Alternate Theories

[dexter75]

He is one person who had possible motive, the opportunity, and the means to access both her computer and voice mail, and plenty of time and means to dispose of the remains in the state they were found. He could have planted the car, the plates, the bones and returned home under the cover of darkness within 3 hours. And he would have been smart enough to disconnect the battery cable to wipe out the OBD2, in case that year vehicle stored incriminating information.

With any police investigation of this nature he would have been the FIRST person interviewed and excluded before fanning out. But with this case, once the vehicle is found on the Avery property, NOBODY looked back.

Another thing i find really odd is that he is the only one that was close to her, if not the closest, that was NOT called to testify, although he would be able to provide more valuable information about her last known whereabouts, when her vehicle was last seen, where she keeps her spare keys, WHO made the unwanted calls, who the guy was she supposedly met in Green Bay Saturday night, what she was wearing the day she went missing, etc, IMO just for starters.

But most perplexing, he stated that in the nine months they had lived together, she has never been gone overnight before. He noticed her vehicle missing Tuesday morning, but at NO time does he report her missing, or at the very least ask her parents if they had heard from her?

I believe there is a very good reason why the prosecution did not have him testify.


Farm incinerator? They did live on her parents dairy farm..

Were the BONES burned there???

Either way, shouldn't HE be interrogated for a few hours from another STATE Department? Or at LEAST interviewed??
Thoughts?


I def think it's possible Ryan or Scott killed her and one is covering for the other.

A couple of scenarios from Other groups;

Ryan's scratches on hands??

Ryan could have killed her, told Scott what he had done and Scott helped cover it up, which is why he didn't report her missing right away?

Another thing I find odd is that somebody called the media that same evening she was reported missing ( I think ) and told them that Teresa was last seen with Steve Avery. ( Or is this the Auto trader girl writing Avery's name down? Or did BOTH happen? )

The very next morning, Mike, Ryan and Scott organized a search for her near the Avery property.

This forced the police, media and public to focus all their attention directly at the Avery property and nowhere else.

I think the cops found all the evidence in the quarry possibly and they were the ones who took them and put them closer to averys...otherwise if they didnt plant them why wouldnt they just let all the right people take the case over as they would in any homicide...they didnt want to have the area mapped out and recorded...that also explains the different locations of the bones....the cops found them in the quarry and didnt think it would be good enough to pin avery so they took it upon themselves to put things on his property and in his house....

I think they put her in boot of car and put it at quarry as they knew she was at SA house that day.
Colburn finds the car calls in plate, him lenk and Herman decide to burn her body in Hermans smelter. First decide to put bones back at quarry, then realise it would be better at burn pit as they find out about the supposed fire, SO move them during their 8 day search leaving some behind by mistake as they had to do it at night.

Again,
Why would he not report her missing? She has never been away overnight before. He hadn't seen her in 3 nights and 4 days. Made no attempt to call her, or ask her parents if they knew where she was. Makes no sense.

I know many look at the above and think WOW, too much thought going into this planning.

So many that think SA is guilty are " following the evidence "

I can't do that. Not when we 100% do not know SA was the last to see her, or talk to her, or if her murder happened there or not.

Missing phone records, No crime scene photos, NO one else even INTERVIEWED at length, corrupt department, corrupt LAB, Corrupt Emails from Lawyer to prosecution CLEARLY setting up Brendan, IMO..for WHAT??

What would be the MOTIVE to set up Brendan??
For those who READ the Kachinsky emails and got REALLY pissed!!
WHY would LE and the LAWYERS and the PROSECUTION work TOGETHER to SET UP BRENDAN? For shiggles? Or to take SA's ALIBI and CRUSH it??

