Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #33

[YoureNicked]

YOur Nicked, I had a nagging feeling about those castor plants whilst we were at the bridge, and I dont know what Mani was thinking or feeling regarding them, but she talked about them several times, and specifically made sure there were photos taken of them. Now I think I know what was bugging me. The smell of them was reminding me of the prickly plants that give you rashes, cant think , maybe lantana? either way, they smell like the prickly weedy plants. That was the connection that was bugging me....and may have even been part of my gut feeling that she was placed there. I couldnt say why I feel strongly about it, and I know sense of smell can be a powerful activator of the mind...anyway, maybe its nothing, but you triggered something then that clicks for me

Hi minni - yes castor oil plants and lantana are both highly toxic...

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/112796/garden-plants-poisonous-to-people.pdf
Toxic plants listed here in the above link but there are numerous sites which will attest to the fact that both lantana and castor oil plants are poisonous.

Like marlywings, I can't find any specific online articles about the tiny hairs on the leaves but, from my own personal experience, I recall that the castor oil plant leaves have the same kind of tiny hairs that the lantana bushes have. Highly irritating if you touch them!

Maybe next time you're at the bridge you could take a look at a live plant and report back to us if this is true

Anyway I just wanted to state in my original post that the caterpillar explanation that GBC gave for the scratches on his torso could probably equally be explained by the castor oil plants that were abundant at Kholo Creek Bridge.

I tend to think that they were made by Allison though.

Interesting though that both you and Mani had a 'funny feeling' about those plants.
Cheers!

 

[Rational]

These accounts may very well exist but whereabouts in MSM does it mention this is "on public record"???...for it to be classed as "fact", as you've suggested, I think we're supposed to supply a link. Is there a link??

I agree Marly I have been looking and cannot find anything. Yes it may well be true but our compiled 'facts list' is just that, facts either provided by QPS or in MSM statements.

Would love to have it verified though. Is it possible to provide a link to his current account in which case we could add it as a fact?

Sounds all a bit bureaucratic but it is really worthwhile to have that list of verifiable facts only. There is also a rumour list, again many of which have come true!

 

[Gemini Girl]

Hi minni - yes castor oil plants and lantana are both highly toxic...

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/112796/garden-plants-poisonous-to-people.pdf
Toxic plants listed here in the above link but there are numerous sites which will attest to the fact that both lantana and castor oil plants are poisonous.

I just wanted to state in my original post that the caterpillar explanation that GBC gave for the scratches on his torso could probably equally be explained by the castor oil plants that were abundant at Kholo Creek Bridge.

I tend to think that they were made by Allison though.

Interesting though that both you and Mani had a 'funny feeling' about those plants.
Cheers!

Completely OT, but potted lantana is sold in nurseries in Western Australia (I lived there for 10 years at one point) as a desirable exotic plant for suburban gardens.

:floorlaugh:

JMO MOO

no disrespect to Sandgropers, I love the place

 

[Rational]

GBC hasn't posted on this blog since Xmas 2008 I think. It's all been downhill for him since then eh wot.

Hope Aunty isn't breaking the speed limit.:ufo:

Too busy with his mistresses after that, no time to blog he may have been found out by one or the other!

 

[Mystique75]

... bopping in a disengaged manner...

You are hilarious! :floorlaugh:

Re: caterpillar incident - could the "witness" be one of the girls? GBC's visit to the doctor on Thursday morning would show a kind of careful pre-planning that doesn't fit with everything else though? Could he have known that morning that he would have to go ahead with the "task" that he'd planned for a month's time? In that case, it could show that Allison may have threatened to divulge some information that he wanted to keep secret, hence the urgency.

The info about the Castor Oil plants is interesting, too!

 

[Walk A Mile]

OK - so we've confirmed that it shows the last known position, and doesn't update once it is switched off. It also records when the location signal was lost/switched off.

However, just thinking logically again (don't you just hate it when I keep trying to do that?) - we only have GBC's text about "the App" from which we assume that Allison ever had the "Find My iPhone" app activated at all. She may NEVER have had it activated....

I have my lovely wife's app activated, as she has been known(!!) to leave her phone in all sorts of places. Including two phones put through the washing machine! But Allison may never have had that app activated at all - as I said, we only have GBC's text referring to "the App isn't working" from which we are assuming that (a) he means the "Find My iPhone" app, and (b) that she did have it working at some point.

But again - the police would know, from logging into their iCloud/MobileMe service, if the app had ever been activated and when it was turned off.

Thanks for doing that test Aunty - appreciated. That's cleared up a couple of points for sure.

