Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#10

[Amber29]

Ameile ended 9.10pm and the cartoon was opened 9.26pm. Crini is not contesting they were still at Raffaele's place at 9.26pm.... a time when the murder was over and Guede was already at the cottage.

Hmm ill have to look more into this, you say opened and I'm seeing crashed.

Not everyone agrees on the TOD, that's been established.

 

[MichaelSmith]

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Raffaele_Sollecito_Appeal.pdf

Non viene menzionata una attività di apertura file multimediale “Naruto episodio 101” avvenuta giovedì 1° novembre 2007 alle ore 21:26
[..]
In verità, effettuando la ricerca con “Spotlight” nella versione 10.4.10, è stato
individuato almeno un file “Naruto ep 101.avi” che non è presente nella
consulenza della polizia postale, ma la cui data di ultima apertura risulta giovedì
1° novembre 2007 alle ore 21:26 (cioè nel periodo preso in esame dalla polizia
postale: 1° novembre 2007 ore 18:00 – 2 novembre 2007 ore 8:00).

La data di ultimo accesso (martedì 6 novembre 2007 ore 10:18:38 ) e di ultima
modifica di tale file (martedì 6 novembre 2007 ore 13:28:09) corrisponde ad un
periodo coincidente con il prelievo del laptop dalla abitazione di Raffaele
Sollecito, periodo nel quale vengono rilevate attività sul suddetto portatile
testimoniate dai file di log di sistema.
>>

Google translate translations

<< There is mention of a business opening media "Naruto episode 101" took place on Thursday 1 November 2007 at 21:26
[..]
Indeed, by searching for "Spotlight" version 10.4.10, was
identified at least one file "Naruto ep 101.avi" that is not present in
advice of the police post, but whose last date of opening is Thursday
1 November 2007, at 21:26 (ie in the period examined by the police
Post: 1st November 2007 18:00 - November 2, 2007 at 8:00).
The date of last access (Tuesday, 6 November 2007 at 10:18:38) and last
edit that file (Tuesday, 6 November 2007 at 13:28:09) corresponds to a
period coinciding with the withdrawal of laptops from the house of Raffaele
Sollecito, a period in which activities are recorded on this laptop
evidenced by the file system log.

 

[SMK]

Yes I would probably leave that out as well, seemed quite ridiculous to me. Considering in her email about that morning iirc she said she undressed in her room,seems hard to forget your towel when you had to walk naked to the bathroom in the first place.

Yes, especially as iirc it was somewhat chilly in the cottage.

Another thing I noticed in the book, is that when she sees the broken window in F's room, she calls her mother once more, and tells her , and asks, "what should we do?". How many answers could there be to that question?

Call the police. Why would you need to call Seattle to find this out? And then she says first RS calls his sister to ask her opinion. If age 20 and 26 need a big sister and Mom to tell them to phone police, they are just big children. Or maybe they are not big children - maybe they are creating a record of stumbling on the scene and being bewildered with these calls.

 

[SMK]

Ameile ended 9.10pm and the cartoon was opened 9.26pm. Crini is not contesting they were still at Raffaele's place at 9.26pm.... a time when the murder was over and Guede was already at the cottage.

But Crini does not have the murder over at 9:20. Maybe he is willing to have an earlier TOD than 11 or midnight, but he places it more at 10.

 

[Amber29]

Yes, especially as iirc it was somewhat chilly in the cottage.

Another thing I noticed in the book, is that when she sees the broken window in F's room, she calls her mother once more, and tells her , and asks, "what should we do?". How many answers could there be to that question?

Call the police. Why would you need to call Seattle to find this out? And then she says first RS calls his sister to ask her opinion. If age 20 and 26 need a big sister and Mom to tell them to phone police, they are just big children. Or maybe they are not big children - maybe they are creating a record of stumbling on the scene and being bewildered with these calls.