 

[dexter75]

And Steve said it
" Just like the first time.... "

 

[missy1974]

Martinez: According to Earl, he was at the Salvage yard the day the RAV4 was found. Was he there Monday the 31st? we don't know. Could he have followed her when she left that day? Could he have ran her off the road? His comments after being arrested are pretty sketchy.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...s-Statement-on-Third-Party-Responsibility.pdf

RH - he didn't tell LE that he was an exbf. According to Wiegert's summary, he was given a list of numbers that TH called that day, but instead of Barb's number being identified as B.Janda, it was identified as being Steve Avery (how does that happen?).

Zipperer - the old man was yelling at LE because they were asking him about a missing girl? really? who does that? I am not convinced that she was at SA's after Zipperer's.... thanks to Joellen and her terrible concept of time. TH left a message saying she was having troubles finding their place.... maybe she went to SA's and then back to Zipperers? it wasn't that far away and rather than waste time looking, she went to Avery's. 2:12 she called Zipperers.... according to Dawn with AutoTrader, she was on her way to Avery's at 2:27. So after leaving the message it was what... 2:13? oh... then she called her voicemail afterwards, so in 14 minutes, she called her voicemail, she found the residence, got out of her SUV, had her camera, etc. found Mrs.Z to see if it was the right place, Mrs.Z shows her where the car is... they talk, and TH is on her way?

 

[missy1974]

And Steve said it
" Just like the first time.... "

hmmm... what was their motive the first time? They just didn't like him? his cousin was married to a MCSD employee at the time he ran her off the road, right? What was their underlying motive the first time?

 

[angelainwi]

Totally the ex-boyfriend

 

[missy1974]

And dexter.... Kachinsky is the last attorney on record for Martinez

 

[dexter75]

And I am actually hat free today:happydance:

Martinez: According to Earl, he was at the Salvage yard the day the RAV4 was found. Was he there Monday the 31st? we don't know. Could he have followed her when she left that day? Could he have ran her off the road? His comments after being arrested are pretty sketchy.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...s-Statement-on-Third-Party-Responsibility.pdf

RH - he didn't tell LE that he was an exbf. According to Wiegert's summary, he was given a list of numbers that TH called that day, but instead of Barb's number being identified as B.Janda, it was identified as being Steve Avery (how does that happen?).

Zipperer - the old man was yelling at LE because they were asking him about a missing girl? really? who does that? I am not convinced that she was at SA's after Zipperer's.... thanks to Joellen and her terrible concept of time. TH left a message saying she was having troubles finding their place.... maybe she went to SA's and then back to Zipperers? it wasn't that far away and rather than waste time looking, she went to Avery's. 2:12 she called Zipperers.... according to Dawn with AutoTrader, she was on her way to Avery's at 2:27. So after leaving the message it was what... 2:13? oh... then she called her voicemail afterwards, so in 14 minutes, she called her voicemail, she found the residence, got out of her SUV, had her camera, etc. found Mrs.Z to see if it was the right place, Mrs.Z shows her where the car is... they talk, and TH is on her way?

 

[dexter75]

OH MY:gasp:

And dexter.... Kachinsky is the last attorney on record for Martinez

 

[dexter75]

I honestly think SA was one of those punk trouble maker types, no common sense and just didn't THINK.
He DID break laws, and to top it off, the one cousin of his, HATED him.
Therefor, she went and cried wolf to her Sheriff husband.

I don't know about the family name. I'm sure, though, if a few of them ARE sex offenders that doesn't help their reputation either.

I SWEAR UNLESS YOU HAVE WITNESSED THIS, YOU WILL NEVER BELIEVE IT;
Once the cops have you pegged in certain towns, TRUST ME, they have you. I KNOW this. I have WITNESSED this.

hmmm... what was their motive the first time? They just didn't like him? his cousin was married to a MCSD employee at the time he ran her off the road, right? What was their underlying motive the first time?

 

[LifeCitizen]

Interesting that out of everyone who has posted so far, noone can go past RH.

Good post #81

 

[missy1974]

Interesting that out of everyone who has posted, noone can go past RH.

Good post #81

yep, and I think that is because for the most part, it's the one's closest to the victim. Not always... but I think a lot of us that follow missing person cases, we look at the husband/wife/bf/whoever first, right?

