AK - Samantha Koenig, 18, Anchorage, 01 Feb 2012 - #6

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Looks like arraignment set for 3pm!

Full docket text for document 7:
JDR ORDER: as to Israel Keyes re [6] Indictment, Arraignment set for 3/27/2012 at 03:00 PM in Anchorage Courtroom 4 before John D. Roberts. cc: USM, USPO and FPD (CJA Clerk). (CLW, COURT STAFF)
 
Do we know that this is a bank issued and not perhaps a prepaid card?

When did JK start "spending" the reward funds? Could they have been added to a card and then the withdrawals began? JMO
 
The cooperation of the card holder and the bank would be required for this, though. I guess if the police contacted me and said, we need you not to cancel your stolen card because a young girl's life is at stake, I might go along with this, but I know my spouse would not. The tax implications of having someone pump money into your account might be a consideration - as well as having your access code out there, since some people have multiple accounts. That's why the probability of it belonging to someone close to SK seems greater to me - not conclusive, just tipping the scales that way.

I'm sure that person A (the victim) would have been taken out of the scenario completely. LE would work directly with the bank and Person A would have no liability and his account in the eyes of the bank would have been closed. It would have been LE that asked the bank to keep the account open to track the thief and for this reason the account would have had to have been funded by someone. Either LE or JK?
I never thought the money that IK was receiving was that of person A. Nobody would report a theft of a credit card to LE then leave their bank account open after having their card stolen.
 
Do we know that this is a bank issued and not perhaps a prepaid card?

When did JK start "spending" the reward funds? Could they have been added to a card and then the withdrawals began? JMO

It was through a credit union. I doubt it was prepaid.

And that was my thought exactly as to why there was a delay in him using the card from the time it was stolen. It would have taken LE a bit of time to make arrangements with the bank. I believe the spending of the rewards fund was right around the time the card was first used.
 
Credit Union ONE has only 2 avenues of fee-free access in Alaska:
1. Denali Alaskan Federal Credit Union.
2. Costco wholesale co-op.

http://cuone.locatorsearch.com/searchresults.aspx

Kind of interesting then, that the reward fund was set up through a Denali Alaskan Federal CU account.

But that doesn't make sense, does it? That would mean the account was set up before the abduction.. Hmmm.
 
Kind of interesting then, that the reward fund was set up through a Denali Alaskan Federal CU account.

But that doesn't make sense, does it? That would mean the account was set up before the abduction.. Hmmm.

:what:

Are we allowed to talk about the comments regarding SK and JK staging a kidnapping once before? :eek:
 
The affidavit states that “Person A” reported to law enforcement that someone was going through his vehicle on 02/02/2012 at approximately 3:00am. After you Websleuthers began to speculate that it may have been JK who made the report, I went to www.crimemapping.com to see what I could find. The website lists a theft incident on 2/2/12 at 11:14am near the 4100 block of Spenard Rd. This area just happens to be right near JK’s home (as stated by JK in one of his original facebook letters directed toward CB).

http://www.crimemapping.com/map/ak/anchorage

Is there any way to look up open case numbers? The number for this theft near Spenard is 120005285.. Anyone know if it's possible to get details of the report? Probably not, I suppose..
 
Okay, first time poster here, but I’ve been following this case on Websleuths since thread #1. I am finally posting because I might have found a tool to use in figuring out who “Person A” is. It might be nothing, but with you guys/girls on the case I thought someone might be able to “connect the dots.” So, here goes….
The affidavit states that “Person A” reported to law enforcement that someone was going through his vehicle on 02/02/2012 at approximately 3:00am. After you Websleuthers began to speculate that it may have been JK who made the report, I went to www.crimemapping.com to see what I could find. The website lists a theft incident on 2/2/12 at 11:14am near the 4100 block of Spenard Rd. This area just happens to be right near JK’s home (as stated by JK in one of his original facebook letters directed toward CB).
I am not sure whether the time listed on the website is the time when the report was made, or the time when the police responded. But in any event, I found this info to be interesting. I know that JK has since denied that he was the one that made the report. But maybe you guys could look at some other known addresses (e.g., DT) and link them to other theft reports listed on the site. It might be impossible to narrow it down, but who knows.
BTW, if anyone does try to do some research on this website, I think it would be listed as a theft rather than a robbery, since a robbery is “a taking from the person of another.” The link to the Anchorage crimemap is below. You can refine the dates and narrow it down to a particular area by zooming in on the map.

http://www.crimemapping.com/map/ak/anchorage

Awesome first post and great sleuthing!!!! And....