PS: To switch the iPhone off, you don't need to press TWO buttons - that reboots it. All you need is the one button on the top. A SHORT press puts the phone into sleep mode. A LONG press and hold, will put the "Power Off" slider on the screen, and you slide that to turn the phone off.

It could have referred to other apps. Map My Walk/Run for instance - tracks you on your fitness routine. Whichever app he was was referring to, surely it was one that was installed and running - he mentioned it in his "alibi" text so he would have known he'd need to explain what he meant.

Then again, I'd have thought he'd realise they would check his computer too, yet there he sat, Googling "taking the fifth" - which isn't even a thing in Australian law!

 

[minni]

Weren't the police reported to be triangulating the location based on information from the carrier? If accurate, that would suggest GPS and WIFI were switched off or not working but the phone was switched on and still registering on the cellular network. That would explain why they couldn't pinpoint an exact location - Find My iPhone would only be reporting the last known location so it would be no help, and the carrier's network is less precise about exact coordinates.

The GPS only works with a clear view of the sky, and the accuracy is enhanced using information about the WIFI networks nearby. If WIFI was switched off and the phone was unable to see the sky (pocket, bag, blanket), it wouldn't provide a lot of useful information. You might even have trouble pinpointing when it left the BC house.

The phone was reported to be switched on when dumped - remember all the reports of trying to find it as the signal faded and the battery went flat. That's not how you'd describe trying to locate a phone that was reporting its location to the Find My iPhone app. The flattened battery would not erase the logged information.

so you could leave your phone on, but switch off the app? and without a good signal, the gps would not be enough help either?

when he says in his text that following morning 'the apps not working' he may have slipped up, because the police may have tried the app, and the signal would show it to be close to the house, where she last had it working, so if he too tried to use the app, he would get the same info as the police, not the 'its not working' info?

Wow...my head is hurting, dont worry about explaining it to me this morning on second thoughts hahaha

 

[BJsleuth]

Hang on- Mountain Misst, maybe this is what you're talking about rather than the "find my phone" app?


"With newer models of cell phones having GPS chips and microphone capabilities installed, police can locate a person quickly. They are also able to listen in on everything going on around the cell phone, even when it is turned off."

http://www.sophisticatededge.com/how-to-ping-a-cell-phone.html

 

[minni]

Hi minni - yes castor oil plants and lantana are both highly toxic...

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/112796/garden-plants-poisonous-to-people.pdf
Toxic plants listed here in the above link but there are numerous sites which will attest to the fact that both lantana and castor oil plants are poisonous.

Like marlywings, I can't find any specific online articles about the tiny hairs on the leaves but, from my own personal experience, I recall that the castor oil plant leaves have the same kind of tiny hairs that the lantana bushes have. Highly irritating if you touch them!

Maybe next time you're at the bridge you could take a look at a live plant and report back to us if this is true

Anyway I just wanted to state in my original post that the caterpillar explanation that GBC gave for the scratches on his torso could probably equally be explained by the castor oil plants that were abundant at Kholo Creek Bridge.

I tend to think that they were made by Allison though.

Interesting though that both you and Mani had a 'funny feeling' about those plants.
Cheers!

the welts on his neck make me think of the castor plants too. If it was hairy caterpillers, I am of the belief he would be covered! those little suckers get inside your collar and down your chest and all over. My son had 3 THREE incidents within a year!! I was like :what: he had to keep coming home from school covered in welts etc.

I didnt realise I had a funny feeling till you pinpointed what it was. It wasnt eerie, like a chill you sometimes get or anything, they were just nagging at me.

 

[Rational]

so you could leave your phone on, but switch off the app? and without a good signal, the gps would not be enough help either?

when he says in his text that following morning 'the apps not working' he may have slipped up, because the police may have tried the app, and the signal would show it to be close to the house, where she last had it working, so if he too tried to use the app, he would get the same info as the police, not the 'its not working' info?

Wow...my head is hurting, dont worry about explaining it to me this morning on second thoughts hahaha

Even though you have the'find my iPad /iPhone' app unless you have your location service turned on it doesn't work. This is if you have people that you have allowed to know where you are, but you still don't want them to know where you are at that particular time.

My guess is that GBC turned of the app remotely after he got rid of the phone or lost the phone and to cover his sorry @rse he texted that message saying the app doesn't work.

All MOO

 

[DrWatson]

It could have referred to other apps. Map My Walk/Run for instance - tracks you on your fitness routine. Whichever app he was was referring to, surely it was one that was installed and running - he mentioned it in his "alibi" text so he would have known he'd need to explain what he meant.

Then again, I'd have thought he'd realise they would check his computer too, yet there he sat, Googling "taking the fifth" - which isn't even a thing in Australian law!

