Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #47

[Couldbe]

As per the Autopsy Report Allison's hands remained in the sleeves of the jumper which was mostly inside-out, and it was also stated that there was pink polish on the fingernails, which was worn and absent in areas. Many of the fingernails were detached and still within the sleeves of the jumper (although one from the right hand was not found); but all of the identified nails were sent for DNA testing.
My hope is that the fingernail evidence will be sufficient to show that they established DNA which can be linked to GBC.
Unless I am missing seeing it, I could find no reference to Allison's arms in the Report ...... however, I am assuming that it is just that there was nothing reported on them. I find it a bit strange that the arms would not be examined for bruising or the like in the event of someone holding her by the arms in a struggle! JMO

 

[they'll get you]

Ms Reeves said she also tested matter found beneath Allison's fingernails to see if she could find any DNA matches.

She said she got one incomplete DNA profile but it was unsuitable for DNA profiling.

Ms Reeves said cells could break down during decomposition and could be washed off if the body was submerged in water.

The court has previously heard Allison's body was so decomposed that a cause of death could not be identified.
http://www.qt.com.au/news/mistress-tells-court-baden-clays-lie-low-request/1795712/

 

[AAAA]

Is anybody in court today? Ans if there is a media gag order does that also refer to forums like these?

 

[BreakingNews]

Back in court. Counsellor giving evidence. Nothing new really. Just same issues as her diary.

Sent from my ZTE T81 using Tapatalk

 

[Strangeworld]

Back in court. Counsellor giving evidence. Nothing new really. Just same issues as her diary.

Sent from my ZTE T81 using Tapatalk

Thank you SOOOO much for doing this BreakingNews!! :loveyou:

Just out of curiosity, what age would you estimate the counsellor is. Who is questioning her and does she appear nervous or confident.

 

[Fuskier]

Matt Macklin ‏@Matt_Macklin456
Accused murderer Gerard Baden-Clay in court again today with a judge to determine which evidence can be heard in the trial (ABC journalist www.abc.net.au/brisbane)

Shelley Lloyd ‏@shelleymlloyd
Day 2 of a pre-trial hearing in the Supreme Court in Bris today for accused wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay. @abcnews @612brisbane

 

[Fuskier]

Tessa Scott ‏@TessaScott9 2m
Supreme Court hears evidence from Baden-Clay's marriage counsellor ahead of June murder trial. What she said tonight on @9NewsBrisbane

IMO there seems to be plenty of media present covering this pre-trial hearing i.e: all the major news journalists, networks etc.

 

[alioop]

Pretrial hearing is finished. Only Carmel Ritchie on today. She was a good witness. Softly spoken but very clear in her evidence. She spent most of second session on 16 april 2012 with gbc convincing him if he wanted to save his marriage he had to listen to Allisons pain for 10 to 15 mins every second day until next session. None was ever booked. He didnt want to talk about it as felt that was regressing over the past and he wanted to go forward. No non publicatication order so MSM will provide more details. There were no bombshells, Carmel said both of them said they wanted to work on their marriage. Most of the things Allison told her were as Allison had listed in her diary. Carmel said Allison told her she was over the moon that she had spent most of the hour session with g as the plan was half hour with him then half hour with both.

 

[Mountain Misst]

Pretrial hearing is finished. Only Carmel Ritchie on today. She was a good witness. Softly spoken but very clear in her evidence. She spent most of second session with gbc convincing him if he wanted to save his marriage he had to listen to Allisons pain for 10 to 15 mins every second day until next session. None was ever booked. He didnt want to talk about it as felt that was regressing over the past and he wanted to go forward. No non publicatication order so MSM will provide more details. There were no bombshells, Carmel said both of them said they wanted to work on their marriage. Most of the things Allison told her were as Allison had listed in her diary. Carmel said Allison told her she was over the moon that she had spent most of the hour session with g as the plan was half hour with him then half hour with both.

Cheers Alioop and those in attendance. :loveyou:

 

[Strangeworld]

Pretrial hearing is finished. Only Carmel Ritchie on today. She was a good witness. Softly spoken but very clear in her evidence. She spent most of second session with gbc convincing him if he wanted to save his marriage he had to listen to Allisons pain for 10 to 15 mins every second day until next session. None was ever booked. He didnt want to talk about it as felt that was regressing over the past and he wanted to go forward. No non publicatication order so MSM will provide more details. There were no bombshells, Carmel said both of them said they wanted to work on their marriage. Most of the things Allison told her were as Allison had listed in her diary. Carmel said Allison told her she was over the moon that she had spent most of the hour session with g as the plan was half hour with him then half hour with both.

BBM (thanks for the details alioop!)

I really wonder who determined this would be good therapy. Did Allison request this time each day with GBC to go over her pain, or did Carmel suggest it. It just seems like a very negative approach to couples counselling from my experiences with couples.

Of course getting the negative feelings out can be therapeutic, but IMO it would be best served by a good dose of positivity after this type of 'exercise'. (to be honest, I disagree totally with the idea that Allison and GBC go home and do this - potential for escalation of emotion and very risky). Regardless of what was happening in their marriage, inflicting more negativity on the other party can be detrimental IMO.

 

[alioop]

It was Carmels advice to do the 15 mins. Only Allison was to talk and GBC had to listen. It took nearly an hour for her to get him to agree to do this.

Ignore blue smiley. I on my tiny phone and pressing things I shouldnt

 

[Strangeworld]

Thanks Ali. Wow. Absolutely don't want to blame the counsellor, but can you imagine what GBC must have felt like to not only agree to this (obviously he didn't because it took a session to convince him), but what it would have felt like for anyone to have sit and listen like that.

