GUILTY Afghanistan - US Soldier guns down 16 civilians, 2012 Kandahar massacre

[Jacie Estes]

We need to get out of Afghanistan now. All we are doing is sending soldiers over there tour after tour and driving them nuts. 11 years is enough in money and life.

NINE little kids. <snipped>

BBM I totally agree with you on this point. Our troops are doing quick turn arounds and multiple tours. When they come back home they don't always receive adequate care/counseling.

It's time for President Karzai to put his big boy panties on, grow a set and provide defense for his own country. IMHO

 

[Reader]

http://www.centurylink.net/news/rea...TEIDM00@news.ap.org>&_LT=MNEW_APN1DCCL1_UNEWS


According to U.S. and Afghan officials, Sunday's attack began around 3 a.m. in two villages in Panjwai district, a rural region outside Kandahar...........

U.S. officials said the shooter, identified as an Army staff sergeant, acted alone, leaving his base in southern Afghanistan and opening fire on sleeping families in two villages. Initial reports indicated he returned to the base after the shooting and turned himself in. He was in custody at a NATO base in Afghanistan.

The suspect, from Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Wash., was assigned to support a special operations unit of either Green Berets or Navy SEALs engaged in a village stability operation, said a U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the investigation is still ongoing.

Such operations are among NATO's best hopes for transitioning out of Afghanistan, pairing special operations troops with villagers chosen by village elders to become essentially a sanctioned, armed neighborhood watch.

Some residents said they believed there were multiple attackers, given the carnage.

"One man can't kill so many people. There must have been many people involved," Bacha Agha of Balandi village told The Associated Press. "If the government says this is just one person's act we will not accept it. ... After killing those people they also burned the bodies."

In a statement, Afghan President Hamid Karzai left open the possibility of more than one shooter. He initially spoke of a single U.S. gunman, then referred to "American forces" entering houses. The statement quoted a 15-year-old survivor named Rafiullah, who was shot in the leg, as telling Karzai in a phone call that "soldiers" broke into his house, woke up his family and began shooting them.

"This is an assassination, an intentional killing of innocent civilians and cannot be forgiven," Karzai said.


More at lengthy article...

 

[wfgodot]

Could well have been one soldier and probably was; however, as with the "lone nut" assassination theories, one should not immediately roll over and accept notions such as a "rogue" soldier being soley responsible for 16 deaths in two villages - especially when acceptance of such an idea may facilitate a larger falsehood.

Then there's this:

Killings Add to Worries at Soldier&#8217;s Home Base (NY Times)

JOINT BASE LEWIS-McCHORD, Wash. &#8212; It has been just four months since a military jury on this military base convicted the ringleader of a rogue Army unit that shot Afghans for sport.
---

much more at link above

 

[MsFacetious]

It's hard to comprehend.
This soldier is a husband and a father... and he killed women and children.
I know several people who are (reluctantly) stationed at this base.

There is a picture of one of the dead children on this first article, just to warn people.
This is probably graphic as well.


http://ktar.com/46/1117491/Afghans-express-skepticism-over-shooting-account

One woman opened a blue blanket with pink flowers to reveal the body of her 2-year-old child, who was wearing a blood-soaked shirt.

"Was this child Taliban? There is no Taliban here" said Gul Bushra. The Americans "are always threatening us with dogs and helicopters during night raids."

Dozens of villagers crowded the streets as minibuses and trucks carried away the dead to be washed for burial. One man used the edge of his brown shawl to wipe away tears.

Officials wearing white plastic gloves picked up bullet casings from the floor of a house and put them in a plastic bag.

An AP photographer saw 15 bodies in the two villages, some of them burned and other covered with blankets.
A young boy partially wrapped in a blanket was in the back of a minibus, dried blood crusted on his face and pooled in his ear.
His loose-fitting brown pants were partly burned, revealing a leg charred by fire.

It was unclear how or why the bodies were burned, though villagers showed journalists the blood-stained corner of a house where blankets and possibly bodies were set on fire.


