Alec Baldwin fired prop gun, killing 1 on movie set, Oct 2021 #3

[MikeF]

I wonder if everyone on set was fingerprinted, or if that would even be legally allowable (unless voluntarily).

Should any fingerprints from set members or set visitors be on the gun - besides the people that should have been touching it (prop master, armourer, AD, actor)?

I've just been reading along so far (TY everyone for the various info and links) but I would assume they checked the prints, and if there were more than just the 4 people mentioned, and aren't on the list of people allowed to touch the weapons, there better be some explaining.

 

[katydid23]

Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the “Rust” set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.

Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges.

Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times.

“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”

'Rust' crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting

 

[Tiff23fr]

Mod Note:

What AB’s Spouse shares with the media can be discussed. However, she is not a POI in a case. That limits discussion of her to only what is stated in the MSM article. Several posts have been removed this evening for personal comments that fall outside that scope.

Thanks for helping us keep this thread in line with the TOS that cover all threads on the WS Platform.

Tiff

 

[mickey2942]

I was reviewing a few websites that provide "prop guns" for various purposes. Even those companies state unequivocally, that a prop gun should never be pointed at anyone.

Old West Blank Guns | Colt 1873 Replica Guns | Western Stage Props

And this gun, was NOT a "PROP GUN". I think that is an important distinction. Why was this gun even allowed on the set?

Many of the news articles are misleading, as is the title of this thread. This was a real gun. An antique. A .45 Colt Revolver.

Gun not thoroughly checked before Alec Baldwin fired fatal shot

Gun that killed Halyna Hutchins used for leisure shooting by crew the morning of the accident: report

 

[Luna20]

I am not arguing with that, although it doesn't appear to be uncommon on low budget movies such as Rust to combine these positions. I also don't know if it would have made any difference here. It doesn't appear to me she had enough knowledge to be the armorer. I still can't figure out if any certification is required to become an armorer. Did she need to take any tests to demonstrate her knowledge in ammo, guns, and so on?

A poster outside of the US stated on the previous thread said armorer certification and credentials are required for filming in their country. It should be the standard in firearms and hopefully that will be a positive take away from this tragedy.

 

[Marysmith]

I am not arguing with that, although it doesn't appear to be uncommon on low budget movies such as Rust to combine these positions. I also don't know if it would have made any difference here. It doesn't appear to me she had enough knowledge to be the armorer. I still can't figure out if any certification is required to become an armorer. Did she need to take any tests to demonstrate her knowledge in ammo, guns, and so on?

Good question - I’ve wondered the same as well.

 

[Marysmith]

So much for privacy. Now she's giving interviews

Hilaria Baldwin fears Alec will develop PTSD after Halyna Hutchins shooting

She can give interviews if she wants, can’t she? She’s not being disrespectful to the victim - in fact she’s being the opposite IMO.

 

[Luna20]

From @Dotta in the previous thread:

“In Poland a film armourer must pass a pyrotechnic exam and also a psychological test.

Police must issue a document that this person has never committed any crime.

Safety measures are rigorous.
Weapons are kept in a safe and only an armourer has the key.

This case is popular in Polish Press and I have just read an interview with a seasoned armourer”

 

[JudgeJoe]

She can give interviews if she wants, can’t she? She’s not being disrespectful to the victim - in fact she’s being the opposite IMO.

It appears AB isn’t happy about his spouse volunteering comments to media. He cuts her off multiple times in the Vermont roadside media ambush. Perhaps he’s just making certain to avoid broaching topics LE has asked him not to discuss. He definitely seems agitated with her attempts to answer questions. Imo
Hilaria Baldwin supports husband Alec after he speaks publicly on deadly 'Rust' shooting

 

[katydid23]

She can give interviews if she wants, can’t she? She’s not being disrespectful to the victim - in fact she’s being the opposite IMO.

