AFTER the hearing - who do you find more credible?

[Poppyflower]

I totally agree with you and i think the word "assault" is thrown around too easily. I do not consider Ms. Ford to have been assaulted- she was groped; she was not raped.
There are many women who really have been raped and sexually assaulted and that is a horse of a different color than what happened to Ms. Ford IMO

I would like to repeat...

Anytime someone touches you in a sexual way, without your consent, it is sexual assault. It is NEVER, EVER, EVER ok to touch someone in a sexual way if they do not want to be touched.

Keep your hands and parts off of people unless they want them there.

It has NEVER been ok to touch anyone in a sexual way when they didn't want to be touched in that way. NEVER in history. It has never been ok.

Groping someone against their will is sexual assault.

Do not grope people that do not want to be groped. It is sexual assault.

 

[LietKynes]

Snipped and bolded for focus.

Respectfully ... whaaaaaat?!?

This sort of extreme exaggeration only sucks all the wind out of arguments, deflating them, because people start arguing against their own black-white misrepresentations instead of the actual issue.

The concern isn't about whether he assaults "every woman he comes across."

Never has been, imo.

I'm confused as to where that came from. Help me understand.

MOO and such.

Should have clarified... I was posting hypothetically.
Bleh.
I'm not proposing that this man is a predator , so sorry if it came across like that. (That would be exaggerating)

I'm curious what was discovered in earlier FBI investigations of Kavanaugh.
I believe there were earlier investigations.
Shouldn't there be a 'freedom of information act' in regards to what the FBI uncovers ?

 

[LietKynes]

I would be very uncomfortable if I had to cast a vote because I have no idea. I found Dr. Ford very credible and cried with her and I also found Kavanaugh credible and got teary watching him choke up when speaking about his daughters.

I was really surprised by his interaction with Klobuchar. I was surprised that he wouldn’t answer her and I found that to be characteristic of his temperament. I was also surprised that he wouldn’t agree to an FBI investigation.

BBM

The FBI did not investigate him yet ?

Some (possibly not credible ones) msm news sites stated that the FBI has done background checks on Kavanaugh.

Supposedly if they had found that he was (for instance) a heavy drinker --- he'd have been flagged as a security risk and never would've been nominated in the first place.
So it's possible he passed some earlier background checks ? Or maybe not ?
Just curious.

 

[LietKynes]

Cariis obviously made a typo. We're discussing serious allegations of sexual assault.

And you're wrong in stating the first thing a "lady" would do is report it to "name and shame the attacker."

Proof:

Crime Reports

• Rape is the most under-reported crime; 63% of sexual assaults are not reported to police (m)
• The prevalence of false reporting is low between 2% and 10%. For example, a study of eight U.S. communities, which included 2,059 cases of sexual assault, found a 7.1% rate of false reports (i). A study of 136 sexual assault cases in Boston found a 5.9% rate of false reports (h). Researchers studied 812 reports of sexual assault from 2000-2003 and found a 2.1% rate of false reports (g).

Proof:

Unfounded reports:

An unfounded report is a case that is investigated and found to be either false or baseless. The ‘unfounded’ classification is often confused with false allegations, in part because the definitions may seem similar. For example, unfounded cases include those that law enforcement believes do not meet the legal criteria for rape. It does not mean that some form of sexual assault may not have occurred, but only that from the legal perspective, in that jurisdiction, the case does not meet the legal criteria, or it is “baseless.”

• False report: A false report is a reported crime to a law enforcement agency that an investigation factually proves never occurred.

• Baseless report: A baseless report is one in which it is determined that the incident does not meet the elements of the crime, but is presumed truthful. Similarly, "unsubstantiated report" terminology is not generally used for UCR purposes, but is often used in regular language and child abuse reporting. To be unsubstantiated, a report must “provide insufficient evidence to determine whether or not crime occurred.” ​

Emph. mine

Re. the bolded bit : Respectfully disagree -- I think that many responsible women do just that -- although the track record for such reports being treated seriously is abysmally low. Leading to many women staying silent.

The fact that many crimes aren't treated seriously can result in a case being reported wrongly and it's as if the woman is punished for reporting it in the first place.

Imagine if someone is reporting a crime and it's brushed off... resulting in the report being thrown out or never filed.

Your information verifies this and is helpful. I'm going to look it up via the links.

That is what every victim should do , and I'm thinking the lack of law enforcement in taking this seriously is what results in fewer case going on record.

What was that movie with Jodi Foster about the lady who was attacked in a bar and she went to the hospital to be treated and also contacted law enforcement asap; and they all brushed her off ?
But the movie-- based on a true story-- showed why few criminal cases are ever logged into police reports.

It's a sad world !

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

BBM

The FBI did not investigate him yet ?

Some (possibly not credible ones) msm news sites stated that the FBI has done background checks on Kavanaugh.

Supposedly if they had found that he was (for instance) a heavy drinker --- he'd have been flagged as a security risk and never would've been nominated in the first place.
So it's possible he passed some earlier background checks ? Or maybe not ?
Just curious.

He might have been. Who knows.

Hundreds of thousands of pages of documentation were withheld or didn't actually get to the committee until the night before the nomination vote was supposed to happen.

