Alleged alcohol abuse Revisit w/new 2010.11.12 Dateline info

[kathryann]

Thanks to everyone who said nice things about my post. Sometimes it's important for me to remember where I came from, and where I am today. By the Grace of God I have stayed sober, it was certainly nothing I could do on my own.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I'm sorry if I offended you, but for the most part and after attending AA meetings for all these years, MOO is that alcoholics are selfish and self-centered while NOT in recovery or while using. A person is not in recovery if they are not getting help, even though they may be sober, that's the way I learned it anyway. I am also co-dependent and qualified for many of the 12 Step programs. I have been on both sides of the fence unfortunately. I am an alcoholic and married one. I really don't recall reading anywhere that Terri was attending AA meetings, and for me that is a very important factor in recovery. I honestly don't think she could have been living a very sober life if she was hiring MFH landscapers and sexting. The 12 Steps and these things just don't go together. MOO. Once an alcoholic crosses the line (DUI?) they are an alcoholic for life as far as I know. This is MOO.

It's ok.You did not offend me.I've seen while attending AA meetings for all these years people that are self centered and also many that are not.There are many people not even alcoholics that are just as selfish and self centered also.I agree a person is not in recovery if they are not getting help.The person has to want recovery.That's why I said it is the person who has to really acknowledge they are a alcoholic and thier life has become unmanageable to really take the first step to recover.You don't have to be an alcoholic to have bad behavior.I agree AA meetings are a must and I still go to them.By the grace of God I am sober one day at a time.I've seen nothing to show me Terri was an alcoholic.We just hear this from Kaine and his changing stories.Not any one else.She might not be an alcoholic and might not need meetings.I don't know if she did the MFH.Her sexting wasn't one of her better choices in life.But that doesn't prove she murdered little Kyron.I just need a little more than all this to convict her and right now I can't.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I would find it plausible too, but then there's this. I don't think J***** is a liar.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

(snipped)

J*****, who is staying with his father, Ron Tarver, in Roseburg, said his mother treated Kyron like her own son.

"The only difference between her relationship with Kyron and me was the difference in ages," he said.

(snipped)

Although the couple fought, they did so in private. J*****said he only heard his mother and Kaine fight once in eight years. He described Kaine as calm but strict. "If you didn't follow the rules, you'd get in trouble," J***** said.


I wonder if they've had J***** take a LDT?

I just wanted to add a thought I had earlier but my little blue edit button had already expired...

I don't want my words taken out of context {so before it is misconstrued that I am calling J*** a liar read thru my posts upthread...it will be completely clear}

As I said earlier children often "rewrite" history a way for the mind to protect from possible traumas seen and experienced..

It is obvious that J**** is infact doing this atleast to some degree... J**** stating that in 8 yrs he'd seen one fight ever... This is just untrue... common sense for one tells us it is UNTRUE but further more you have Kaine saying the arguments were very frequent along with Terri in emails alluding to unhappy homelife...

Am simply pointing this out to make obvious what is so very often done in children and adolescence minds...It is quite possible that J**** has rewritten alot more than just the number of arguments...

 

[human]

the alcoholic is the only one that can choose to change his/her life for sure, but Terri is not the only one who can decide that she's an alcoholic.

The alcoholic and the family may think no one knows, but I think in Terri's case , there were others that knew, but did not say anything until after Kyron went missing.

I know of a therapist who did not know that her father was an alcoholic until she went through required therapy for herself, before being allowed to be a therapist.

Her father only drank once a year for years.

There are many alcoholic types. Being drunk every day is not necessary to be considered an alcoholic.

After discussions with who knows whom, Kaine realized that she is an alcoholic. Not unusual at all, in my eyes.