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2017727939_afghan12.html?prmid=4939

Residents of two villages in the Panjwai District of Kandahar province described a terrifying string of attacks in which the soldier, who had walked more than a mile from his base, tried door after door, eventually breaking in to kill within three separate houses.
At the first, the gunman gathered 11 bodies, including those of four girls younger than 6, and set fire to them, villagers said.

-----------------------------

However, military officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, told the Los Angeles Times it was believed the soldier had suffered a mental breakdown.

"It appears he walked off post and later returned and turned himself in," said Lt. Cmdr. James Williams, a military spokesman. The NATO force said the assailant acknowledged he had inflicted an unspecified number of casualties during the shootings, which began about 3 a.m.

-----------------------------------------

"All the family members were killed, the dead put in a room, and blankets were put over the corpses and they were burned," said a neighbor who rushed to one house after the soldier had left. "We put out the fire."

 

[kline]

It would be wise to keep in mind too that combat stress is certainly a factor the military is made up of as wide a spectrum of individuals as any other segment of society and there are many reasons why a person might enlist in the military.
Some are selfess noble folks who want to serve our country
Some for economic reasons or personal situations that made enlistment the best option.
Some people can endure the situation of their duty in the middle east some cant.
Some have substance abuse issues some dont.
Im sure most of our service people have their heads and hearts in the right place but you can be sure there are a percentage of immature sadistic punks as well.
You cant paint the whole military with the same brush because of the actions of a few and those few in this case need to be prosecuted to the full extent of Military Law.

 

[otto]

About all that's certain right now is that this is an act of terrorism committed by U.S. forces against the people of an allied nation. While we in the U.S. have apparently accepted the military account of this being the responsibility of one soldier, other nations are not quite sold on the veracity of that account at this time.

Company line? One rogue (press's word - undoubtedly reporting what's coming out from official sources) soldier:

I read today that the place where this happened was a model city set up by Canadians where some people were so friendly with Canadian soldiers that they were invited in for tea. The model was so successful that it had spread to surrounding towns. Is my understanding correct in that Canadians withdrew and Americans took over this calm city ... and now 9 children are shot dead in the street for no reason? 16 people in total?

I do think that this is an unprovoked murderous act and that the families of the victims should have justice. That justice is not based on the laws of some other country, but based on the laws of that city. The murderer was not working as a soldier when he killed 16 people, he was off duty and supposedly drunk. There are also reports that more than one soldier was involved. It is unlikely that he was (or they were) suffering some sort of delusion, as the army must have checks in place to ensure that deluded, drunk, off-duty soldiers are not running around shooting young girls.

At some point, as the US is transitioning power back to Afghanistan and Iraq, the US should also relinquish control of their justice systems. This seems like the perfect case to try in Afghanistan ... just to demonstrate to everyone that autonomy is the ultimate objective.

"The community of Belanday, where a rogue American army sergeant reportedly began a murderous spree Sunday, killing 16 Afghans including several girls, was one of Canada's model villages in Kandahar, where Canadian and later American troops lived in small groups in proximity to the local population and invested tens of thousands of hours between 2009 and 2011 to win their confidence."

...

"Reports from the scene were confusing and contradictory Sunday with some indicating the shooting by a lone U.S. soldier had begun in Belanday before spreading to two other villages to the north in Panjwaii District. The entire region was part of Canada&#8217;s area of military operations until the Harper government withdrew its combat forces last summer"

...

"When I was in the area several times last year where Sunday&#8217;s shootings occurred, I witnessed Canadian and American soldiers going on long joint foot patrols, patiently making friends with local children in the narrow warren of streets. Through such encounters International Security Assistance Force troops got to know their parents, or, at least, their fathers a bit. It was an approach which eventually paid big dividends but that may be reversed after Sunday&#8217;s tragic event.

&#8220;By the time all Canadian forces had left it was quiet because it had become a toxic environment for the Taliban,&#8221; Vance said."

http://www.canada.com/news/Fisher+s...rred+Canada+model+villages/6285551/story.html

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Now CNN is reporting the guy was seen leaving the base and a group of soldiers were sent to find him.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Afghan troops spotted the soldier leaving his combat outpost around 3 a.m. Sunday and notified their American counterparts, according to the NATO-led force. The U.S. military did an immediate headcount, found the soldier was missing and dispatched a patrol to go look for him. The patrol met him as he returned and took him into custody.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/12/world/asia/afghanistan-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I don't think that story is true. They would have instantly sent out a patrol and not waited for a headcount. They are a defensive base.