Yes - you're quite right. There are other apps that track your movement. But they usually show up on the iPhone itself - and not (as far as I know) on a remote computer or another person's phone.... I know I have a friend who is a keen runner, and she posts her run tracks on her Facebook page, but I don't think she can be tracked while she's actually out and about - she posts the completed run once she gets home.

But, for any app like that to work, it has to have the Location Services turned on both globally for the phone, and specifically for that app (on the Settings page). I imagine it would be analogous to a GPS app like Tom Tom - the phone itself knows where it is, but doesn't transmit that to anyone else. That would run the batteries down in double quick time....

Maybe there are other tracking apps? I'll have to check in the App Store when I get time or get home.

Oh if only we knew if the QPS did find Allison's phone - wouldn't that fill in a lot of gaps...!?!

 

[Walk A Mile]

Yes - you're quite right. There are other apps that track your movement. But they usually show up on the iPhone itself - and not (as far as I know) on a remote computer or another person's phone.... I know I have a friend who is a keen runner, and she posts her run tracks on her Facebook page, but I don't think she can be tracked while she's actually out and about - she posts the completed run once she gets home.

But, for any app like that to work, it has to have the Location Services turned on both globally for the phone, and specifically for that app (on the Settings page). I imagine it would be analogous to a GPS app like Tom Tom - the phone itself knows where it is, but doesn't transmit that to anyone else. That would run the batteries down in double quick time....

Maybe there are other tracking apps? I'll have to check in the App Store when I get time or get home.

Oh if only we knew if the QPS did find Allison's phone - wouldn't that fill in a lot of gaps...!?!

Map My Walk offers live tracking or post-activity upload.

 

[Aunty]

The person who apparently can make a statement attesting to Gerard's caterpillar story.

http://m.smh.com.au/queensland/accu...enclay-denied-bail-20120622-20s73.html?page=2
Alleged scratches found on Mr Baden-Clay’s face and torso were also mentioned in court.

"Mr Davis said the marks on his client’s torso were related to a “caterpillar incident” and he had witness statements attesting to that."

IMO and just my Imagination, not fact
Mr Davis statement means absolutely nothing. It's just huff and puff crap.
The caterpillar witness statement , was not tested.
So, this statement is probably weightless, and its more likely a doctor 's certificate.
Eg.,
At my patients request I have written this certificate.
The (GBC)patient came to my surgery today (sat) and has claimed that he has had a caterpillar incident.
I have examined his torso, and can see deep scratches that are likely caused by fingernails.
He claims a dirty great big hairy caterpillar , climbed into his bed last Thu night , and rubbed its self all over his torso. ( sexual fantasy?)
He also claims it dug its long sharp nails into him. (eek)
He claims he then dug his long sharp nails into himself , as he rolled around his bed , trying to pull it off him. ( it was very attached to him by then)
I asked him if he was ok, and he has stated to me that he is a little bit hurt but will be Ok... if I write this certificate. (looney)
I am referring him to see a psychiatrist at the local hospital, and he has assured me he will attend there after he visits Indooroopilly shopping town later today.

 

[Gemini Girl]

IMO and just my Imagination, not fact
Mr Davis statement means absolutely nothing. It's just huff and puff crap.
The caterpillar witness statement , was not tested.
So, this statement is probably weightless, and its more likely a doctor 's certificate.
Eg.,
At my patients request I have written this certificate.
The (GBC)patient came to my surgery today (sat) and has claimed that he has had a caterpillar incident.
I have examined his torso, and can see deep scratches that are likely caused by fingernails.
He claims a dirty great big hairy caterpillar , climbed into his bed last Thu night , and rubbed its self all over his torso. ( sexual fantasy?)
He also claims it dug its long sharp nails into him. (eek)
He claims he then dug his long sharp nails into himself , as he rolled around his bed , trying to pull it off him. ( it was very attached to him by then)
I asked him if he was ok, and he has stated to me that he is a little bit hurt but will be Ok... if I write this certificate. (looney)
I am referring him to see a psychiatrist at the local hospital, and he has assured me he will attend there after he visits Indooroopilly shopping town later today.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[BJsleuth]

IMO and just my Imagination, not fact
Mr Davis statement means absolutely nothing. It's just huff and puff crap.
The caterpillar witness statement , was not tested.
So, this statement is probably weightless, and its more likely a doctor 's certificate.
Eg.,
At my patients request I have written this certificate.
The (GBC)patient came to my surgery today (sat) and has claimed that he has had a caterpillar incident.
I have examined his torso, and can see deep scratches that are likely caused by fingernails.
He claims a dirty great big hairy caterpillar , climbed into his bed last Thu night , and rubbed its self all over his torso. ( sexual fantasy?)
He also claims it dug its long sharp nails into him. (eek)
He claims he then dug his long sharp nails into himself , as he rolled around his bed , trying to pull it off him. ( it was very attached to him by then)
I asked him if he was ok, and he has stated to me that he is a little bit hurt but will be Ok... if I write this certificate. (looney)
I am referring him to see a psychiatrist at the local hospital, and he has assured me he will attend there after he visits Indooroopilly shopping town later today.