I can't wrap my head around her last call at 2:41 still. The indication is that incoming calls were then forwarded to her VM.... why would she do that??? Could someone who could uhmmm "guess" her password do that remotely from a computer? (I think so back in 2005) Would someone know that if her phone was forwarded to VM, it wouldn't ping anymore? Would it ping still? (wish we had those records!!!!!) That CFNA code really bothers me, I wish we had more phone records for her and could see if this was something she would do... and maybe understand why she would do that? I could see her doing it when she was doing photo's at a wedding or something, not to be bothered by a ringing phone, I don't know why she would do it randomly in the middle of the afternoon though. And she sure did check her voicemail lots... even when it seems she had no calls in between her last call and her checking her VM.

 

[Dr. Phail]

Zipperer - the old man was yelling at LE because they were asking him about a missing girl? really? who does that?

Z was angry because his Grandson had been arrested 3 days prior behind a circumstance Z felt could have & should have been handled without the kid getting arrested. Z's behavior was due to this.

I am not convinced that she was at SA's after Zipperer's.... thanks to Joellen and her terrible concept of time. TH left a message saying she was having troubles finding their place.... maybe she went to SA's and then back to Zipperers? it wasn't that far away and rather than waste time looking, she went to Avery's. 2:12 she called Zipperers.... according to Dawn with AutoTrader, she was on her way to Avery's at 2:27. So after leaving the message it was what... 2:13? oh... then she called her voicemail afterwards, so in 14 minutes, she called her voicemail, she found the residence, got out of her SUV, had her camera, etc. found Mrs.Z to see if it was the right place, Mrs.Z shows her where the car is... they talk, and TH is on her way?

Good for you. The recorded call between Remiker & Weigert got released wherein these Detectives are speculating Z stop may have come after Avery's and this caused many people to post that Avery's was not her last stop.

This has led to the now widely held belief that Z's was her last stop, based solely on 2 Detective's spitballin', discussing what possibilty exists in regards to her timeframe. People hear what they want to hear. Just like Edward Edwards being responsible for TH's murder to frame SA it is unlikely that we will ever shed this "Z's was her last stop" DisInfo spread by people simply re-posting as absolute known Truth info that is anything but that.

Most who have adopted the Z's was her last stop not Avery's belief cannot now be convinced otherwise, they will not hear of it....same with The Edwards/Cameron trying to sell books Theory. If we are Mired its because of things such as these.

2:12 TH at Z's doesn't see car she is s'posed to Photo, tries to call Z's: VM. 2:13 TH checks her own VM and as doing so spots Mrs. Z in yard raking leaves, gets guided to where car is 2:15 -2:24 she photos car then begins drive to Avery's 2:27 Dawn from AT calls 4 minute + "Goodbye" call wherein TH says she is almost to Avery's...yet another perfectly fitting piece into the puzzle that when formed reveals the picture of Avery Guilty, Manitowoc, Kocourek, Kusche and possibly others....off the hook for potential $36MIL and life altering court verdicts as result of SA Litigation behind initial 18 year incarceration..

Worthwile to note that Mrs. Z statement to Police = vastly different than her testimony and conflicts (to some degree anyways) timeline I present...

2:41:59 call designated CFNA = KEY to define what action is necessary to cause CFNA to be there + what CFNA actually indicates i.e. did she forward her calls at that point or not? No one knows, remarkably, here almost 2 months in....exactly what CFNA indicates....just speculation exists on this, one would think there is someone somehwhere on the Earth who was a Cell Engineer in 2005 who could answer this but apparently not.

Verify accuracy of assertion that TH cremains = only 40% of human body, if accurate where are the other 60% + only 7 Loci ID? FBI demands 13 Loci for positive ID, yes? Who's bones were these really?

Carmen's? Prolly not as she died Nov 3 (in Maribel? Manitowoc? Or another place that starts with "M"?) and to use her bones would be to "improvise" a body on the fly admist the unfolding scenario so thats a bit far fetched + if TH tissue was available sampling so as to fake the bones were hers why wasn't some of her blood drawn and used? Painted all over the Bedroom & Garage?