Wow yes I need to read her book, maybe ill rent it from library as well.
I hope it says loosely based on a true story.

Yes I don't understand the calling everyone but the police. At that age you shouldn't need anyone to tell you that if you suspect a break in, you call the police. Maybe those calls would've made more since if made while waiting for the police. Seems IMO they stalled on calling 112 for as long as possible. Almost 2.5 hours between the shower and 112 call.

 

[MichaelSmith]

Yes I think he's reliable.

I don't know why she went in there that day, perhaps looking for something she thought they would have. I think his testimony when paired with RSs 530 comp activity and 6am phone turn on proves they were not sleeping.
Maybe she realized she may be recognized and left with nothing for that reason. I don't know.
This is my opinion.

Quintavalle was "found" by a journalist like the other witnesses.

He was questioned within days and again on November 19 and shown photographs. He said he recognised them and had seen them in his shop together two or so times but not on November 2.

He got himself on TV and said he only saw the side of her face and she was wearing a cap, scarf and grey jacket. He remembered her blue eyes even though he said he only saw the side of her face. Amanda had no grey coat and his co-worker Chiriboga said she didn't see Amanda November 2.

This is a dreadful witness and not credible at all and how he was found by Fois is highly suspicious.

 

[MichaelSmith]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2308527/Amanda-Knox-Her-account-Italian-prison-hell.html

THE SHOPKEEPER WHO 'SAW' KNOX BUY BLEACH

Much was made of the shopkeeper, Marco Quintavalle, who claimed he saw Knox and Sollecito the morning after the murder in his shop buying cleaning materials. He was one of the so-called ‘super-witnesses’, but his testimony, when tested in court, proved to be less than reliable.

When Quintavalle made his statement, it was more than a year after the murder but at a time when the prosecution needed to place Knox in a closer proximity to the murder scene and to explain why there was a lack of her DNA in Meredith’s bedroom.

Knox, declared Quintavalle, had appeared in his small shop at 7.45 the morning after the murder and he remembered her from her ‘vivid blue eyes, her blue scarf and grey coat’.

The shop was close to where Knox and Meredith lived and, according to Quintavalle, Knox was among the cleaning prodcucts. ‘She looked as if she had seen a ghost, she was so pale,’ he added.

It took me more than several months to track down Quintavalle, for he had moved soon after giving the testimony. I asked him how he had remembered the details so clearly. ‘This I can tell you was the truth,’ he said. ‘I recognised Amanda from the pictures of her.’

When I confronted him with CCTV evidence that he had not entered his shop until later than 7.45 he stumbled and claimed he might have had the time wrong.

When I told him I’d also interviewed a second person in the shop who worked part-time and who actually knew Knox – and was definite that the American had not appeared at all, Quintavalle terminated the interview.

Despite police claims that a till receipt existed for bleach found at Sollecito’s home, none was produced in court. Knox said she had never owned a blue hat or grey coat.

 

[MichaelSmith]

But Crini does not have the murder over at 9:20. Maybe he is willing to have an earlier TOD than 11 or midnight, but he places it more at 10.

If they arrived at the cottage at 9.31pm after the cartoon crashed, is 30 minutes enough for a murder sex orgy? How does it work? They walk in the door and see Guede on his date with Meredith and Raffaele says "hi, nice to meet you" and then suddenly kills a girl he barely knew with a guy he just met?

 

[SMK]

RG was not homeless. He had an apartment just down the road from RS. It was searched by the police as well. Drifter comes from his raising IMO. He had lived in Perugia since he was a child, went to school there, and played on a local basketball team. He probably had just as many ties locally at PL if not more, he had lived there longer.

I'm not defending him here, just want facts straight.

I do note though, that Guede is not an Italian national, and is thus always referred to as "the Ivorian" or "from the Ivory Coast".

But he did have ties in Perugia. His drug habits made him have problems paying his rent, etc. - hence the break-and-entry problems. Yes, he and Sollecito lived on the same street, within walking distance.

