Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #43

[bearbear]

I have spent a fair bit of time there reading those statements I found the Skype calls interesting

i didnt see those! ill have to go back!
i found the first bumbling interviews at the house interesting, what there was of them.

 

[Maigret]

But hadn't it already connected to the fig tree pocket tower a few hours before the senior police arrived? This phone thing confuses me no end :what:

It's quite weird - methinks someone had it in a pocket on silent when it pinged to being within 150 metres - I'm no telco but if GBC had gone looking for Allison with her phone and connected to the Figtree pocket signal and started a download that would take a while and then came back to Brookfield with the phone and hid it there would the phone (whilst downloading) not stay connected to the Figtree pocket tower ?

 

[Maigret]

i didnt see those! ill have to go back!
i found the first bumbling interviews at the house interesting, what there was of them.

Records of them were on NBC 's computer

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

But hadn't it already connected to the fig tree pocket tower a few hours before the senior police arrived? This phone thing confuses me no end :what:

Yes, it had. At 6.31am April 20.
Yet at 1.09pm, the find my friends app showed its location to be near the home at Brookfield.
It's odd isn't it?

And GBC's phone connected to the Brookfield tower when it called ABC's phone at 6.32am. Even oddererer...

ADDED: ABC's phone also stayed connected to the internet (I don't yet know to which tower/s though) for 13 odd hours after 6.31am.

 

[linette]

Haha... I've long given up trying to figure why and how phones ping from somewhere then seem to ping from another. My experience is I could be sitting in the very same spot and at different times it will ping from 3 different towers.

I know Doc and others have gone to great lengths to explain all of this {which is VERY much appreciated}, and I am a reasonably intelligent person, but personally it does my head in. May as well be a game of ping pong to me. But that's my brains problem, not anyone else's.

Still this doesn't stop me from wondering where the hell her phone ended up, and how many travels it went on before it found it's final resting place.

 

[DrWatson]

Haha... I've long given up trying to figure why and how phones ping from somewhere then seem to pong from another. My experience is I could be sitting in the very same spot and at different times it will ping from 3 different towers.

I know Doc and others have gone to great lengths to explain all of this {which is VERY much appreciated}, and I am a reasonably intelligent person, but personally it does my head in.

Still this doesn't stop me from wondering where the hell her phone ended up, and how many travels it went on before it found it's final resting place.

Don't worry Linette - you're not alone by any means. Personally, I can't fathom out how Allison's phone connected to the FTP tower and stayed connected, and apparently stationary, for 13 hours till the battery ran flat, starting at about 6:31am, while at the same time the App showed her phone as broadcasting its position about 150m away from the BC house at 1:09pm that same day.

Now I know that 61 Boscombe Rd's back garden is up the hill a bit from the BC house, but the bottom of the garden is in a bit of a gully behind the child care centre, and therefore may have been in the "shade" from the Brookfield tower, but I would think the nearest line of sight tower to connect to would be the Kenmore tower, which would be well and truly BETWEEN the FTP tower and the house. That remains a complete mystery to me.

 

[Maigret]

Yes, it had. At 6.31am April 20.
Yet at 1.09pm, the find my friends app showed its location to be near the home at Brookfield.
It's odd isn't it?

And GBC's phone connected to the Brookfield tower when it called ABC's phone at 6.32am. Even oddererer...

ADDED: ABC's phone also stayed connected to the internet (I don't yet know to which tower/s though) for 13 odd hours after 6.31am.

So he did call her phone as well as texting it?

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

So he did call her phone as well as texting it?

Well, GBC's 'phone' made calls and texts to ABC's phone - yep.

 

[linette]

Don't worry Linette - you're not alone by any means. Personally, I can't fathom out how Allison's phone connected to the FTP tower and stayed connected, and apparently stationary, for 13 hours till the battery ran flat, starting at about 6:31am, while at the same time the App showed her phone as broadcasting its position about 150m away from the BC house at 1:09pm that same day.

Now I know that 61 Boscombe Rd's back garden is up the hill a bit from the BC house, but the bottom of the garden is in a bit of a gully behind the child care centre, and therefore may have been in the "shade" from the Brookfield tower, but I would think the nearest line of sight tower to connect to would be the Kenmore tower, which would be well and truly BETWEEN the FTP tower and the house. That remains a complete mystery to me.

Ok, now this question IS definitely going to sound mega dumb, lol.