Why is the testimony of so many people within this case so vastly different from their inital statements to Police? Was there a bonfire that night or wasn't there? That does not seem complex, to recall if there was a fire or not yet multiple people find it very hard to settle upon one story. Either there was a fire or not and Mrs. Z, regarding TH's visit, seems like she is testifying to an entirely different event altogether...describing completely different things than what she did in her initial statement....is this phenomenon due to these people just having very low IQs or some other reason?

Definitely a Trippy Case here...one of a kind, thats for sure.

 

[missy1974]

Hi Dr. Phail... I don't want to quote your whole post, but just wanted to address a few things.

I have heard the rumour about Mr.Z's grandson, and actually, I got the impression that Mr.Z is just always like that LOL It's also been speculated (not here) that Mr.Z would have been extra ticked that someone was on his property after that arrest.

As for her timeline... and if she was at Zipperer's before or after Avery's.... some of us here anyway were wondering about her timeline long before that call between Remiker and Weigert was online. I think it just added to that confusion and made it that much more unclear for some.

I've read speculation about Carmen (or her remains)..... it was in Manitowoc... I think the 5th? It is brought up in the calls to dispatch (the dispatch woman's neighbour) I don't think it's possible, but who knows.

I am not sure about the statements.... but after reading so many discrepancies as time went on.... I only partially rely on their first interviews ( I really don't know which versions are true LOL)

ETA: I'm not sure about FBI requirements... will look that up when I have a minute thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Dr. Phail]

Yes Missy...you'll notice I try to phrase stuff with "it has been said" or other such advance discalimers due to so much DisInfo out there....example: the FBI 13 Loci deal....if it's true then 7 Loci should not have been ample to establish concrete ID and, some say....presentation within Court that these were TH's remains should not have been allowed in.

Nedless to say....Zellner & Tricia Bushnell are all over this Insufficient Loci deal along with many other facets of this case.....

...I needed to chime in after so long inactive on WS to congratulate you on actively questioning the Z's was her last stop conclusion that so many have reached as one hardly sees anyone doing that anymore....the masses just accept this now....based mostly or even solely upon that phone call 'tween Rem & Weig lol.

Another curious thing is the positioning of The RAV upon that slight ridge....such that (morbidly) its almost as though "presentation" was desired by whoever put it in that particular place as it is said.....upon that slight ridge as it was and within eye-line of entry to Avery's....it's almost like whoever put it there was being quite "bold" in doing so....sort of like a "show"...if you get what I am trying to say, like "In Your FACE" type boldness.....that positioning.....arguably anyways....interesting choice of where/how to position that RAV....

 

[missy1974]

I agree Dr. Phail with a lot of what you have said ;-)

I find the "innocent" because I watched a 10 hour documentary and clicked on a few links online as bad as the "guilty" because a jury convicted him side. There is so much that I question in this case, and it might just be that we haven't been able to see or read everything yet.

I think it was yesterday.... I said that I do feel validated in my questions, since it seems that Zellner seems to have some too, and she's uhmm pretty good at what she does from all I have read about her LOL

*sarcasm* I don't know what you are talking about with the RAV4.... it was so discreetly hidden with the hood leaning up against it and the branches all around .... and lets not forget the one branch on top! *endsarcasm*

I was reading testimony today.... it sounds like that whole property was like a "bowl" the north side was level (where SA/Dassey residence was)... then the middle dipped down.... then back up where the RAV4 was found. So when Sturm said she seen someone by the buildings from where she was.... I can see how she could have seen a "figure" in the distance looking over to where they were.

 

[ElleElle]

He is one person who had possible motive, the opportunity, and the means to access both her computer and voice mail, and plenty of time and means to dispose of the remains in the state they were found. He could have planted the car, the plates, the bones and returned home under the cover of darkness within 3 hours. And he would have been smart enough to disconnect the battery cable to wipe out the OBD2, in case that year vehicle stored incriminating information.