 

[txsvicki]

Im sorry but after reading all of this why didnt he just let Kyron stay with his bio Mother and her husband? Even the bio Mom, didnt it upset her when a 7 yr old seemed VERY upset about having to leave her? I think Kyron had a very confusing life. I wish he couldve stayed with his bio Mom. She ALSO HAD A RIGHT to know step Mum was drinking so I dont think much of her X but......Im the type no 7 yr old of mine wouldve lived with someone else no way. In the pics, TH does seem to love Kyron and do alot with him but maybe she secretely resented him. Well, from what Desiree now says from reading emailsI guess she did
This has just turned into one big mud slinging fiasco with a little boy GONE probably dead somewhere. As far as the Dad not talking about it before, he did owe it to the bio Mom to talk about it, it involved her sons safety IMO. She seemed clueless although she had Kyron crying alot when he had to leave her.

I believe that Desiree was clueless about the drinking because she says so, but don't believe that she was clueless about the state of the marriage. She knew that Kyron was unhappy and had been trying to get Kaine to turn Kyron over to her. She knew that Terri approved and got many emails from Terri about things that were going on, lots of complaints. Terri could have blamed Kyron for her marital problems because Kyron told Desiree some things which caused her to speak to Kaine. Kyron may not have said a word, but his sobbing and unhappiness and simply wanting to be with his Mom upset the apple cart. Kaine could have then blamed Terri for not taking proper care of the kids or being too demanding. The marriage seemed to be in bad trouble even without Kaine or Desiree knowing about the drinking and I believe Desiree knew that much.

 

[MD MOMMY]

But I don't think Desiree would have won...she didn't know what she knows now. A judge is not going to remove a child from his current home on a "feeling." Desiree really had no choice but to go along with Kaine. She was probably hoping Terri would convince Kaine to allow Kyron to move to Medford...

Maybe she would have or maybe not. IF that were me I would die trying if my child was having issues at school and was having problems going to a home that is all he really knew. That is a huge red flag IMO. Desiree had plenty of choices, she just let Kaine control it all IMO. I don't think Terri would need much convincing according to what Desiree stated. It sounded to me like she wanted him gone and now we really know she did. It's all just sad. I'm not blaming Desiree. I know she didn't know it all back then. I'm just a little perplexed that in her heart she knew things weren't exactly right and she didn't follow that motherly intuition fully.

 

[germaine]

Maybe she would have or maybe not. IF that were me I would die trying if my child was having issues at school and was having problems going to a home that is all he really knew. That is a huge red flag IMO. Desiree had plenty of choices, she just let Kaine control it all IMO. I don't think Terri would need much convincing according to what Desiree stated. It sounded to me like she wanted him gone and now we really know she did. It's all just sad. I'm not blaming Desiree. I know she didn't know it all back then. I'm just a little perplexed that in her heart she knew things weren't exactly right and she didn't follow that motherly intuition fully.

she would NOT have won. Absolutely. Kaine had been Kyron's custodial parent for years. He was in school. His routine was established. She would have had to have PROVEN abuse or a significant change in circumstances to get custody of Kyron. She could not have proven that unless KH admitted abuse. Neither DY nor KH has, to this day, come right out and said there was physical or emotional abuse. TH drinking to excess was something KH just found out. And even if he had known it, his wife drinking would not be a significant change in circumstances. jmoo

Gitana???

 

[txsvicki]

Kaines says that the hiding of drinking is just the tip of the iceberg, so in addition to the sexting that we know about, there must be some really bad stuff that is going to eventually come out.

 

[Snowden]

I am more saddened every time one of these parents opens up. More and more sordid details on the dynamics of the Horman household and marriage, but still no Kyron.

I do feel for Kaine and Desiree but Kyron has been failed by those responsible for his life, including them. Speaking from the point of view of a child, I grew up with one parent who was a complete alcoholic and another who physically abused me. I know they both loved me, but they were too wrapped up in themselves and their own pain to be the people and parents they needed to be.

It took many years to undo the damage they caused me, but as an adult I could take responsibility for how I was going to allow my childhood to impact the rest of my life. Kyron is just a little boy. He lived in a world he couldn't control. His life was in the hands of Terri, Kaine and Desiree. I think there were enough signs things were terribly wrong. Someone needed to fight for this child, but didn't. I hope it's not too late for Ky.