:wagon:
 
I'm sure that person A (the victim) would have been taken out of the scenario completely. LE would work directly with the bank and Person A would have no liability and his account in the eyes of the bank would have been closed. It would have been LE that asked the bank to keep the account open to track the thief and for this reason the account would have had to have been funded by someone. Either LE or JK?

I hadn't looked at it that way. Legally speaking, could the cardholder simply be cut out of the equation? Accounts can be frozen by the bank either as part of court proceedings or where fraud is suspected, but would either LE or the bank have the authority to commandeer the account without consent? Having worked at a major financial institution, their legal departments are highly conservative unless there is revenue on the line somehow. Credit One might not have the largest legal staff, so maybe they could be more flexible. Another research subject... just what we need!
 
I think its so weird that there has been very little reporting done on IK's background. The news business is hurting right now and this is the biggest news story in Alaska. People are hungry for news and I'm sure ADN and the local tv stations are getting tons of eyeballs. How hard would it be for a reporter to go to Neah Bay? There was one report about his childhood babysitter. Usually people come out of the woodwork in these cases, maybe that says something.

I think it says a lot and unless there is reason to go anywhere people are not going to waste the time and money. It's an electronic age, there isn't much you can't get on the net. This site is testament to that. How often do you see things said here and read them in the news days later? lol
 
To me, the obvious reason the card wasn't cancelled was because LE believed the card thief could be the abductor so they were watching it for activity in hopes of that leading to him, which happened.

I don't know about the PIN number, but as TxLady2 points out, it's very plausible that the person it was stolen from had the PIN number written down where and the thief found it.

Now the other question is...why did Keyes not realize something was up when the card wasn't cancelled? We've seen criminals act irrationally many times before (and desperation probably factors in too).

But how could law enforcement have drawn a connection between the stolen card and Koenig's abduction before the person even had a chance to cancel their card? That seems way too quick to make that connection.

Also, why wouldn't the person call their bank first or at the very least shortly after filing a report (before law enforcement could actually follow up on the report)?

The only thing that makes sense to me is that Person A reported the card stolen after the fact. As someone else said, maybe Law Enforcement came to them and said "why is Israel Keyes using your card"? The person said "he didn't have my permission, he must have stole it, and oh yeah now that I think about it somebody rifled through my truck a while back." Law enforcement would probably know it was a BS story but it's enough to charge Keyes and see how things shake out.

Of course, if that theft dug up by AKSleuth is one in the same, then that would seem to mean that the theft was reported on 2/2.
 
ok, I can not fathom the idea that Ik 'stole" his own card. First, why make yourself known to the police? Every encounter I have had, they treat you as you are guilty, even if you are reporting something.
Second, he left that AM on vacation. so why would he report his own card stolen if he was going on vacation? How would he do it, from out of state? then not have any money for vacation?
I discredit that theory outright.

Next, as to why a card may have not been reported stolen to the bank. the fact that there is nothing in the account to steal in the first place. people are lazy. If there was $20,000 in there, then the person would certainly hurry up friday to cancel the card.
if there is $0 in it, or a tiny amount, even if the pin is on the card, then the motivation for someone to cancel it is near zero. especially for the type of people who have $0 to begin with.

Next, Person A could very well be JK. I beleive he had $0 in the account as well.
he "could" have been up, waiting for Sk to come home. He could have seen the robbery take place. it would be logical to assume that it was SK or a friend taking the card to get money for drugs. he, knowing there isn't any money in it anyways, doesn't report it stolen, because he believes it was Sk and he will confront her when he sees her.