Right, but I don't think it is a good look to try and make AB the victim in this case right now. If these stories are true, and there were previous misfires days earlier, and it was not corrected, then the producers are in legal trouble, imo. So talking about AB getting PTSD and making it about his misfortune, when he had time and resources to try and fix the many safety issues before this tragedy, is not a good look.


'Rust' crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting

‘Rust’ crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting

 

[Deleted member 158085]

From @Dotta in the previous thread:

“In Poland a film armourer must pass a pyrotechnic exam and also a psychological test.

Police must issue a document that this person has never committed any crime.

Safety measures are rigorous.
Weapons are kept in a safe and only an armourer has the key.

This case is popular in Polish Press and I have just read an interview with a seasoned armourer”

Not even all police here have to pass a psych evaluation, so I don't see this happening. Although probably anyone who works with guns for a living should. But this is the US. Probably not going to happen

 

[katydid23]

I was reviewing a few websites that provide "prop guns" for various purposes. Even those companies state unequivocally, that a prop gun should never be pointed at anyone.

Old West Blank Guns | Colt 1873 Replica Guns | Western Stage Props

And this gun, was NOT a "PROP GUN". I think that is an important distinction. Why was this gun even allowed on the set?

Many of the news articles are misleading, as is the title of this thread. This was a real gun. An antique. A .45 Colt Revolver.

Gun not thoroughly checked before Alec Baldwin fired fatal shot

Gun that killed Halyna Hutchins used for leisure shooting by crew the morning of the accident: report

YES, I have been seeing the same thing repeated by safety experts.

There was no reason for a real gun to be used in the rehearsal scene. And no reason for a real gun to be pointed at anyone.

Also, the Assistant Director should not have been the one to hand AB the weapon. It should always be the armorer that hands the weapons to the actor. AD should have checked the weapon first, as a safety protocol, then HG would hand it to the actor and say Cold gun.

But it wasn't a cold gun, it was not checked by either of the two, and it wasn't necessary in a rehearsal and AB should never have aimed it at anyone. So lots of blame to go around.

 

[RANCH]

Want Weapons in Your Film? Ask a Pro

I think that the three most common mistakes made by indie filmmakers is: 1.) Budget, 2.) Budget, and 3.) Budget. Don’t laugh… If you are going to do a film with weapons then you should have, as part of your film team, a knowledgeable professional. Yes, budget is always a factor that the producer is looking at, but safety should always be a factor in the budget process because if something happens, the cost will be much higher—and we are not just talking money.

An armorer should not only be knowledgeable about the weapons they will be using and the period they will portraying, but should also have some knowledge of the film industry and how a film shoot works. Hence, factor in experience.

Want Weapons in Your Film? Ask a Pro - Film Independent

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Right, but I don't think it is a good look to try and make AB the victim in this case right now. If these stories are true, and there were previous misfires days earlier, and it was not corrected, then the producers are in legal trouble, imo. So talking about AB getting PTSD and making it about his misfortune, when he had time and resources to try and fix the many safety issues before this tragedy, is not a good look.


'Rust' crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting

‘Rust’ crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting

I think it's a no-brainer that he has PTSD. I've seen it widely discussed since day one. I don’t see a problem with being honest about it. The people on site when it happened who are suffering psychological damage do not take away sympathy from the victim. In fact, for me, it simply adds to the tragedy.

ETA a word I left out (from)

 

[katydid23]

I don't think Baldwin was in charge of hiring.

Really? Producers are usually in charge of the hiring of major crew members. I'd think he was part of that decision making process.

And he had to know about the previous misfires where a gun went off with a live round, 3 days before his tragic incident. and crew members complained:

"...at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.

Three crew members ... said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges.

Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” —— two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times.

“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”


AB had to know about the above ^^^incidents and as producer, he could have sent up safety meeting to clean things up. So I cannot get onboard with him being the victim here.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Really? Producers are usually in charge of the hiring of major crew members. I'd think he was part of that decision making process.