With any police investigation of this nature he would have been the FIRST person interviewed and excluded before fanning out. But with this case, once the vehicle is found on the Avery property, NOBODY looked back.

Another thing i find really odd is that he is the only one that was close to her, if not the closest, that was NOT called to testify, although he would be able to provide more valuable information about her last known whereabouts, when her vehicle was last seen, where she keeps her spare keys, WHO made the unwanted calls, who the guy was she supposedly met in Green Bay Saturday night, what she was wearing the day she went missing, etc, IMO just for starters.

But most perplexing, he stated that in the nine months they had lived together, she has never been gone overnight before. He noticed her vehicle missing Tuesday morning, but at NO time does he report her missing, or at the very least ask her parents if they had heard from her?

I believe there is a very good reason why the prosecution did not have him testify.


Farm incinerator? They did live on her parents dairy farm..

Were the BONES burned there???

Either way, shouldn't HE be interrogated for a few hours from another STATE Department? Or at LEAST interviewed??
Thoughts?


I def think it's possible Ryan or Scott killed her and one is covering for the other.

A couple of scenarios from Other groups;

Ryan's scratches on hands??

Ryan could have killed her, told Scott what he had done and Scott helped cover it up, which is why he didn't report her missing right away?

Another thing I find odd is that somebody called the media that same evening she was reported missing ( I think ) and told them that Teresa was last seen with Steve Avery. ( Or is this the Auto trader girl writing Avery's name down? Or did BOTH happen? )

The very next morning, Mike, Ryan and Scott organized a search for her near the Avery property.

This forced the police, media and public to focus all their attention directly at the Avery property and nowhere else.

I think the cops found all the evidence in the quarry possibly and they were the ones who took them and put them closer to averys...otherwise if they didnt plant them why wouldnt they just let all the right people take the case over as they would in any homicide...they didnt want to have the area mapped out and recorded...that also explains the different locations of the bones....the cops found them in the quarry and didnt think it would be good enough to pin avery so they took it upon themselves to put things on his property and in his house....

I think they put her in boot of car and put it at quarry as they knew she was at SA house that day.
Colburn finds the car calls in plate, him lenk and Herman decide to burn her body in Hermans smelter. First decide to put bones back at quarry, then realise it would be better at burn pit as they find out about the supposed fire, SO move them during their 8 day search leaving some behind by mistake as they had to do it at night.

Again,
Why would he not report her missing? She has never been away overnight before. He hadn't seen her in 3 nights and 4 days. Made no attempt to call her, or ask her parents if they knew where she was. Makes no sense.

I know many look at the above and think WOW, too much thought going into this planning.

So many that think SA is guilty are " following the evidence "

I can't do that. Not when we 100% do not know SA was the last to see her, or talk to her, or if her murder happened there or not.

Missing phone records, No crime scene photos, NO one else even INTERVIEWED at length, corrupt department, corrupt LAB, Corrupt Emails from Lawyer to prosecution CLEARLY setting up Brendan, IMO..for WHAT??

What would be the MOTIVE to set up Brendan??
For those who READ the Kachinsky emails and got REALLY pissed!!
WHY would LE and the LAWYERS and the PROSECUTION work TOGETHER to SET UP BRENDAN? For shiggles? Or to take SA's ALIBI and CRUSH it??

:cheers:

Excellent post! My thoughts exactly.

 

[ElleElle]

I honestly think SA was one of those punk trouble maker types, no common sense and just didn't THINK.
He DID break laws, and to top it off, the one cousin of his, HATED him.
Therefor, she went and cried wolf to her Sheriff husband.

I don't know about the family name. I'm sure, though, if a few of them ARE sex offenders that doesn't help their reputation either.

I SWEAR UNLESS YOU HAVE WITNESSED THIS, YOU WILL NEVER BELIEVE IT;
Once the cops have you pegged in certain towns, TRUST ME, they have you. I KNOW this. I have WITNESSED this.