Anyway from one of Amanda's inadmissable statements:

I can’t remember if my friend Meredith was there or if she came later. We were all separate. Diya wanted Meredith.
Yes we were in the house. We were drunk. We asked her to join us.

After such a statement, how difficult is it to replace Lumumba's name with Guede's?

 

[Amber29]

Quintavalle was "found" by a journalist like the other witnesses.

He was questioned within days and again on November 19 and shown photographs. He said he recognised them and had seen them in his shop together two or so times but not on November 2.

He got himself on TV and said he only saw the side of her face and she was wearing a cap, scarf and grey jacket. He remembered her blue eyes even though he said he only saw the side of her face. Amanda had no grey coat and his co-worker Chiriboga said she didn't see Amanda November 2.

This is a dreadful witness and not credible at all and how he was found by Fois is highly suspicious.

From Massei report
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/download/file.php?id=1902

"This Court deems that the testimony of Quintavalle is reliable. It was discovered that Inspector Volturno did not ask Quintavalle if, on the morning of November 2, he saw Amanda Knox in his shop.
He was asked – so Quintavalle recalled - about purchases made by Raffaele Sollecito. Mr. Quintavalle did not say anything about having seen Amanda Knox on the morning of November 2, 2007 in his [76] shop because he was not questioned about this and because, as indicated by Quintavalle himself, he considered this fact to be insignificant."

I can understand why he didn't offer the information.

I believe the coat in this picture can be described as grey and there's a scarf there as well, maybe even a hat.
http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=21&image_id=3418

 

[MichaelSmith]

I'm supprised Crini offered the 10pm tod option because that means he's willing to ditch Nara and Toto.

 

[SMK]

If they arrived at the cottage at 9.31pm after the cartoon crashed, is 30 minutes enough for a murder sex orgy? How does it work? They walk in the door and see Guede on his date with Meredith and Raffaele says "hi, nice to meet you" and then suddenly kills a girl he barely knew with a guy he just met?

30 minutes is far more than enough for a drug fueled error and escalation. All it takes is a wrong approach, a rebuff - I think being high or drunk or both can make things escalate.

As I remarked in my above post: The statement of Amanda's was inadmissable because she had no attorney. But IF one wants to entertain an escalation, one only needs to replace Lumumba with Guede in this scenario.

It could happen in a matter of 10 mintues, more or less - the error, the escalation, the violence, the ensuing panic. Just so much speculation....

 

[SMK]

I'm supprised Crini offered the 10pm tod option because that means he's willing to ditch Nara and Toto.

Well, he makes some rambling generalization about time, how one has to be flexible, etc. In truth his argument was so long-winded I gave up on it. Something about context, etc.

 

[MichaelSmith]

From Massei report
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/download/file.php?id=1902

"This Court deems that the testimony of Quintavalle is reliable. It was discovered that Inspector Volturno did not ask Quintavalle if, on the morning of November 2, he saw Amanda Knox in his shop.
He was asked &#8211; so Quintavalle recalled - about purchases made by Raffaele Sollecito. Mr. Quintavalle did not say anything about having seen Amanda Knox on the morning of November 2, 2007 in his [76] shop because he was not questioned about this and because, as indicated by Quintavalle himself, he considered this fact to be insignificant."

I can understand why he didn't offer the information.

I believe the coat in this picture can be described as grey and there's a scarf there as well, maybe even a hat.
http://perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image_page.php?album_id=21&image_id=3418

This is why you need to read Raffaele's appeal document because it cites from the transcripts and Volturno's notes which Massei ignored that Quintavalle was shown photographs of both Amanda & Raffaele on November 19 and he denied seeing them in his store on November 2 and when they had visited his store, they were both together.

