Adult Entertainment Industry: Case related

[Tugela]

Apparently you have NEVER seen how a heroin addict operates.
She was an ADDICT. ADDICTS do things that are UNREASONABLE to a normal person. That is part of the addict way. I have been one myself (Clean for 8 years now.) I have also lost 2 family members to heroin. I KNOW FIRST HAND what a drug addict will do for their fix. I've done it, I've seen it, I've THANKFULLY recovered from it. Not many do! I live a happy lifestyle now, but I know that when I was an addict, I was going places and doing things you couldn't pay me $1,000,000 to do now. And you know why I did it?

TO get high. How I got there didn't matter... As long as I made it to my destination.

Just because she was an addict doesn't mean she was desperate. There are many addicts in the escort world, by and large they are not taking reckless risks though.

 

[Samantha Spade]

Tuggela,
There are drug abusers and then there are addicts.
Drug abuse often leads to addiction. and there are some drugs that typically grab you by the throat and hold you hostage by the first use. heroin seems to be one of those drugs.

 

[Justiceforever]

Just because she was an addict doesn't mean she was desperate. There are many addicts in the escort world, by and large they are not taking reckless risks though.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction


Classic hallmarks of addiction include: impaired control over substances/behavior, preoccupation with substance/behavior, continued use despite consequences, and denial.

*Habits and patterns associated with addiction are typically characterized by immediate gratification (short-term reward), coupled with delayed deleterious effects (long-term costs).

 

[LINative13]

Just because she was an addict doesn't mean she was desperate. There are many addicts in the escort world, by and large they are not taking reckless risks though.

The girl was selling her body for christ sakes! How much more desperate do you have to get.

Come on!

 

[Justiceforever]

The girl was selling her body for christ sakes! How much more desperate do you have to get.

Come on!

The money to be made can become a sort of addiction in and of itself. Money can't by happiness but it sure can buy things that make you happy! Money however is not God and you can have material things one minute and lose it all the next. The key is to learn to be happy with or without.

 

[shadowraiths]

One thing that is important to remember, imho, is that these girls lived high risk lifestyles. What does that mean? Basically women who engage in sex for sale are at increased risk of becoming victims of violence. This is not a moral or value judgement. It does not make them less human. It does not make them less deserving of a better life or more deserving of being harmed. It just is what it is.

That being said, from my understanding, this thread is about discussing the risks the victims may have taken that goes above and beyond known daily risks. What could compel them to step outside the safety nets they've constructed.

While I lean toward drugs as a root cause, that requires large amounts of money to buy, someone raised the possibility of them being set up by their pimps. Seems like that could make sense if the pimp says, "you don't need your phone, this time."

Would love to hear from people who are in, or have been in, this profession, to let us know if this is even a viable path to consider.

 

[Redbird]

With all the wild theories being considered now people seem to have lost sight of the fact that LE says all the 10 murders were committed by the same person. When peoplle propose different killers put the bodies in approximately the same location, I get this image of killers coming and going and waving to each other. :seeya:

 

[LINative13]

Yes it may be fast cash for these girls but lets be real about ACs situation. She was not taking the money and socking it away. She was not buying Piccasso paintings, or building houses.....she was buying dope. So she was selling her body to buy dope. She tried to get clean but could not. Another indirect victim of the disease of addiction.

These are facts. No single persons agenda or motivation can change these facts.

I would wager that if she was clean she would not have been selling her body.

 

[Justiceforever]

I am responding to a question asked in another thread by genericwhitemale.

While we're on the topic, I have a question for you JF. When you were out on a "gig" with a client, would they often, before or after, use drugs, and if so did you ever participate in such activities with the client? No judgement on my part. I'm just curious. It's all part of something that's been rolling around in my head.

Yes there were times that a client would use drugs while I was on a call. Did I? Abosolutly not! My drug of choice back in the day was weed and alcohol. I would never smoke a joint passed to me nor drink a drink given to me.

I didn't trust it. No thank you! Which is probably one of the reasons that I am here to talk about it. It was business not pleasure...I had to be on point.

That's just me though. If you are asking if it happens in the business of course it does. When you have a drug addiction it has got to blur your boundaries sadly.

 

[genericwhitemale]

I am responding to a question asked in another thread by genericwhitemale.