-couples therapy should be that - not just one-way talking
-if you need a whole session to convince a client to do something, why on earth would you do it in this situation. GBC was a client as much as Allison was.
-I think GBC would have been steaming mad to have been forced to agree to something like this
-if the counsellor really thought this was a good idea, it should have been done in the confines of the session. What made her think Allison had the strength and GBC had the restraint for this to work

I really do want to say again I don't blame the counsellor at all for any of this. I just think it was an ill-conceived exercise IMO. Can't wait to read the MSM articles.

 

[BreakingNews]

Alioop has put this better than I would have. We were wondering when or if the 15 min thing happened . Supposed to be every second note.

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[Fuskier]

Elizabeth Tilley ‏@liztilley84 5m
Gerard and Allison Baden-Clay's marriage counsellor has given evidence ahead of the accused wife killer's upcoming murder trial @skynewsaust

 

[Makara]

Thanks Ali. Wow. Absolutely don't want to blame the counsellor, but can you imagine what GBC must have felt like to not only agree to this (obviously he didn't because it took a session to convince him), but what it would have felt like for anyone to have sit and listen like that.

-couples therapy should be that - not just one-way talking
-if you need a whole session to convince a client to do something, why on earth would you do it in this situation. GBC was a client as much as Allison was.
-I think GBC would have been steaming mad to have been forced to agree to something like this
-if the counsellor really thought this was a good idea, it should have been done in the confines of the session. What made her think Allison had the strength and GBC had the restraint for this to work

I really do want to say again I don't blame the counsellor at all for any of this. I just think it was an ill-conceived exercise IMO. Can't wait to read the MSM articles.

I totally agree Strangeworld.

 

[alioop]

Perhaps their first 15 mins was tues night when Allison had him draw the plan of Tonis unit. Then the next one, 2 days later would have been the thursday night that police say he killed her. The obvious question is did that venting session end up in Allisons death.

Lovely to hang out with you these last couple of days BN.

 

[they'll get you]

Thanks Ali. Wow. Absolutely don't want to blame the counsellor, but can you imagine what GBC must have felt like to not only agree to this (obviously he didn't because it took a session to convince him), but what it would have felt like for anyone to have sit and listen like that.

-couples therapy should be that - not just one-way talking
-if you need a whole session to convince a client to do something, why on earth would you do it in this situation. GBC was a client as much as Allison was.
-I think GBC would have been steaming mad to have been forced to agree to something like this
-if the counsellor really thought this was a good idea, it should have been done in the confines of the session. What made her think Allison had the strength and GBC had the restraint for this to work

I really do want to say again I don't blame the counsellor at all for any of this. I just think it was an ill-conceived exercise IMO. Can't wait to read the MSM articles.

I agree with you Strangeworld-
On the opposite page the handwriting changes
the words there, according to police, are Gerard Baden-Clay's handwriting.
The page is a drawing showing the floor plan of his lover's home - sketched for an emotional wife desperate for answers.
An area of "bedroom one" has been circled.
The Crown says the drawing is significant. It is further proof, they say, that Allison and her husband were talking about the affair in the hours before her death.
The defence say the drawing is evidence she became so depressed, she took her own life.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-she-disappeared/story-e6freoof-1226537242449

 

[Fuskier]

I agree with you Strangeworld-
On the opposite page the handwriting changes
the words there, according to police, are Gerard Baden-Clay's handwriting.
The page is a drawing showing the floor plan of his lover's home - sketched for an emotional wife desperate for answers.
An area of "bedroom one" has been circled.
The Crown says the drawing is significant. It is further proof, they say, that Allison and her husband were talking about the affair in the hours before her death.
The defence say the drawing is evidence she became so depressed, she took her own life.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-she-disappeared/story-e6freoof-1226537242449

ABC demonstrated 'help seeking behaviour' which is the opposite of 'feeling hopeless' and turning away from help. She sought the Counsellor for assistance/support with the state of their failing marriage. This showed 'hope' to work on it in the future IMHO.

 

[Fuskier]

It was Carmels advice to do the 15 mins. Only Allison was to talk and GBC had to listen. It took nearly an hour for her to get him to agree to do this...

BBM It now appears the alleged murderer seemed resistant/reluctant to engage with the Counsellors suggested strategy to save the marriage - despite verbally saying that he wanted to save his marriage. 'Actions speak louder than words' comes to mind. The reasons for this reluctance remain unknown at this stage.

 

[wewillgetyou]

I attended today's session as well.

I thought Carmel Ritchie spoke clearly and very well. I'm sure she would have been extremely nervous. I have to say I was almost embarrassed for Alison to have her deepest thoughts and feelings being read out to a courtroom for not only GBC to hear but also members of her own family.

The idea of the 10-15 minutes every second night was so that Alison could express her feelings to GBC. He was not supposed to speak during the time but could perhaps say he was remorseful at the end, if that's how he felt.

Her ( the counsellor's ) idea of this 'venting/ expressing feelings ' every second night was that Gerard's past was currently Alison's present. So basically she needed to take time to move through it. Whereas Gerard just wanted to wipe the slate clean at that point and move forward.

I found it interesting that she said he was very conscious of his appearance ( not literally ) in the community. He was proud to be telling her he was on the P&C at school, a member of the chamber of commerce and also an award winning real estate.

It also was made note in her notes that they parented very different. Gerard had high expectations of his children and Alison. Alison hoped that the counselling would also help with her parenting.

She told the councillor she found out about the affair on the 14 Sept 2011 via a friend. She then confronted Gerard immediately.

The affair had started on the 27 August - their wedding anniversary was the 23rd August.

Will write more as I think of it. I don't take notes in court because I don't want to distract myself. so apologies if it seems all over the place.