And he had to know about the previous misfires where a gun went off with a live round, 3 days before his tragic incident. and crew members complained:

"...at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.

Three crew members ... said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges.

Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” —— two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times.

“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”


AB had to know about the above ^^^incidents and as producer, he could have sent up safety meeting to clean things up. So I cannot get onboard with him being the victim here.

Somebody posted an article in the last thread that listed the production people who were most likely in charge of the hiring. It wasn't AB's company, but I can't remember which one it was.

 

[Luna20]

This is definitely a problematic piece for AB. A lot of details here. There seems to be conflicting reports about leisure shooting activity.

Alec and Hilaria Baldwin talk to photographers after going into hiding in Vermont | Daily Mail Online

 

[katydid23]

I think it's a no-brainer that he has PTSD. I've seen it widely discussed since day one. I don’t see a problem with being honest about it. The people on site when it happened who are suffering psychological damage doesn't take away sympathy the victim. In fact, for me, it simply adds to the tragedy.

AB was in a position to prevent these types of accidents. Especially after a similar misfire happened 3 days prior, where the actor was told it was a cold gun and it misfired twice on set.

What happened afterwards to prevent it from happening again? According to 4 witnesses from the crew, NOTHING happened in response. That is why some crew walked off the film the morning of the death on set. Some felt it was unsafe.

AB , as a producer of the film, was in a position to correct those dangerous mistakes before they happened again. That is why it bothers me that his wife is trying to make him out to be the victim of circumstances. I think he partially responsible for those tragic circumstances because 3 days earlier a 'hot' gun was given in error and called a cold gun. AB has enough experience to know that something needed to be done to figure out how that happened.

Safety meetings are called when something bad happens, in order to figure out EXACTLY what went wrong. And no one did that. AB ignored the issue apparently, and days later when he is handed a 'cold' gun, he just assumes everything is fine?????

Not only that, he points it at a person, without really being certain about the safety protocols on this set?

 

[katydid23]

Somebody posted an article in the last thread that listed the production people who were most likely in charge of the hiring. It wasn't AB's company, but I can't remember which one it was.

So what do you think about the fact that there was the exact same incident with a gun being called cold, and given to an actor, that then misfired, days earlier?

Should AB, as a producer, be held responsible for dealing with that issue? It seemed to me that he ignored it and days later it happened again, and he did everything wrong as it unfolded, imo.



'Rust' crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting
Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges.

“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”

 

[Deleted member 158085]

AB was in a position to prevent these types of accidents. Especially after a similar misfire happened 3 days prior, where the actor was told it was a cold gun and it misfired twice on set.

What happened afterwards to prevent it from happening again? According to 4 witnesses from the crew, NOTHING happened in response. That is why some crew walked off the film the morning of the death on set. Some felt it was unsafe.

AB , as a producer of the film, was in a position to correct those dangerous mistakes before they happened again. That is why it bothers me that his wife is trying to make him out to be the victim of circumstances. I think he partially responsible for those tragic circumstances because 3 days earlier a 'hot' gun was given in error and called a cold gun. AB has enough experience to know that something needed to be done to figure out how that happened.

Safety meetings are called when something bad happens, in order to figure out EXACTLY what went wrong. And no one did that. AB ignored the issue apparently, and days later when he is handed a 'cold' gun, he just assumes everything is fine?????

Not only that, he points it at a person, without really being certain about the safety protocols on this set?

The director who was shot was also probably in a pretty good position to talk to people about concerns and changes. Does that mean he's not still a victim of the shooting if he didn't try to change anything? What if he directed Alec to shoot in that direction? Still a victim? (My answer is yes, of course.)

No one is even calling Alec a victim. They are just being honest about him having PTSD. I think people would find fault as well if he didn't have some sort of psychological damage from this.

He lost a friend. He pulled the trigger. It's pretty clear that he's suffering.