 

[aa9511]

Patrick lived there. He had his family (wife and kids) there and he owned a business there. The other three did not live there, full time. One was a drifter that had no real place to live at all (RG). One was a student from the US. One was a student from another part of the country. Of the four Patrick had close ties and conections with people that lived and worked in the area, people that could and would stand up to support him in his wrongful imprisonment.

I don't believe that Mignini just doesn't want to admit to any mistakes. I believe that it goes much deeper than that. It appears, to me, that he has some issues with how he perceives things. When a case presents itself that is really rather straightforward, he appears to instead prefer that case to have a more sinister unbelievable explaination instead. One does rely on their past in how they see things. In Mignini's case perhaps he has let his past (and what he has seen as a child) to color how sees everything around him.

MOO

You mean his experience as a prosecutor? I don't know about you all, but I have never been a detective or investigator. So I would think Mignini probably has more experience on this matter seeing as he has dealt with these things for years and years, more so than many online posters, myself I would be the first to admit this!!

 

[Amber29]

I do note though, that Guede is not an Italian national, and is thus always referred to as "the Ivorian" or "from the Ivory Coast".

But he did have ties in Perugia. His drug habits made him have problems paying his rent, etc. - hence the break-and-entry problems. Yes, he and Sollecito lived on the same street, within walking distance.

Anyway from one of Amanda's inadmissable statements:

I can’t remember if my friend Meredith was there or if she came later. We were all separate. Diya wanted Meredith.
Yes we were in the house. We were drunk. We asked her to join us.

After such a statement, how difficult is it to replace Lumumba's name with Guede's?

Yes and PL is Congolese. My point was only that RG had lived in Perugia for many years. He wasn't a homeless drifter. I think I've read he had first lived in Perugia at age 5.

 

[MichaelSmith]

http://hellmannreport.wordpress.com/contents/reasons-for-the-decision/quintavalle/

In fact it should be remembered that Mr. Quintavalle, questioned by the Police who were searching for useful information in the days immediately following the perpetration of the crime, by which time the newspapers and the media were busy working on the story on a wider scale, did not mention the girl who had waited for the opening of the store on the morning of 2 November and had then entered as soon as he had opened to the public, heading to the section where household and hygiene products were on display (even if then – according to the same Quintavalle – she left without buying anything). Nor did he come forward in the following days or in the following months to report what had happened. In fact he presented himself to the Police following continuous requests [sollecitazioni] by a young apprentice journalist who lived in the area of his store, only one year later, declaring to be convinced, thanks mostly to the color of her eyes (blue) and of her complexion (very pale), that the girl who had entered his store that morning was indeed Amanda Knox.

Hellmann goes on to quote transcript.

 

[aa9511]

Well, they had to let Lumumba go, as he had an airtight alibi.

A Swiss professor came all the way back from Zurich to Perugia to attest to Patrick's being at the bar all evening on Nov 1.

It was too public, and there was no DNA at all of Patrick's at the cottage, (he had never been there, while Amanda lived there and Raffaelle had visited) while there was ample evidence of Guede's.

Yes, I believed I addressed these issues in my post.

My point being, that if this is all a supposed witch-hunt on Amanda and RS, then by necessity, all the evidence they have pointing towards their guilt must be "false," in that scenario.

So people say, well this evidence, you see, they have just made up this evidence or misinterpreted it. And they have done various things to make Amanda and RS appear more guilty, such as going "lighter" on Rudy in interrogations, so that he wouldn't tell the truth and wouldn't close the possiblity of Amanda and RS being involved.

My point was, if they went to such extreme lengths on Amanda and RS, they could certainly have done the same with Patrick.

Such as, hide away Swiss professor's alibi for Patrick - that was my exxageration of, throw his papers into the fire. Make them disappear. Patrick alibi, what alibi??

Second, invent evidence to make him look guilty like they supposedly did with Amanda and RS.

Plant some of his DNA in places such as the bra strap, like they suppoedly did with RS.

Attribute one or two of the footprints to him, to place him at the scene, like they supposedly did with RS.