 

[otto]

I don't think that story is true. They would have instantly sent out a patrol and not waited for a headcount. They are a defensive base.

Something is wrong with the story that is being published about the shooting.

 

[Peliman]

I'm not so sure the were dispatched immediately after being notified. Generally dusk to dawn operations are not made by wheeled vehicles on roads. Foot patrols and tracked vehicles are normally off the beaten path.

Each day when dawn breaks, usually a road patrol clears all roads for mines and IUD's placed during the night before clearing military traffic.

Second, just because the base got a radio or phone call, they don't know if an ambush is awaiting. I imagine it took time to get verification and clearance to leave the safe area by vehicle or foot patrol.

 

[MsFacetious]

This is my fear... how many more soldiers are going to die over there because of what this one soldier did? lease:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/12/world/asia/afghanistan-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Taliban vow revenge for U.S. soldier's shooting rampage

The Afghan Taliban vowed Monday to exact revenge for the killing of 16 civilians, allegedly by an American soldier who went on a house-to-house shooting rampage Sunday in two villages near his base.

Afghanistan's parliament, meanwhile, demanded a public trial for the suspect, who is accused of killing nine children, three women and four men.

--------------------------

He is in his mid-30s and has served several tours in Iraq, but he is on his first deployment to Afghanistan, said a U.S. military official, who asked not to be named talking about an ongoing investigation.

He arrived in Afghanistan in January, the source said.

----------------------------

The attacker's mental stability and medical history are among "the things the investigators are looking at," said Capt. John Kirby, a spokesman for the NATO-led force.

"This was a soldier who had been in the Army some time, had deployed before." Kirby said. "This wasn't his first deployment. But with respect to specific motives, we just can't say right now."

-------------------------------

The suspect will not face punishment under the Afghan justice system, said Pentagon spokesman George Little.
"The U.S. military has strong means to address wrongdoing," he said. "There is an agreement in place with the government of Afghanistan, so that the investigation -- and when appropriate, prosecution -- will be done through U.S. military channels."

 

[LadyL]

he should face punishment under the Afghan justice system!

he murdered innocent civilians! he murdered children! someone burned the bodies! (why - were they attempting to hide evidence???)

maybe he was alone in his murderous rampage ... maybe not
maybe someone helped him burn the bodies ... maybe not

everyone involved should face justice by the Afghan people IMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

An official told ABC News that the soldier has suffered a mild traumatic brain injury (TBI) in the past, either from hitting his head on the hatch of a vehicle or in a car accident. He went through the advanced TBI treatment at Fort Lewis and was deemed to be fine.

He also underwent mental health screening necessary to become a sniper and passed in 2008. He had routine behavioral health screening after that and was cleared, the official said.
White House on Afghan Deaths: 'Tragic and Shocking' Watch Video
Civilians Killed in US Soldier's Rampage Watch Video
U.S. Service Member Detained in Afghanistan Watch Video

When the soldier returned from his last deployment in Iraq he had difficulty reintegrating, including marital problems, the source told ABC News, . But officials concluded that he had worked through those issues before deploying to Afghanistan.

http://abcnews.go.com/International...injury-marital/story?id=15900289#.T15LnXorxOW


A mild "Traumatic Brain Injury"? This sounds like pure nonsense.

Trouble reintegrating? That is very serious. My bro-inlaw had that coming back from Vietnam and they had to lock him up for 2 months getting him use to civilization.

This guy should have never been put back in combat.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I'm not so sure the were dispatched immediately after being notified. Generally dusk to dawn operations are not made by wheeled vehicles on roads. Foot patrols and tracked vehicles are normally off the beaten path.

Each day when dawn breaks, usually a road patrol clears all roads for mines and IUD's placed during the night before clearing military traffic.

