Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #43

[drsleuth]

Does anyone have the affidavit for Olivia & Ian Walton?? Doc # 3 & 4

 

[Makara]

After reading the autopsy report, and knowing that officially there is no cause of death, I believe the jumper around her neck/over her head is significant. If she was not moved by water, then how did the jumper end up up there? Some crime experts seem to think that if the perp knows the victim or has some emotional attachment to the victim, they tend to cover the victim's face because they cannot bear to see them after killing them.

Also, it was not discounted that she could have been strangled with the jumper.

Me again. LOL. Yep, I believe the jumper is significant and I agree that perps who know the victim will often cover their faces. Allison's jumper may have ridden up when she was dragged from the car. Her hands may already have been entangled to stop her from scratching GBC any further. Or it may have been used as a ligature, as was mentioned in the report.

MOO.

 

[Makara]

Does anyone have the affidavit for Olivia & Ian Walton?? Doc # 3 & 4

Not that I know of drsleuth. That would have be re-titled Grim's Book Of Fairytales or We Of The Never, Never Gonna Tell The Truth. :what: :twocents:

 

[CaseClosed]

After reading some of the statements, I am so astounded that this man that we know as GBC did not even pretend to feel bad that his wife of 15 years, mother of his children, was missing and kept on seeking TM. His only concerns the day after was to go to doctors and try and sell more property! This guy is just incredible!!! If this case doesn't go to trial, then I don't know what is required to convince a Magistrate!

 

[CaseClosed]

Not that I know of drsleuth. That would have be re-titled Grim's Book Of Fairytales or We Of The Never, Never Gonna Tell The Truth. :what: :twocents:

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Happygolucky]

All the information has been compelling reading this week . I started making heaps of notes on variety of topics but maybe I will piece together (for my own mind) one piece of the jigsaw at a time to consider. I will leave those those incredibly damning facial scratches aside for the moment.

My first is Alison’s depression. From my notes in court in Monday and Courier Mail and Police statements I have pieced this together. Kerrie Anne Walker appeared quite reluctant to talk about Alison’s depression but with quite direct questioning by Peter Davis made a number of admissions
As a long term friend Kerrie Anne walker confirmed Alison suffered depression in 1997 as a side effect of anti-malaria drugs when travelling in South America on their honeymoon.
KA confirmed Alison Suffered post natal depression (PND) after the birth of H <modsnip> in 2001. KA confirmed there were a few occasions from 2001 onwards that Alison mentioned she was on anti-depressant medication. During the periods of depression Alison became more withdrawn and did not initiate as many catch ups. KA thought the nature of the relationship with GBC could have caused the depression.

In 2003 and 2007 Alison again suffered PND, sought help by going to GP and went back on medication.
After 2007 Alison suffered depression on various occasions. Some days were good for Alison and some days she did not feel like going out of the house.
KA admitted depression continuted early 2009. KA believed by late 2009 Alisons state of mind was &#8220;completely solid&#8221;. Then at some stage it declined again. By 2010 Alison was back on anti-depressent medication but was only taking a &#8220;small dose&#8221;. Alison went to see a counselor in 2010 KA did not know of any further depression after 2010. She said that Alison and her caught up every 2 to 4 weeks and talked often on the phone as well. However KA admitted the last time she saw Alison was on 3rd Feb 2012. She had difficulty explaining why she did not see Alison again in the 11 week period before her death. KA was overseas twice but only for one week periods. She admitted to one phone call 25th Feb and a text.

KA stated it was a surprise for her when Peter Davis put it to her that Alison had seen a doctor in May 2011 because she was worried, experiencing low mood, tearfulness and anxiety.

PD again put it to KA did she know that Alison had been to a doctor on 19th March 2012 experiencing bad mood swings and the doctor increased her Zoloft from 50mg to 100mg.
I believe the conclusion could easily be drawn that Alison was again significantly depressed and by KAs own testimony Alsion did not initiate as many catch ups when she was depressed.

(Completely unrelated to depression but significant when KA visiting the Baden Clay home on 20th April she could not help noticing 3 scratch marchs on GBCs face. She stated &#8220;they appeared to be fresh and weeping&#8221;. This could potentially place the scratches as a lot &#8220;fresher&#8221; than other experts have stated by looking at the photos.)


