Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #35

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Thank you for joining Websleuths! :welcome3:​


Please remember the following when discussing the Allison Baden-Clay case:
Websleuths is a moderated forum. We strive to discuss cases in a friendly environment. ​

Our rules can be reviewed here: The Rules (PLEASE make sure you know the rules!)


Gerard Bayden-Clay has been arrested and charged with the murder of Allison Bayden-Clay


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REMEMBER: No cutting and pasting of comments from other social or media websites. You may paraphrase and provide a link.

The only social media sites allowed are those belonging to the victim, Gerard Baden-Clay and any named (by law enforcement) POI or Suspect, or site created and devoted to the murder of Allison.


Media/Timeline Reference Thread: CLICK HERE



CHAT ROOM: not for case discussion!
 
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Have you read the previous post? If not, read it now.
By posting on this thread, you are stating you know the rules!​
 
imamaze said:
A list of our verified posters can be found here...

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ANYONE who posts facts and IS NOT a verified professional MUST POST A LINK TO VERIFY THE INFORMATION!

Any post without this procedure will result in the post being removed without explanation and repeated violations could result in a loss of posting privileges.
 
We have a detailed, formal Terms of Service (TOS) posted separately, and that TOS is what you will be held to as a member here. It's long and detailed because it has to be in the world we live in, and you are expected to read it, understand it and abide by it. However, we can sum it up as follows:

1) Be a decent human being;
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4) It's a big world. People will disagree with you. You will disagree with them. This can be done with respect, and that's what we expect.
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Please continue here...
 
Please do not discuss rumors. Although SOME rumors turn out to be true in the end, there are also those that are just that 'rumor,' and tend to derail the threads. Until there's a 'link' to verify a circumstance, we ask you do NOT post rumors.

This includes discussion of what the minor children "might" have said.

If locals wish to be verified (as local residents with insider information), then we would be able to discuss, unless the information might jeopardize the investigation or case.
 
Thanks Pulpfiction for your posts. They have really touched me and saddened me even more.
 
After I talked with my dad today about the lowdown on caterpillars from the scientific point of view I ended up at the town library and what should be on the book cart in front of me - a book for five year olds about caterpillars. Nuff said.
 
Gerard Baden-Clay solicitor Michael Bosscher files for bankruptcy

July 22, 2012 12:00AM

ONE of Queensland's best known criminal lawyers, Michael Bosscher, has filed for bankruptcy and is appealing a Queensland Law Society decision to cancel his certificate to practise as a solicitor in Queensland.
Mr Bosscher, a founding partner of defunct law firm Ryan & Bosscher, now works for his wife's firm, Bosscher Lawyers, and is one of the solicitors representing accused wife murderer Gerard Baden-Clay.

On July 9, in a Queensland Civil and Administrative Tribunal, Mr Bosscher was granted a stay of the Law Society executive committee's recent decision to refuse his application to renew his practising certificate this year. But if his upcoming appeal in QCAT is unsuccessful, he will not be able to practise as a lawyer.

According to documents filed in QCAT, Mr Bosscher filed for bankruptcy on May 2. In a statement of affairs, he says partnership debts involved amounts owed to unsecured creditors, including barristers and the Australian Taxation Office

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...s-for-bankruptcy/story-e6freoof-1226431613334
 
BERRY.

Hi. I can't elaborate further because I agree with what Bayside and Summer_Breeze wrote in that it is unwise to say too much specifically about the BC children:) I am sure you understand. Like you, I will be glued to my seat when we all get more reliable and factual info when it is released. But what I do know is that all Arthur Gorrie prisoners, even the ones in their protected area, are treated the same. GBC is in that area, like others, to keep him safe...from lots of things. The courier mail's photo and article several weeks ago had a lot of the relevant info. I don't have the link but MarlyWings would:)
 
marlywings said:
Gerard Baden-Clay solicitor Michael Bosscher files for bankruptcy

July 22, 2012 12:00AM

ONE of Queensland's best known criminal lawyers, Michael Bosscher, has filed for bankruptcy and is appealing a Queensland Law Society decision to cancel his certificate to practise as a solicitor in Queensland.
Mr Bosscher, a founding partner of defunct law firm Ryan & Bosscher, now works for his wife's firm, Bosscher Lawyers, and is one of the solicitors representing accused wife murderer Gerard Baden-Clay.