What part of a phone gives us it's location? Are there like 2 parts that go together to create this?

WHAT IF the phone had been smashed and disposed of in different places? One part might say it's here and another would say it's somewhere else?

OK, OK you can all stop laughing now. haha

 

[bearbear]

So he did call her phone as well as texting it?

imagine if scraps owner has a little dig around her back garden and found the phone! luckily im not a neighbour, i would become obsessed with finding it!
police had another team there recently, if they had been searching for the phone and found it, would they have to disclose it to the defence? or would they only have to after it had been forensicly tested?

 

[linette]

imagine if scraps owner has a little dig around her back garden and found the phone! luckily im not a neighbour, i would become obsessed with finding it!
police had another team there recently, if they had been searching for the phone and found it, would they have to disclose it to the defence? or would they only have to after it had been forensicly tested?

Same here! I'd be sneaking down the back when nobody could see me at night with my headlight torch and a shovel.

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

Don't worry Linette - you're not alone by any means. Personally, I can't fathom out how Allison's phone connected to the FTP tower and stayed connected, and apparently stationary, for 13 hours till the battery ran flat, starting at about 6:31am, while at the same time the App showed her phone as broadcasting its position about 150m away from the BC house at 1:09pm that same day.

Now I know that 61 Boscombe Rd's back garden is up the hill a bit from the BC house, but the bottom of the garden is in a bit of a gully behind the child care centre, and therefore may have been in the "shade" from the Brookfield tower, but I would think the nearest line of sight tower to connect to would be the Kenmore tower, which would be well and truly BETWEEN the FTP tower and the house. That remains a complete mystery to me.

Did it definitely stay connected to the FTP tower for those 13 hours Doc?
I haven't seen all of the Telstra data - only a bill that shows that the phone connected to the FTP tower at 6.31am and was then billed for 13 hours of internet access (which may not mean that the towers it was connecting to didn't change during that connection time). If you know that it stayed connected to the FTP tower for the full 13 hours, I would love to know too! lease:

 

[Couldbe]

Since the affidavits are being posted and presumably can be discussed, the statement of Const Kellie Thomson shows that she used the Find My Friends app on GBC's phone at 1:09pm that day, and it showed Allison's phone as being about 150m away somewhere near the garden of 61 Boscombe Rd. Const Thomson had tried to use the app earlier, but had got no signal on GBC's phone. You may recall that I've posted a few times that the signal varies a lot at Brookfield, and can change just by walking from one side of the house to the other.

Hope that clarifies things, RLTP

I have not read the Affidavits, so without those details:

Wonder if he knew who had Allison's phone and went out to meet that 'someone else' who was in the vicinity of the FTP tower, who then returned Allison's phone to GBC when he was 'driving the streets' ......(he could have already phoned & sent texts/did some more while out).... he then took her phone home....'fiddled' with it and hid it in a secret place somewhere around their home.....at some time before the Police arrived.

 

[mrs plod]

I have always thought a good way to get rid of Allison's phone would be to bury it. If it was me, I would have taken a shovel, plunge the shovel vertically into the earth, then push forward with the shovel to open a small cavity. Place the phone into the cavity and let the shovel come back. Remove the shovel. This would leave no obvious recently disturbed earth. There would be but a slit that would easily be camouflaged by the grass or vegetation. Did the police check for anything like a shovel that might have had signs of recent use? Is the boscombe road garden fenced, mowed lawn or leafy garden? Would a metal detector pick up an iphone?

 

[DrWatson]

Did it definitely stay connected to the FTP tower for those 13 hours Doc?
I haven't seen all of the Telstra data - only a bill that shows that the phone connected to the FTP tower at 6.31am and was then billed for 13 hours of internet access (which may not mean that the towers it was connecting to didn't change during that connection time). If you know that it stayed connected to the FTP tower for the full 13 hours, I would love to know too! lease:

The Telstra records suggest that it stayed connected to the FTP tower the whole time, RLTP.

I have always thought a good way to get rid of Allison's phone would be to bury it. If it was me, I would have taken a shovel, plunge the shovel vertically into the earth, then push forward with the shovel to open a small cavity. Place the phone into the cavity and let the shovel come back. Remove the shovel. This would leave no obvious recently disturbed earth. There would be but a slit that would easily be camouflaged by the grass or vegetation. Did the police check for anything like a shovel that might have had signs of recent use? Is the boscombe road garden fenced, mowed lawn or leafy garden? Would a metal detector pick up an iphone?