Second, just because the base got a radio or phone call, they don't know if an ambush is awaiting. I imagine it took time to get verification and clearance to leave the safe area by vehicle or foot patrol.

I don't know about it all yet but this is a defensive fort with walls and guards and should be just as hard to get out of as in. Was this a gate guard reporting him leaving? I don't know but it is not adding up.

 

[nursebeeme]

he should face punishment under the Afghan justice system!

he murdered innocent civilians! he murdered children! someone burned the bodies! (why - were they attempting to hide evidence???)

maybe he was alone in his murderous rampage ... maybe not
maybe someone helped him burn the bodies ... maybe not

everyone involved should face justice by the Afghan people IMO

I disagree that he should face punishment under the Afghan system.

What he did is horrible. There is no excuse of it.

Is it a reflection of everyone wearing the uniform? In my opinion absolutely not.

Will the military take care of him and punish him to the fullest extent of the law? Absolutely they will.

How do I have confidence in this? I am married to a us army officer and have seen the way the army works for nearly 20 years.

Again, my thoughts and prayers go to all of the victims and their loved ones.

I honestly did not want to chime in on this thread but need to speak up a bit for the rest of the military folks who do NOT behave this way...which is the majority of us.

This was a sentinel event.. a truly horrible tragedy..

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I disagree that he should face punishment under the Afghan system.

What he did is horrible. There is no excuse of it.

Is it a reflection of everyone wearing the uniform? In my opinion absolutely not.

Will the military take care of him and punish him to the fullest extent of the law? Absolutely they will.

How do I have confidence in this? I am married to a us army officer and have seen the way the army works for nearly 20 years.

Again, my thoughts and prayers go to all of the victims and their loved ones.

I honestly did not want to chime in on this thread but need to speak up a bit for the rest of the military folks who do NOT behave this way...which is the majority of us.

This was a sentinel event.. a truly horrible tragedy..

Here is the kicker though. He is in NATO hands and they will decide who gets custody of him. One hell of a situation to put our soldiers in.

 

[nursebeeme]

It is not surprising that NATO has custody, as they are in charge of the ISAF.

Yes, it is one hell of a situation that our troops have been put in.

 

[gngr~snap]

Lewis-McChord in Washington state most troubled base in military?

There are and have been some major problems there recently. Sadly I am not surprised in the least. It has affected my family personally- and that is all I will say.


"Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state this year developed a reputation as the most troubled base in the military. As the year wound down, the Army was conducting a top-to-bottom review of the 5th Stryker Brigade amid reports of misconduct from a wide swath of its soldiers and a failure of its leaders to curtail the issues."

http://www.stripes.com/joint-base-lewis-mcchord-rocked-by-scandal-1.130065
Another story
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...killings-army-base-troubled-article-1.1037459

 

[Peliman]

I don't know about it all yet but this is a defensive fort with walls and guards and should be just as hard to get out of as in. Was this a gate guard reporting him leaving? I don't know but it is not adding up.

I'm not sure about which base he came from or if Kandahar base is surrounded by walls. Here's some more info I've just read but not digested yet.

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. soldier who allegedly attacked and killed 16 Afghan civilians Sunday may have experienced a relatively rare state of mental derangement characterized by a blind killing rage, a disregard of pain and danger, and a total disconnection from his fellow troops, military mental health specialists said.

He had served three tours in Iraq, they said, and arrived in southern Afghanistan in January to help support a small special forces team in Kandahar.

Officials at the U.S.-led military command in Afghanistan said Monday they had detained a lone suspect in the shooting, a U.S. Army staff sergeant, a conventional soldier rather than one of the highly trained, elite special forces or Green Berets with whom he was assigned

But Shay speculated that the shooter may have felt isolated from the special forces soldiers with whom he shared the small outpost. He may not have gotten enough sleep because of isolation and stress. Both factors, as well as the death of close comrades during past deployments, can contribute to violent outbursts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/12/afghanistan-killing-us-soldier_n_1339775.html

It's still sounding like "Combat stress reaction" to me, of course it will take time to sort him out.