Then, 2 days go by and he hasn't heard from her. He then calls her in as missing. Either at that time or later on, he says, "btw, someone broke into my vehicle and took my atm card." I didn't report it then because i thought it was SK who did it. Now I am concerened."

Still, there is $0 in the account... So, it gets padded with $5,000. (which earlier i add up the withdrawls and the balance and it is short $1 from $5,000).
They added the money to get the person to use it.
The timing of the "father is taking reward money" rumor is started, and so does the ATM use.(albeit, the reward is a different Cu then the bank card.)

person uses the card, undisguised in ANC twice, since no one knows who he is and he is leaving a day or two anyways.
Then uses it out of town. They keep track of its use. FBi puts out a "apb" on that card #...
texas pulls the guy over searches him and finds a card that he doesn't own. and with a name assocaited with a MP. Now, APD has a name and person. person matches the undisguised withdrawls in ANC.

APD then sends a unmarked car over to the area of the house to sit on it while a warrant is prepared. the next day the house is searched, the truck is found and searched, truck has blood, or evidence in it.
APD now has something to go on, asks to have him brought to ak, and seals the documents.


So, assumptions i make are. (also, the affadavit is NOT all inclusive, so one must assume they left out some of the most important facts, and only included some.....)
1. SK must have not come home before. That way it wouldn't be so wierd that she is not at work, and hasn't come home. JK is conditioned to this, and that is why he didn't report her missing at 10pm...
2. Ik kidnapped Sk for money, and to rob the coffee shop. She was broke. She had been beging her brother for $ for gas the day before. She doesn't have money, he says, get me money or i will kill you. SK knows her dads atm is or could be in the vehicle, and knows the pin. 9could also be duanes card, IDK). IK tries to use it that night, no money...( irecall somewhere else it has said the card was used that night.. that was either bad editing or a fact.)
3. APD beleived that she was still alive. Since, it may have been she has disappeared and gone on benders before, or not come home, they aren't sure she is dead or kidnapped etc. Then when the ATm gets used, they figure she is probably still around. giving the person the pin # to take out the money.
4. Once they get IK out of state, without SK, they are now not sure she is alive anymore.
5. "a" truck in the video is the same one released in pictures and found at IK house. One would assume that the video had a bad view, or a license plate or the ph # on the side was obscured, or they would know prior who owned it, and would have contacted the person prior. Or perhaps they did, and IK said he saw nothing. Either way, when they send a car to drive by, they see a truck that matches or could be the vehicle in the video, either the first time or again. But this time tying it to the person with the card, and the truck. by the time the video from the ANC withdrawls is obtained, IK is already gone. (i know that my card won't show a purchase until the next day), hence the reason he isn't apprehended on the first withdrawls. But now they know who he is, suspect him and issue the 'suspect" notification to other states, that is why his name popped up in Texas when they arrested him.
 
I am waiting on that additional information the FBI said they would release today... but I have things to do. I went to check the FBI site and there was nothing yet. I did find a press release on the Fairbanks drug bust, which reminded me of something I hesitated to mention before.

There was one little detail that I noticed in one story about the Anchorage handoff - apparently Donnell Johnson did not actually have the drugs in hand when he first met the courier because he was waiting for someone to get off work, the person who was holding the drugs. The actual exchange took place around 8:45 p.m.

http://www.adn.com/2012/01/28/2288945/cocaine-bust-among-biggest-ever.html


If I am reading that correctly, it indicates another involved person in Anchorage who was not arrested, someone who works evenings.

This story begins with a household in which three people work evenings. Again, that is hardly grounds for suspicion as a standalone fact - in a city of around 300,000, that would rate as statistically insignificant.

It's just another dot that may or may not connect, like AKSleuth111's contribution - a really good one, by the way! The little ski mask they use as a symbol for a robbery seemed a touch ironic under the circumstances.
 
I lost my train of thought, as I was interrupted for 2 hours since writing my previous post. luckily I copied it, because I got timed out and had to relog to post it.