Yes there were times that a client would use drugs while I was on a call. Did I? Abosolutly not! My drug of choice back in the day was weed and alcohol. I would never smoke a joint passed to me nor drink a drink given to me.

I didn't trust it. No thank you! Which is probably one of the reasons that I am here to talk about it. It was business not pleasure...I had to be on point.

That's just me though. If you are asking if it happens in the business of course it does. When you have a drug addiction it has got to blur your boundaries sadly.

That is what I was looking for. Thank you for answering.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Justiceforever]

That is what I was looking for. Thank you for answering.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No prob Bob!

 

[CriminalMinds]

No prob Bob!

====thread bump======

 

[Daisy1975]

Hello all. I am new to this thread but not to Websleuths. I have worked as a ASP-Adult Service Provider off and on since late 2002. I listened to a podcast about this case last night and it really bothered me (for obvious reasons) and I wanted to come here and read more. Obviously I have a lot of threads and information to dig through, but I wanted to offer my voice as well - as a woman who has and does still work in this industry.

I just also wanted to state up front a few scenarios/beliefs I think about this case.

- I believe that these women may have known this client from a previous appointment(s) and felt safe going with him to his residence or whatever location he ended their lives at. From prior behavior they believed him to be harmless. He had a non-threatening appearance and may have said he was married. Or he could have been single and had a nice home where he had entertained working girls before. I read that one woman they found had her toddler with her. This is the most heartbreaking part of the story for me. I cannot understand her judgment being so impared unless she was using drugs and/or she knew this man and felt he would not harm her or her child.

- He may also have seen other providers successfully and they provided a reference for him. Many girls these days require references and there are websites set up where girls may give clients a "thumbs up." It is very possible he may be a member of such a site and this led these women to believe he was "safe" and let down their guard.

- These women needed money very badly and saw this individual blindly with no screening. They had not met him before but were lured by his promise of money. I personally do not know any escorts who see clients this way, but I know there are some out there that do. It's possible that these women all had that in common and that unfortunately led to their deaths.

I still do not see how the police have not been able to generate some solid leads (or maybe they have - I am still reading up) by these women's cell phone and email records.

I think this killer still lives in the area and most likely still visits with working girls. I think he owns a nice home and is comfortable with the area where the bodies were dumped. He probably has a very non-threatening appearance and might even come off as a "white knight," "I want to help out working girls" kind of personality. I tend to think he is not married because most married men would not be having escorts visit them in their home, however I have known married men who did this when they had a wife who traveled a lot for her job. If he was married and vocally told women this, that might go a long way in them trusting him and not seeing him as a stalker or dangerous client.

Anyway, sorry to ramble - just my thoughts for the moment.

Daisy1975

 

[Theforeigner]

Hello all. I am new to this thread but not to Websleuths. I have worked as a ASP-Adult Service Provider off and on since late 2002. I listened to a podcast about this case last night and it really bothered me (for obvious reasons) and I wanted to come here and read more. Obviously I have a lot of threads and information to dig through, but I wanted to offer my voice as well - as a woman who has and does still work in this industry.

I just also wanted to state up front a few scenarios/beliefs I think about this case.

- I believe that these women may have known this client from a previous appointment(s) and felt safe going with him to his residence or whatever location he ended their lives at. From prior behavior they believed him to be harmless. He had a non-threatening appearance and may have said he was married. Or he could have been single and had a nice home where he had entertained working girls before. I read that one woman they found had her toddler with her. This is the most heartbreaking part of the story for me. I cannot understand her judgment being so impared unless she was using drugs and/or she knew this man and felt he would not harm her or her child.

- He may also have seen other providers successfully and they provided a reference for him. Many girls these days require references and there are websites set up where girls may give clients a "thumbs up." It is very possible he may be a member of such a site and this led these women to believe he was "safe" and let down their guard.

- These women needed money very badly and saw this individual blindly with no screening. They had not met him before but were lured by his promise of money. I personally do not know any escorts who see clients this way, but I know there are some out there that do. It's possible that these women all had that in common and that unfortunately led to their deaths.

I still do not see how the police have not been able to generate some solid leads (or maybe they have - I am still reading up) by these women's cell phone and email records.