On July 9, in a Queensland Civil and Administrative Tribunal, Mr Bosscher was granted a stay of the Law Society executive committee's recent decision to refuse his application to renew his practising certificate this year. But if his upcoming appeal in QCAT is unsuccessful, he will not be able to practise as a lawyer.

According to documents filed in QCAT, Mr Bosscher filed for bankruptcy on May 2. In a statement of affairs, he says partnership debts involved amounts owed to unsecured creditors, including barristers and the Australian Taxation Office

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...s-for-bankruptcy/story-e6freoof-1226431613334
Click to expand...

Oh dear...Bet that caused a few choice expletives to be muttered!
 
pulpfiction said:
BERRY.

Hi. I can't elaborate further because I agree with what Bayside and Summer_Breeze wrote in that it is unwise to say too much specifically about the BC children:) I am sure you understand. Like you, I will be glued to my seat when we all get more reliable and factual info when it is released. But what I do know is that all Arthur Gorrie prisoners, even the ones in their protected area, are treated the same. GBC is in that area, like others, to keep him safe...from lots of things. The courier mail's photo and article several weeks ago had a lot of the relevant info. I don't have the link but MarlyWings would:)
Click to expand...

This may be the report??...

Inside the prison where accused wife-killer Gerard Baden-Clay will be held for up to three years

June 24, 2012

THIS is where accused wife-murderer Gerard Baden-Clay will live, possibly for up to three years, as the high-profile case goes through the legal process.
A toilet connected to a sink, a single bed, a mirror, TV, shelf and desk make up a 3m x 4m cell where prisoners spend 12 hours a day inside the Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre.

A small window overlooks the nondescript, high-security, prison grounds. Locked prison blocks remain under constant surveillance; thick, secure, doors slam loudly; guards walk freely through long, caged walkways; inmates workout with whatever they can find, pumping chairs like dumbbells.

Morning headcount begins at 6.45am, before a cereal and bread breakfast, followed by gym and activities such as football, tennis and volleyball.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/accused-wife-killer-in-purgatory/story-e6freon6-1226406390099
 
I was under the impression that Michael Bosscher had not been engaged by Baden-Clay and nor was that other bloke that writes books etc. :waitasec:

Ah Karma. Don't you just love it? :rocker:
 
Makara said:
I was under the impression that Michael Bosscher had not been engaged by Baden-Clay and nor was that other bloke that writes books etc. :waitasec:

Ah Karma. Don't you just love it? :rocker:
Click to expand...

Yes it does contradict the report from two weeks ago...odd...

July 07, 2012

Gerard Baden-Clay has had several visitors since being jailed, including from high-profile criminal lawyers Chris Nyst and Michael Bosscher.

However, it is understood only his original solicitor, Darren Mahony, has been retained, along with barrister Peter Davis SC

http://www.news.com.au/top-stories/...re/story-e6frfkp9-1226419500345#ixzz21GU2ZIoO
 
marlywings said:
This may be the report??...
Click to expand...

That's it. Thanks:) the main difference primarily is that protected prisoners don't socialize with the general pop. and prisoners like GBC are in their own cell but I'm no expert on prisons ok lol. Within the protected area it is very closely watched/monitored also. Every prisoner I've ever worked with at Arthur Gorrie is always handcuffed & accompanied by 2 guards who stands in the background, eyes down but ever watchful and ready to pounce. I'm not sure about GBC's current feelings, but some protected prisoners are real loners and some don't go out very often at all to exercise or "socialize" beyond their own cell. Some do but not that frequently, most usually try to get along and after a while they can form friendships. Put it this way, before too long another one arrives and the GBCs of the block might befriend the newbie, eventually that happens again and again so the shock value goes down a little. A lot of them read, listen to music, and many sleep a lot once they settle in. I have been in the medical unit & offices of the protected area but not in close proximity to where GBC would be. A few years back I went out to another men's prison (@Wolston Park). I was seeing a dreadful old paedophile. Anyway, I walked in and I was told I was going into "the resort". Well I was stunned. It was actually a big new area with trees and grass and with the sun shining it was actually what I would think would be, for an incarcerated person, quite a nice break from the rest of the prison and pleasant. Arthur Gorrie is, well...more glum and I think the best place to look if you get out of your cell is up. The sky alone is the nicest thing out there so GBC truly is getting a taste of what total lack of freedom is. Btw...the worst offenders I've met are in the high secure facility at Wolston Park and they are the ones with the most dangerous & severe (or bizarre if you like) psychiatric disorders. As a student I did my practical placements there. I will never forget it lol:)
 