Since there has been little to zero personal info on SK, i assume it would or could "pollute" public opinion. If the info was that SK was a drug addict, ran away before, owed someone money etc, then the public wouldn't be as inclined to finding her, as say someone who was in the church choir and rehabilitated homeless puppies. Because someone as trusthworthy and honest as the church girl would have instantly been reported missing, or at least her lack of returning home would be a huge clue to something being wrong instantly.

The lack of personal info, IMo, suggests that everything wasn't roses and green grass. Therefore, I assume that her failure to return home for 2 days or even notify someone about getting a ride, is not out of the norm. the lack of the personal info seems to be a hinderance or a disservice. Perhaps in the end it may not matter, or it could have. IDK. I maintain the opinion that there were troubles and prior actions lead to there being a few days in between. As well as JK running his mouth in the beginning saying he knew who had her, assuming she was on a bender or whatever, and threatining those people.

this case becomes more and more clear to me each day. While the theories keep getting crazier and crazier. There is enough stuff laid out to peice it together to get real close to what happened. it seems that some try to establish the hardest way rather than first disproving the easiest or most common sense way.

IMO, Ik picked CGE randomly. SK was a random.. that is what took so long to identify a suspect.
Ik needed money for some reason, and needed it right away.
The need for money led to a robbery, kidnapping, another robbery and IMO a homicide.
Ik left town that morning on a pre-booked vacation / trip. He did the ol snatch and grab. the timing would be perfect, and he would be 1,000's of miles away before anyone knew what happened.
While he is away, "gutfeeling" points out he appears to have robbed a bank.
he returns, still not a suspect, and uses the atm card just 2 days before he is to leave again for a "wedding". After the message that "hey, there is money in there now" is given.
he takes out $1,000, and leaves town.

it seems that his timing has been spot on, to elude the whole time. he benefited from the fact that 2 wks had gone by, APD thought she was a "hostage", had no suspects. He knows she is deceased, and that they can't be on to him...BOLDLY takes out the money, in ANC without disguise, knowing he can claim an alibi for the abduction night (on a flight with family), can say someone gave him the card for payment and the pin....If he is caught when he returns.

Dons a disguise to withdraw money out of state, figuring no one will ever assocaite it with him. The card be cloned at this point. But, hides so not to be seen.

his whole thing is foiled because texas pulls him over.....APD now has a name, suspect, etc, and it all unravels, and now he is in trouble for everything.... robberies, kidnapping, murder, bank robbery etc.


Not everything is as easy as CSi on CBS.
 
Has it been clarified that it was only one card being used?

This was my thinking on post #28, thread #6....thought I would copy it to here:

I am thinking IK had more than one card and one of those may have been SK's, or a card that was in the till at CGE used for purchases that were not on an account or "pay as you go" so to speak. I would guess that if this were the case he may not of withdrew the $1000 goal to increase the magnitude of the crime. (on the other accounts/cards) JMO ....and, of course, this is only my interpretation of the Lieutenants statement below.

“He may only be a witness in that, or he may not be involved in any way except using these credit cards, or he may be a suspect,” said Lieutenant Dave Parker. “The fact that he was in possession of these items....."

http://www.ktva.com/home/top-stories...143836966.html
 
Not everything is as easy as CSi on CBS.

I think you just made it that easy lol

It really does make sense, whole lot of randoms out there but very few crimes are planned to perfection.

By jove I think you've got it.

We will know soon enough - kinda/sorta ... so much has been hidden in this case I wouldn't mind betting a whole heap is sealed prior to a court case.
 
http://www.ktva.com/home/top-stories/Person-of-Interest-in-Koenig-Abduction-Back-in-Anchorage-144396285.html
UPDATE, 11:59 a.m. Tuesday: According to Anchorage police, the subject in the video of Samantha Koenig's abduction is not identifiable on the tape.

Interesting. So they can't have irrefutable proof it is Keyes on the tape. If they are tying him to the abduction based on the video it must be based on the disguise used, which would seem flimsy to me.

My opinions and thoughts...
 
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