The evidence of Elise Nielson reported in the Courier Mail on Day 2 supported significant depression
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-of-wife-allison/story-e6freoof-1226595359813

She had an indepth discussion in 2011 with Alison when she went to a psychiatrist. Alison was adamant she was not coping.Helped convince her to go back on medication and get help with housework. Alsion was convinced G would leave her because of the depression he court heard she then asked if Allison had been taking her medication.. Elise contacted G after Alison was reported missing.
"You were thinking she had done something to herself," Mr Davis said.
"It crossed my mind," she replied.

In Gerards interview with police on the 20th he mentions Alsion&#8217;s depression. So does OW in THAT interview after G was released from hospital following his car car crash.
It was also interesting that Phillip Broom (from his statement) [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202113"]Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
Philip outlined a lot of interaction between himself G and his girls over a long period of time but rarely saw Alsion. Elaine had also discussed Alison&#8217;s depression with Philip.
With the documented marital stress (Alison&#8217;s knowledge of Gs affair etc) and financial troubles coupled with resurgence of depression, it could be argued this left Alison in a vulnerable state,.

The coroner with the autopsy report again discusses her history of depression.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202113"]Bail Hearing Documents *No Discussion* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
Of significance &#8220;2003 a psychiatrist diagnosed a moderately severe recurrence of a major depressive illness. Around this time she had been prone to transient suicidal thoughts&#8221;
On page 14 we get a clue of a possible line that the defence will take regards potential suicide. Drowning was considered a possible cause of death. Injuries from a height also need to be considered. The coroner notes that Alison&#8217;s body was found directly under the bridge &#8220;there would have been some movement of the body after impacat with ground or water. This could have been by herslf, by another person or by the tide&#8230;.. &#8220; He also noted that if Alson fell into the water the degree of injuries could be less.

From the evidence regards Zoloft levels, I think an overdose of Zoloft may be dead in the water however Peter Davis was keen on the sessions I saw on Monday to establish how Coroner came to conclusions regards &#8220;safe&#8221; Zoloft levels. I am sure some more ferreting in the medical literature will occur to try and come up with that potential.

 

[Strangeworld]

Reading Ben Bassingthwaite's statement - page 9. Regarding texts sent from GBC to Ben on 21 April 2012.

I find it odd that GBC seems to refer to finding Allison, not her coming home. If a loved one of mine was missing, I would be more likely to be hoping, praying, wishing that the person would 'come home'. I wouldn't be thinking 'finding them' as if they were lost property. I guess everyone is different, and some may use this language even though I don't think I would. Just strange.

 

[Strangeworld]

Reading Ben Bassingthwaite's statement - page 9. Regarding texts sent from GBC to Ben on 21 April 2012.

I find it odd that GBC seems to refer to finding Allison, not her coming home. If a loved one of mine was missing, I would be more likely to be hoping, praying, wishing that the person would 'come home'. I wouldn't be thinking 'finding them' as if they were lost property. I guess everyone is different, and some may use this language even though I don't think I would. Just strange.

Also, page 10 of the same statement, Ben was speaking to NBC on 22 April 2012, the day GBC had the accident. EBC asked NBC who he was talking to, as they were waiting to hear how GBC was after the accident.

My thoughts - if a loved one of mine was involved in an accident, straight after his wife has gone missing, I would not be sitting at home waiting to hear how he is. I would be driving to either the crash site, or to the hospital. Again, strange behaviour to me.

 

[drsleuth]

Not that I know of drsleuth. That would have be re-titled Grim's Book Of Fairytales or We Of The Never, Never Gonna Tell The Truth. :what: :twocents:

Thanks Makara :floorlaugh:

 

[Makara]

The 4:17am call from the office occurred on the morning of Thursday 19 April. This was before Allison had her hair done at the hairdresser on that same afternoon/evening. It is what was happening on the evening of the 19 April and into the early hours of Friday 20 April that was of most interest to police.

I'm not sure why a call was made to GBC's phone from his office at that hour of the morning. A wake-up call perhaps?

BBM.

MOO.