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178991&page=36

pulpfiction
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 158

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mani
Pulps, give us the eerily accurate part please

I agree with what Bayside said earlier regarding how much we say about the children. However, try to read between my lines perhaps children are treated EXTREMELY carefully. I can neither confirm, nor deny obviously, who was home and what, if anything was heard. Children's reactions, without words, speak volumes. And when a child speaks we all listen VERY carefully. Particularly in cases like these.

In addition to GEANIE, I hold the same opinion as Dr Watson, and some others that information given regarding the autopsy or post mortem, whatever you wish to call it, has been somewhat guarded it seems thus far. I do know results are pending. I do believe, like many, there was a history of 'unsavory aggression'. I do also believe that the case is very, very sad and beyond that I can say little else at this point. It is very hard on children. Kids at school get wind of things, and whether now or later the protection we try to envelope these children in is penetrated. What happened to their mother is sickening. By that I don't necessarily mean in the most gruesome thing you can imagine type thing but it is sickening. There is a reason why this is a high profile case is my belief and that is because violent crimes against women, mothers, daughters, friends etc. like Allison are just so awful because it was so unnecessary. This did NOT have to happen. And her girls did not have to suffer as they did and will. Most importantly a really nice person did not need to have her life snubbed out so abruptly and in such a cold, humiliating and detached manner.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Children are usually the product of their environment and parenting. I am yet to meet a truly evil child. As Dr Watson might tell you many of the most violent and aggressive people (prison) frequently have had some sort of acquired brain injury. They weren't born evil either. A lot I see also have severe childhood PTSD that has profoundly affected them. I see them as children with ODD or conduct disorder and sadly many of them end up sociopaths and extemely dangerous. Many have logical explanations for their beliefs when you tie it in with their upbringing and the abuse suffered.

As for GBC...well aloof seems a little bit possible I would like to hear from NBC. And finally, I think we all feel sad when it comes out. A light was extinguished forever and for what purpose? It is rare a person gets away with a crime like this so the victim h died in vain because no good comes of it for the perpetrator.
Click to expand...

Pulp Fiction, I was a little bit surprised to read the above bolded by me statement. I too have a background in psychology (I'm not verified on here, so won't go into too much detail on that), which made me do a double-take re your post.

I think there is a much stronger balance of nature/nurture than you have acknowledged. Sure, environment can play a major part, but we are also born with a specific genetic makeup that means two people exposed to the same circumstances don't always respond the same way. Just like someone who develops cancer, there is a genetic predisposition, that is triggered through exposure. And in some situations, decision-making and free will certainly influence how a person develops (or how stilted their development is). Your statement suggests hope is lost if born into a damaging home environment. I just don't agree with this, and from your other posts, I don't think you believe this either.

And the suggestion that 'the apple doesn't fall far from the tree' is a very very broad generalisation - murderers do not necessarily breed murderers (through genetics or parenting). There are just way too many factors for this statement to be plausible.

I also believe that the term 'born evil', although featured in the research literature nowadays, brings forward a whole lot of generalisations and assumptions from the old 'good versus evil' concept. I am not sure how 'evil' can be classifed in the DSM? It also suggests a very black and white view of what our profession views as mental illness and psychopathy.

You sound like you do an absolutely brilliant job working with kids (which I can tell from your sincere posts), but I just had to comment re that one paragraph in your post.
 
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