Exxagerate the text and make it appear like he was going to meet Amanda, like it is suggested police did with Amanda which made her "come up" with the false accusation.

Oh, and let's not forget, BIG EVIDENCE - Amanda's false accusation. Why not just roll with that as proof that Patrick was there? Amanda herself said he did it! He was there! Remember, that alibi - that mysteriously disappeared. Patrick no longer has an alibi.

Throw in Rudy's DNA and palm print, etc., throw in allegations of Amanda and RS involvement, and according to the "evil prosecution" theory, why there you have a case on all 4!!

My point was, if prosecution supposedly invented all this stuff on Amanda and RS, surely they could have done the same for Patrick.

Ties, schmies.....so suddenly this evil and all-powerful prosecution and judges, they can't find a way around "neighborhood ties"?? Seems like they are at certain times all-powerful and STRONG, and at other times meek and weak.

 

[Monzoo]

I do note though, that Guede is not an Italian national, and is thus always referred to as "the Ivorian" or "from the Ivory Coast".

But he did have ties in Perugia. His drug habits made him have problems paying his rent, etc. - hence the break-and-entry problems. Yes, he and Sollecito lived on the same street, within walking distance.

Anyway from one of Amanda's inadmissable statements:

[I]I can’t remember if my friend Meredith was there or if she came later. We were all separate. Diya wanted Meredith.
Yes we were in the house. We were drunk. We asked her to join us.[/I]

After such a statement, how difficult is it to replace Lumumba's name with Guede's?

SMK, where did you get this translation of her statement? I have never seen that in her statements. It seems very different from every translation I have seen. Here is the link to the documents page on AK's website...

http://www.amandaknox.com/the-meredith-kercher-murder/

 

[SMK]

Yes, I believed I addressed these issues in my post.

My point being, that if this is all a supposed witch-hunt on Amanda and RS, then by necessity, all the evidence they have pointing towards their guilt must be "false," in that scenario.

So people say, well this evidence, you see, they have just made up this evidence or misinterpreted it. And they have done various things to make Amanda and RS appear more guilty, such as going "lighter" on Rudy in interrogations, so that he wouldn't tell the truth and wouldn't close the possiblity of Amanda and RS being involved.

My point was, if they went to such extreme lengths on Amanda and RS, they could certainly have done the same with Patrick.

Such as, hide away Swiss professor's alibi for Patrick - that was my exxageration of, throw his papers into the fire. Make them disappear. Patrick alibi, what alibi??

Second, invent evidence to make him look guilty like they supposedly did with Amanda and RS.

Plant some of his DNA in places such as the bra strap, like they suppoedly did with RS.

Attribute one or two of the footprints to him, to place him at the scene, like they supposedly did with RS.

Exxagerate the text and make it appear like he was going to meet Amanda, like it is suggested police did with Amanda which made her "come up" with the false accusation.

Oh, and let's not forget, BIG EVIDENCE - Amanda's false accusation. Why not just roll with that as proof that Patrick was there? Amanda herself said he did it! He was there! Remember, that alibi - that mysteriously disappeared. Patrick no longer has an alibi.

Throw in Rudy's DNA and palm print, etc., throw in allegations of Amanda and RS involvement, and according to the "evil prosecution" theory, why there you have a case on all 4!!

My point was, if prosecution supposedly invented all this stuff on Amanda and RS, surely they could have done the same for Patrick.

Ties, schmies.....so suddenly this evil and all-powerful prosecution and judges, they can't find a way around "neighborhood ties"?? Seems like they are at certain times all-powerful and STRONG, and at other times meek and weak.

Yes, I do see your point.

I think what the other side would say is, it was easier to frame Knox and Sollecito and to tie in Guede because this way truth and deception could be mixed .

But I see your point: They could have "made" Patrick fit. They might have even kept him as a fourth suspect, had they wanted to. In that, you are absolutely correct.