ETA sources

White House Withholds 100,000 Pages of Judge Brett Kavanaugh’s Records

The story behind the withheld documents of the Kavanaugh hearing

Democrats raise alarm after 42K Kavanaugh documents released night before hearing

Dem senator: Confidential documents would 'strongly bolster' argument against Kavanaugh's nomination

 

[LietKynes]

He might have been. Who knows.

Hundreds of thousands of pages of documentation didn't actually get to the committee until the night before the nomination vote was supposed to happen.

Wow. Talk about rushing someone through to a post in government.
No wonder there are problems.
I hate to think what the FBI has hidden, deleted, or redacted.

Lost some faith in this investigative agency long ago when (then president) Clinton fired the head of the FBI. If a president cannot trust this institution --how can the public ??

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Wow. Talk about rushing someone through to a post in government.
No wonder there are problems.
I hate to think what the FBI has hidden, deleted, or redacted.

Lost some faith in this investigative agency long ago when (then president) Clinton fired the head of the FBI. If a president cannot trust this institution --how can the public ??

Personally, I think the FBI has an important role. It's not all bad or all great all the time, imo.

 

[LietKynes]

Personally, I think the FBI has an important role. It's not all bad or all great all the time, imo.

Thanks for the sources. I have to sign off here, but am going to do some reading before bed !

 

[Tripod]

He might have been. Who knows.

Hundreds of thousands of pages of documentation were withheld or didn't actually get to the committee until the night before the nomination vote was supposed to happen.

ETA sources

White House Withholds 100,000 Pages of Judge Brett Kavanaugh’s Records

The story behind the withheld documents of the Kavanaugh hearing

Democrats raise alarm after 42K Kavanaugh documents released night before hearing

Dem senator: Confidential documents would 'strongly bolster' argument against Kavanaugh's nomination

Kavanaugh has had 6 FBI background checks over the years. This will be the 7th. Even though some documents ( haven't read the links yet, so thanks for them!) weren't released, which certainly is allowed, it's my understanding that Judge Kavanaugh has had more records and documents and info supplied to the committee than either any SC nominee in history, or all SC nominees combined, in the past. Open to correction!

 

[RBQ]

Interesting credentials

blasey - PubMed - NCBI

 

[2Hope4]

Complete embarrassment to the USA! Did anyone watch all the testimonies today? If so, how can anyone not see that the issue was known about for WEEKS before it was leaked to the media. YET, the 3 people that had the letter claim they didn't release the letter... so who did? AND it has been investigated! An investigation that the democrats refused to participate in, refused to ask any questions to Kavanaugh during that investigation! So screaming for an investigation, when THEY are the ones that are suppose to be investigating and yet refuse to do so! WHY? That's the question, WHY? Because the opportunity has been there. Yet, nothing was done.

I wonder why he is such a huge threat to those that oppose him. It's one thing to disagree with someone, quite another to attack someone in an attempt to ruin their family, their career, their lives.

 

[TTF14]

I wonder why he is such a huge threat to those that oppose him.

RSBM.

Roe vs. Wade.

 

[neesaki]

RSBM.

Roe vs. Wade.

I have heard this as well, was wondering if it’s true , or an unfounded fear?

I’m a moderate conservative, mostly fiscal though. I’m not super pro abortion, but not anti abortion either, and would prefer the government stay out of my personal life.

 

[bwt42]

My guess is if the FBI finds no evidence of sexual assault, no minds while change on this thread or the Senate.

 

[simba16]

The FBI investigation is a fraud. NBC news is reporting that Trump has given FBI a list of witnesses they "can" investigate, probably those who would corroborate Kavanaugh story. They cannot subpoena certain records, etc. So like a degree from Trump University the investigation is a fraud and the American people should not fall for this scam.

 

[kimlynn]

The FBI investigation is a fraud. NBC news is reporting that Trump has given FBI a list of witnesses they "can" investigate, probably those who would corroborate Kavanaugh story. They cannot subpoena certain records, etc. So like a degree from Trump University the investigation is a fraud and the American people should not fall for this scam.

Well you know what kind of voter Trump has said he likes...some will fall for it.
As soon as I heard limited scope I knew what was afoot. IMO

 

[bwt42]

Well you know what kind of voter Trump has said he likes...some will fall for it.
As soon as I heard limited scope I knew what was afoot. IMO

I thought limited scope referred to investigating only those charges already made. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[neesaki]

I thought limited scope referred to investigating only those charges already made. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, IIRC, that’s what was stated from the beginning.

 

[kimlynn]

I thought limited scope referred to investigating only those charges already made. Correct me if I'm wrong.

As always anything you read or hear in this administration changes day by day or within hours.
Earlier today I read that the assault on Ford and Ramirez would be investigated,which leaves out the claim by Swetnick.
Also any drinking issues in regard to Kavanaugh wouldn't be investigated.
The administration said this was a choice made by the Senate. The article reported the order came from the WH.
Just now reading in the other thread that Trump denied that the scope would be limited. IMO

 

[jjenny]

He wasn't really answering a lot of the questions, was he? Just talking about something else. So how can I find his testimony credible? Credible would be actually answering questions that are asked.