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

I snorted tea reading that!

 

[Mountain Misst]

Hang on- Mountain Misst, maybe this is what you're talking about rather than the "find my phone" app?


"With newer models of cell phones having GPS chips and microphone capabilities installed, police can locate a person quickly. They are also able to listen in on everything going on around the cell phone, even when it is turned off."

http://www.sophisticatededge.com/how-to-ping-a-cell-phone.html

Depends in whether their iPhones were 4GS or just 4G and also whether they had Mac OS Lion operating. We don't know which he had. I don't have the current software to confirm or deny so best we leave it out. Too many IFs for now. It'll come out in the wash.

 

[bearbear]

Hang on- Mountain Misst, maybe this is what you're talking about rather than the "find my phone" app?


"With newer models of cell phones having GPS chips and microphone capabilities installed, police can locate a person quickly. They are also able to listen in on everything going on around the cell phone, even when it is turned off."

http://www.sophisticatededge.com/how-to-ping-a-cell-phone.html

yes, this is what i was saying ages ago, when we were discussing why police wanted tv programming schedules from the tv networks, i was thinking if they had allisons or gbcs phone and she/he had this turned on they would hear tv in the background and other sounds, possibly helping with the timeline.

 

[minni]

IMO and just my Imagination, not fact
Mr Davis statement means absolutely nothing. It's just huff and puff crap.
The caterpillar witness statement , was not tested.
So, this statement is probably weightless, and its more likely a doctor 's certificate.
Eg.,
At my patients request I have written this certificate.
The (GBC)patient came to my surgery today (sat) and has claimed that he has had a caterpillar incident.
I have examined his torso, and can see deep scratches that are likely caused by fingernails.
He claims a dirty great big hairy caterpillar , climbed into his bed last Thu night , and rubbed its self all over his torso. ( sexual fantasy?)
He also claims it dug its long sharp nails into him. (eek)
He claims he then dug his long sharp nails into himself , as he rolled around his bed , trying to pull it off him. ( it was very attached to him by then)
I asked him if he was ok, and he has stated to me that he is a little bit hurt but will be Ok... if I write this certificate. (looney)
I am referring him to see a psychiatrist at the local hospital, and he has assured me he will attend there after he visits Indooroopilly shopping town later today.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Aunty]

OK - so we've confirmed that it shows the last known position, and doesn't update once it is switched off. It also records when the location signal was lost/switched off.

However, just thinking logically again (don't you just hate it when I keep trying to do that?) - we only have GBC's text about "the App" from which we assume that Allison ever had the "Find My iPhone" app activated at all. She may NEVER have had it activated....

I have my lovely wife's app activated, as she has been known(!!) to leave her phone in all sorts of places. Including two phones put through the washing machine! But Allison may never have had that app activated at all - as I said, we only have GBC's text referring to "the App isn't working" from which we are assuming that (a) he means the "Find My iPhone" app, and (b) that she did have it working at some point.

But again - the police would know, from logging into their iCloud/MobileMe service, if the app had ever been activated and when it was turned off.

Thanks for doing that test Aunty - appreciated. That's cleared up a couple of points for sure.

PS: To switch the iPhone off, you don't need to press TWO buttons - that reboots it. All you need is the one button on the top. A SHORT press puts the phone into sleep mode. A LONG press and hold, will put the "Power Off" slider on the screen, and you slide that to turn the phone off.

Oh thanks for that. Learn something new every day. :woohoo:

 

[Aunty]

Doc, just assume we are running with that theory that Allison took off from her home that night and ran up Boscombe road after a nasty argument or domestic at home, she would be aware of the 'find my phone' app if they had been using it to negate the trust issues which someone implied that they were using this app earlier on. She may have remembered as she heading up Boscombe road, and turned it off. This would account for the close proximity to the house where the police believe the phone to be.

Thinking further, It might also have been the reason the police initially stated that she may have been killed as early as 8.30 pm. Would there be evidence of the time she switched it off? If it WAS that early though, it would imply she took off at 8.30, and it wouldnt have taken her so long to get to where the screams were heard, if they are to be believed.

Great sleuthing Minnie :rocker: I agree