yet unknown. Dogs hitting both vehicles though is a big hmmm for me I admit. I am on for EB being the one who murdered Zahra though.

 

[NancyA]

I'm almost close to the fence about EB having done the actual deed. Mainly because, there have been a few things that have made me wonder if this was a setup. But...haven't seen anything yet that is inching me any closer to the fence, so I'm just staying put for the moment.

Hmm, now this is an interesting departure. EB set up?

'Set up' as in someone else is equally guilty but is doing his damnedest to make sure she takes the whole rap? Oh yes. Absolutely. I think I've already said I don't believe AB is quite as daft as he makes himself out to be, mind you he's not having to do much to see EB hangs herself, she's doing a fine job of that herself.

 

[Bia.]

I think AB was 100% involved, in all aspects, and he is the master manipulator in this case. I think it's weird he shaved his stash and beard, almost like he wanted to try to look like a young, innocent man. The lack of emotion, tears, anger is also another red flag. While I know there is a shock factor when finding out your loved one is dead, there is also some sort of emotion. When my father died unexpectedly I was in complete shock. I also cried until I could no longer. This was every day, for months.

AB is sitting back thinking he is going to go "home", just like EB thinks she will be getting out of jail soon. Neither of them realize the trouble that they are in or they are in denial.

It's such a shame that a beautiful child, who wanted so much love and attention, only gets it after she is murdered and dismembered.

 

[catnron]

Well I watched it. I really want to believe him, but I can't.

I believe him, I really believe that he did not know, Also he may have been next on her list.If he was guilty LE would have him right in a cell next love bride.EB may can fool a lot of people but she will not fool LE, I would bet on that.

 

[Bia.]

I don't see anything that concludes EB could not or was not capable of doing this all by herself. I do think it is a possibility, but I also think it is possible there is someone else involved and simply cannot get a grip on if that was AB or, someone else, as yet unknown. Dogs hitting both vehicles though is a big hmmm for me I admit. I am on for EB being the one who murdered Zahra though.

BBM

I think the time frame (3 hours, according to when AB last saw Z and when the cars were seized) is enough for me to believe she couldn't possibly act alone. I think Z was dead and the act was done days before they came up with the kidnapping plan.

It's tough because we really don't know what type of man AB is. We've heard all the horror stories about EB, but what about Adam? We know he tried to run people off the road, that shows he may be capable of murder. He may have a secret violent side that nobody knew about.

I just don't feel in my heart EB acted alone and AB didn't notice one strange thing. Also, the fact that he chopped things up for a living, doesn't sit well with me either. I suppose with his line of work he would know how to go about dismembering things.

 

[Allusonz]

Just some thoughts
Usually you have a number of gel liners in varying degrees of thickness to help with the increase/decrease in the prosthetic fitting, daughter has 10 ie. fluid retention / swelling
Defense motion = strategic manoeuvring
Obtaining significant evidence- I suspect they may not of known exactly what they were going to find just the area/place to look. Whether this compromises the investigation etc do not know possibilities
are endless
The previous address and Monty Carlo keep coming back to me
The very careful wording of the press conference especially the swabs of both bio parents unless needed something to fill in at the PC
I seriously doubt they had access to the hickory address or would bother with the landfill. I would suspect the previous address or another location
Hardware of the prosthesis contains the means of the identification not the liners i.e. socket joints, daughters new joints actually come from Germany
AB's defense taking own pictures of various places around the hickory address means AB defense focusing on specifics as were there for relatively short time
Believe EB could of done this probable though had help. Part that has me is that only was person was seen sitting on steps not two
Dogs hitting on both vehicles if EB was in both one to dispose one to plant letter and gasoline
So far all about EB from what i see not AB at least this portion. Could be waiting on results MOO

 

[pip]

I think AB was 100% involved, in all aspects, and he is the master manipulator in this case. I think it's weird he shaved his stash and beard, almost like he wanted to try to look like a young, innocent man. The lack of emotion, tears, anger is also another red flag. While I know there is a shock factor when finding out your loved one is dead, there is also some sort of emotion. When my father died unexpectedly I was in complete shock. I also cried until I could no longer. This was every day, for months.

AB is sitting back thinking he is going to go "home", just like EB thinks she will be getting out of jail soon. Neither of them realize the trouble that they are in or they are in denial.

It's such a shame that a beautiful child, who wanted so much love and attention, only gets it after she is murdered and dismembered.

I agree. I think he is equally involved. Drug fiends, poor life skills, obviously very poor parenting skills...(if any). The look I see on his face is a 'deer in the headlights'.. He sees the train coming down the tracks right towards him and he is stuck. No passport, nowhere to run, nowhere to hide..He is just following his attorneys instructions and cues. His mum doesn't get 'mother of the year' award either, IMO.

 

[catnron]

I have this little tid bit that floats around and leaves then comes back for me. AF stated her mother was having an online affair. I wondered if AB found out about this. Said I'll get a job, take care of you, and we can make this work. EB didn't want that. She wanted the new guy. I'm not saying I've accepted that speculation. I'm just saying it keeps floating around with me.

Great post