 

[Flinders]

Post not necessary.

 

[CaseClosed]

I would like to know one person in this World who has not felt depressed at one or more stages in their lives or who has not have suicidal thoughts cross their mind at least once. I have been through 2 divorces and 2 extended periods of involuntary unemployment in my life .. and I have felt depressed for many moths, I have felt like crying all the time, I have felt like staying at home and not going anywhere, etc. I did not seek medical advise nor did I take any medication, but got over it in time. I believe most people have some periods like these in their lives and find ways to cope.

We know Allison was married to a selfish and self-centered man, who cheated on her more than once, probably paid her little attention (if he was going back to work in the evenings after putting the girls to bed), she had no money, etc. No wonder she felt miserable! Did she need medication? I don't know. Did the meds help her feel better? Probably. I am a bit concerned that, again, like in other criminal cases, the victim is painted in a bad light. IMO.

 

[Maigret]

The 4:17am call from the office occurred on the morning of Thursday 19 April. This was before Allison had her hair done at the hairdresser on that same afternoon/evening. It is what was happening on the evening of the 19 April and into the early hours of Friday 20 April that was of most interest to police.

I'm not sure why a call was made to GBC's phone from his office at that hour of the morning. A wake-up call perhaps?

BBM.

MOO.

I know I posted a follow up - my bad

 

[drsleuth]

No matter what anti-depressant you took, none of them would make you feel "happy" having to live with GBC day in, day out :furious:

Hope you are in peace now Allison :tears:

 

[Strangeworld]

OMG, to me it sounds like he was almost flirting with Dr Candice Bevan. The hide of him handing over his business card and saying he might be able to help her with her looking for a place closer to work. Didn't even appear distressed???? Mate, your wife is missing.... oh that's right you already know where she is. don't you?<modsnip>

What scares me most about his behaviour when handing over the business card is IF he murdered Allison, how was he able to act so enthusiastic about potential business 24 hours after his wife is killed? I believe IF he killed Allison, and Dr Bevan's account of what happened did occur, it suggests psychopathic, or at the very least, sociopathic, tendencies.

 

[BJsleuth]

Dr Watson, "left inner chest wall" could the hemorrhage there be from resuscitation attempts?

 

[BJsleuth]

Re: early morning phonecall from GBC's office to home. Could it have been the alarm going off there?

 

[linette]

What scares me most about his behaviour when handing over the business card is IF he murdered Allison, how was he able to act so enthusiastic about potential business 24 hours after his wife is killed? I believe IF he killed Allison, and Dr Bevan's account of what happened did occur, it suggests psychopathic, or at the very least, sociopathic, tendencies.

The visit even rang alarm bells for the doctor. How dumb is this guy?? Her saying how he seemed quite ok, just anxious at first and in a hurry, and trying to sell her property...I think he was trying to flirt with her. How pathetic is he?

She even made a longer appt thinking she'd be helping him with grief or something. No!! Just his scratches.

 

[BJsleuth]

There were quite a few police there KG1 and I'm sure they were keeping an eye on him. He tried to load the vacuum cleaner and a hose into the back of his car and one of the policemen told him not to. :rocker: Olivia Walton was the only one who left the house to take the girls to school and returned about 45 minutes later. It is also interesting to note that Olivia Walton's reply when asked what Gerard had told the girls was "that Allison had fallen down a hole and won't be coming back. Is that alright."

"Is that alright" has been omitted in MSM reports. :banghead: To me it smacks of sarcasm on Olivia's part. Just a senseless and ridiculous comment to the police officer who was attending the missing person's call for her beloved sister-in-law. :furious: That same police officer who is now in ill health which may affect his career.

BBM:

MOO.

That is what I suspected, a sarcastic remark. A very stupid yet callous thing to say under the circumstances.

 

[Maigret]

What scares me most about his behaviour when handing over the business card is IF he murdered Allison, how was he able to act so enthusiastic about potential business 24 hours after his wife is killed? I believe IF he killed Allison, and Dr Bevan's account of what happened did occur, it suggests psychopathic, or at the very least, sociopathic, tendencies.

I totally agree - his sister seems to be completely in his thrall - shades of childhood games etc maybe ....