I agree. There are plenty of people out there like that. Does not make them a rapist or murderer.

 

[MysticJynx]

Yes Missy...you'll notice I try to phrase stuff with "it has been said" or other such advance discalimers due to so much DisInfo out there....example: the FBI 13 Loci deal....if it's true then 7 Loci should not have been ample to establish concrete ID and, some say....presentation within Court that these were TH's remains should not have been allowed in.

Nedless to say....Zellner & Tricia Bushnell are all over this Insufficient Loci deal along with many other facets of this case.....

...I needed to chime in after so long inactive on WS to congratulate you on actively questioning the Z's was her last stop conclusion that so many have reached as one hardly sees anyone doing that anymore....the masses just accept this now....based mostly or even solely upon that phone call 'tween Rem & Weig lol.

Another curious thing is the positioning of The RAV upon that slight ridge....such that (morbidly) its almost as though "presentation" was desired by whoever put it in that particular place as it is said.....upon that slight ridge as it was and within eye-line of entry to Avery's....it's almost like whoever put it there was being quite "bold" in doing so....sort of like a "show"...if you get what I am trying to say, like "In Your FACE" type boldness.....that positioning.....arguably anyways....interesting choice of where/how to position that RAV....

BBM
I actually thought Z was the last stop long before I heard that call. I was going by the drive times, that had me curious. Seemed the state was shoving all her appointments in and not considering her drive times. From where she was near New Holestein Google suggested 45 minutes. So Then I questioned how she did all her appointments and drives with the other calls that came in that day, that we know about. And I suspected that GZ was probably last on her stop list. Seemed more plausible to me that he was the last stop. And I still don't know for sure. I think she had a house phone. And curious why did they not take a recording of the supposed message left on the GZ's voicemail? And I want to read the other investigators reports. That might help.

And as for RH. He certainly lead them right to where she was. He was a real good detective, putting SA's name next to BJ's Number. And then OH Leaving off the last two calls leaving the police (even in that call you talk about) thinking her last call that day was at 2:27. Media was claiming he was the last stop before the police even put that together, Who do think was feeding info to the media. Sheriff GP did not say that he said last seen in that area.

JMO

http://wbay.com/2016/01/07/video-nov-4-2005-avery-appointment-was-halbachs-last-stop/

 

[ElleElle]

yep, and I think that is because for the most part, it's the one's closest to the victim. Not always... but I think a lot of us that follow missing person cases, we look at the husband/wife/bf/whoever first, right?

I can't wrap my head around her last call at 2:41 still. The indication is that incoming calls were then forwarded to her VM.... why would she do that??? Could someone who could uhmmm "guess" her password do that remotely from a computer? (I think so back in 2005) Would someone know that if her phone was forwarded to VM, it wouldn't ping anymore? Would it ping still? (wish we had those records!!!!!) That CFNA code really bothers me, I wish we had more phone records for her and could see if this was something she would do... and maybe understand why she would do that? I could see her doing it when she was doing photo's at a wedding or something, not to be bothered by a ringing phone, I don't know why she would do it randomly in the middle of the afternoon though. And she sure did check her voicemail lots... even when it seems she had no calls in between her last call and her checking her VM.

Is it possible she was 1/2 and 1/2 in between towers and briefly got reception?

 

[missy1974]

Is it possible she was 1/2 and 1/2 in between towers and briefly got reception?

Honestly ElleElle... I don't know. All I know is that is the only call that we see on her records that has the code CFNA. (Call Forward No answer) Did she activate that? it required buttons to be pressed.... was her phone capable of hitting 'ignore' sending it to Voicemail? We do have access to her VM data that was introduced... unfortunately, there are a few messages that do not have the phone number calling information.... and this is one of them.

I still don't understand why no "tower" information was introduced as evidence. On both sides. It was either good for SA or bad. If it was good, the defense would want it... if it was bad, the prosecution should have wanted it... at least IMO lol