I think this killer still lives in the area and most likely still visits with working girls. I think he owns a nice home and is comfortable with the area where the bodies were dumped. He probably has a very non-threatening appearance and might even come off as a "white knight," "I want to help out working girls" kind of personality. I tend to think he is not married because most married men would not be having escorts visit them in their home, however I have known married men who did this when they had a wife who traveled a lot for her job. If he was married and vocally told women this, that might go a long way in them trusting him and not seeing him as a stalker or dangerous client.

Anyway, sorry to ramble - just my thoughts for the moment.

Daisy1975

Welcome Daisy1975

Great post!

 

[Daisy1975]

I suppose you might open up (if that's what you mean by private) about yourself to a client who is interested, talking is a great way to pass the time, and get paid for a second hour. "OOPS your hours up! Imagine that!"

When I was much more naive, I opened up to a few clients about my private life and who I am. I quickly learned this was a BIG mistake and didn't do it again. Some clients will still insist on asking you questions about your private life and interests and I just developed a script to tell them.

I have known girls over the years who developed, I felt, inappropriate "relationships" with their clients. One bought insurance from her client thus making him privy to much of her personal information - not to mention her identity. One had a client co-sign on a car for her, one used to have clients take her to the grocery store and places like Target and pick up the tab in exchange for services. She had small children and I just didn't think it was a good idea. Not to say that any of these men were monsters by any means, but you never know what someone could be hiding below the surface and why give them a direct path to be able to cause you harm?

I can't help but continue to think this John might have had this kind of relationship with some or all of these women and used it to gain their trust.

Again though I have so much reading to do and am still not as well versed on who all of these women were and what their circumstances were etc. I also just read that there were male victims? Is that correct? I thought I had read one male was found in women's clothing but were there more than one?

 

[Daisy1975]

While I have seen ads posted by men requesting partners to attend these types of events... or go to the sex clubs with them, Iow, how often do escorts encounter these type of requests?

I realize mine is a late response as I have just discovered this thread, but I personally have received this request MANY times. Only to swinger's clubs though - I have never been asked to attend a BDSM club. I have always declined as I do not personally do outcalls (appointments at the client's chosen location).

 

[Daisy1975]

In Colorado we have EO Boards - Escort Only Boards - where girls share information with one another in the effort to stay safe. Some allow girls to post information on clients with whom they have had incidents with - sometimes physical violence. I can only wonder (and assume considering its size) if NY has the same things (I apologize as I am not versed at all in the industry outside of Colorado). I wonder if there are girls out there who may have vital information and/or suspicions of someone they believe could have done this but haven't told anyone for the usual fears.

 

[Daisy1975]

One thing that is important to remember, imho, is that these girls lived high risk lifestyles. What does that mean? Basically women who engage in sex for sale are at increased risk of becoming victims of violence. This is not a moral or value judgement. It does not make them less human. It does not make them less deserving of a better life or more deserving of being harmed. It just is what it is.

You are correct - we come into contact with strangers in an intimate setting. That sets us apart from the rest of the female population as they encounter strangers each day, but not in the same setting.

That being said, from my understanding, this thread is about discussing the risks the victims may have taken that goes above and beyond known daily risks. What could compel them to step outside the safety nets they've constructed.

I've thought about this a lot. It is similar to the risks a girl may take that could lead to her getting arrested, whereas others of us have managed to stay below the radar and avoid LE because we are not willing to take those risks. I think as has already been stated they are under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol and are willing to take greater risks to get that next high. Or they are in such a desperate situation to earn money that the benefit seems to outweigh the risk. I personally cannot imagine any offer of money that would be good enough to abandon my personal security measures but I don't know what was going through these women's minds. I have known girls here that have seen clients I wouldn't let watch my cat as they wanted the $$ badly enough.

 

[CriminalMinds]

- I believe that these women may have known this client from a previous appointment(s) and felt safe going with him to his residence or whatever location he ended their lives at. From prior behavior they believed him to be harmless.

if i were to guess, i'd say yes to only 1 out of 4 of them, MBB---just a hunch based on how stuff seemingly went down....

 

[bessie]

It's against the rules to copy and paste posts from social media (message boards, web forums, reader comments, Facebook, Twitter, etc.)

You can reference a post and include a link so others can read it for themselves.

No link, no post.

Thanks.