Yes - a metal detector would pick it up - and there were a bazillion of those being used by police and SES who combed all over that area in minute detail. They also had an army Blackhawk helicopter using a "pinging locator" to try to pinpoint the phone - but failed.

Allison's phone was, and remains, a huge mystery to me. Even worse than the roundabout...

 

[Trooper]

Does anyone think TM knew the full extent of his financial woes? Would she really have wanted to take him on bankrupt? I guess we will find this out.

I dont think she did.. she really thought he was a hotshot, she never even saw herself as one of the factors in the business breakdown. He got away with being very devious in not showing the partners the money trail, so I dont think he would have shown , or told, Toni. no.. she was in the dream!... I imagine she gave him advice on how to handle these upstart business partners on how to handle their money.

She was probably valuable to Gerard in this particular way. She never seemed to question the money stuff.. a lot of other things, like when are you leaving her? where will you live when you leave her?? how can we make custody week the same for the two of us? ... it must have been a relief to have Toni only moaning on about these trivial matters, since everyone else on Gods earth was questioning him about the money.


Sticking my neck out, I wont be surprised if Toni pitched in some large chunks of money at some stage...and all this debt stuff, these infuriating partners who told her how it was , what Gerald is, made not a jot of difference.. He was going to marry her, and that was that. Nothing seemed to register, not staff leaving, herself being fired, business partners leaving with unseemly haste, him actually not leaving Allison, but talking about it, him having to get into Bruce Overland mode, him screaming and crying at Fleggys secretary, all the tattletale telling that went on... Jocelyn would tell Toni, Toni would tell Gerard, Phil would tell Toni, Toni would tell Jocelyn, Jocelyn and Phil would roll their eyes and shake their heads......... .noooooooo....

noooo..its amazing how a repulsively yellowjacket can seem like the garment of divinity and uprght manliness and business savvy to a certain eye.

He was, and probably still is, ( such is the determination we all have at times to just not get it, ) all the Forty Kings of France rolled into one for Toni. .

 

[Fuskier]

There's just one thing i can't seem to figure out.
Regardless of me not being able to figure it out I'm still totally convinced he is guilty.

My question is this: Yes the money would go to him on her death, which he had enquired about before and after her death.
It has been said that perhaps it was pre-planned but wasn't meant to happen that night.
With the way things panned out the murder seems to have been very disorganized... from beginning to end.
So what happened? Do we think it happened accidentally that night and he panicked and didn't remember what his plans were? ...or it happened in a way that did not even resemble the way he had planned so therefor couldn't carry it out and make himself not a suspect...<respectfuly snipped>
Well I suppose that's really a thousand questions, not just one, hey?

One thing comes to mind, that is, it could have turned out disorganised due to Allison's will to survive. She may have fought harder than expected...escaped... was recaptured, held somewhere against her will for a few hours, etc. May be it didn't go straightforward as planned. We just don't have enough details yet IMO.

 

[DrWatson]

One thing comes to mind, that is, it could have turned out disorganised due to Allison's will to survive. She may have fought harder than expected...escaped... was recaptured, held somewhere against her will for a few hours, etc. May be it didn't go straightforward as planned. We just don't have enough details yet IMO.

A very good point you make there, Fuskier - that most people are assuming that the attack on Allison by whoever did it was a single event. But looking at the times of screams, yells, phones going on charge, etc etc - it is entirely possible that they had a screaming match/fight first, then something else happened - either Allison driving off (roundabout??) and possibly returning having cooled off, or being pursued (roundabout??) - and THEN another fight that resulted in her death.

Just another among a list of possibilities - good thinking there!

 

[mrs plod]

The Telstra records suggest that it stayed connected to the FTP tower the whole time, RLTP.



Yes - a metal detector would pick it up - and there were a bazillion of those being used by police and SES who combed all over that area in minute detail. They also had an army Blackhawk helicopter using a "pinging locator" to try to pinpoint the phone - but failed.

Allison's phone was, and remains, a huge mystery to me. Even worse than the roundabout...

Did they use the metal detectors to search mummy and daddy's property? just read the skype calls report....

 

[Fuskier]

Apart from the 6 species of plant material found around the backdoor of their home, is there any evidence that links the murder to their Brookfield home.

Happygolucky, if there were The QPolice would have it to present at the Trial IMO. They would not release key evidence before the Trial.