Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#10

[Katody]

No that's not what I'm saying at all. I did not say they cleaned the bidet, I only noted that it appeared clean minus the small amount of blood near the drain. My thoughts being RG(lone wolf) must've took care not to splash any bloody water outside the bidet or on the rim.

I see. But let's set aside the lone wolf for a moment. What about the clean up?

What else did they clean? What about the corridor, Meredith's room? Any clean up there?

 

[SMK]

I had always wondered why the bathmat print and sink smears would have been left after a clean up.

I know some have said these signs were left so there would be an excuse to alert others. But to my thinking, the broken window in Filomena's room ought to have been enough.

I think it's more likely, if one is working from a guilty perspective - an innocence perspective dismisses the clean up altogether - that the Postal Police may have moved things along more quickly. Although on second thought, Filomena was on her way, so that can't be in. Not sure what to say - open to any ideas.

 

[Amber29]

Actually what I have been looking for and not finding is any evidence of the towels, cloths, rags, paper etc. that would have been used in a clean-up. Where could it have gone? Perugia is not that big and neither is the window of time in which someone could have disposed of that sort of bloody evidence.

RS had a car, there's no telling where it could've gone. Perugia has a population of 163k that's alot of trash to look through I'd say. My city only has about 35k and I can't imagine trying to look through every dumpster.

Murderers are often able to dispose of things used in their crime, that goes on to never be found by police.

There lots of things RG as a lone wolf would've successfully disposed of.

 

[quesarita]

RS had a car, there's no telling where it could've gone. Perugia has a population of 163k that's alot of trash to look through I'd say. My city only has about 35k and I can't imagine trying to look through every dumpster.

Murderers are often able to dispose of things used in their crime, that goes on to never be found by police.

There lots of things RG as a lone wolf would've successfully disposed of.

Yes, and it's apparently evidence that he disposed of his shoes in Germany. I agree that is too far afield to search garbage.

After the Boston bombing, LE was able to quickly find a computer and other items belonging to the suspect inside a trash bag in a dumpster at a location not associated with the crime. Boston has a population of 636,000.

One of the theories of this crime is that Amanda and Raffaele were interrupted by the arrival of the Postal Police during their clean-up, so if they were cleaning up at the time, what were they using and where did it go?

 

[Amber29]

I had always wondered why the bathmat print and sink smears would have been left after a clean up.

I know some have said these signs were left so there would be an excuse to alert others. But to my thinking, the broken window in Filomena's room ought to have been enough.

I think it's more likely, if one is working from a guilty perspective - an innocence perspective dismissed the clean up altogether - that the Postal Police may have moved things along more quickly. Although on second thought, Filomena was on her way, so that can't be in. Not sure what to say - open to any ideas.

AK didn't know about the broken window in her shower story. Would you scape a blood spot on your sink with your fingernail finding it dried and leave it or wash it away?

AK never described the blood on the mat as a footprint, personally I don't think they thought it could be identified as a footprint and otherwise it went along with someone being in there.

If it were RG in the bathroom alone, what do you think he used the Qtips for?

 

[Amber29]

Yes, and it's apparently evidence that he disposed of his shoes in Germany. I agree that is too far afield to search garbage.

After the Boston bombing, LE was able to quickly find a computer and other items belonging to the suspect inside a trash bag in a dumpster at a location not associated with the crime. Boston has a population of 636,000.

One of the theories of this crime is that Amanda and Raffaele were interrupted by the arrival of the Postal Police during their clean-up, so if they were cleaning up at the time, what were they using and where did it go?

There were also many cameras going in Boston at the time of the bombing, no comparison.

How do you know he wore his shoes to Germany? That's speculation, he spent the the whole next day in Perugia and went clubbing in the nights following the murder. Do you also believe he kept the murder weapon until Germany?

That is not my theory. I think they were done and the alarm had been sounded.
Nothing was perfect including their stories.

 

[SMK]

AK didn't know about the broken window in her shower story. Would you scape a blood spot on your sink with your fingernail finding it dried and leave it or wash it away?

AK never described the blood on the mat as a footprint, personally I don't think they thought it could be identified as a footprint and otherwise it went along with someone being in there.

If it were RG in the bathroom alone, what do you think he used the Qtips for?

Right - what you're saying is the shower had to come first to explain the bathroom, before she could "know" about the window.
Was AK afraid Filomena would simply phone 112 if she began with the window story? (presupposing consciousness of guilt)

I didn't place RG alone in the bath. I just don't know why it wasn't all cleaned.

What is supposed to be the reason AK used the cotton buds?

The bathmat print is clearly a footprint to me, I don't know: Maybe they were seeing it from a different angle?

 

[Amber29]

I see. But let's set aside the lone wolf for a moment. What about the clean up?

What else did they clean? What about the corridor, Meredith's room? Any clean up there?

Setting aside the lone wolf is pointless. It's either AK and RS or the lone wolf.

I don't know about the corridor. I do not think it was full on mopped if that's what you mean.
I'd do not think Merediths floor was cleaned. I find it odd that something was moved from the floor near the wardrobe and wall, something large IMO and I don't think it was just the dictionary.

I also think there was a reason (unknown to me) Amandas lamp was on the floor behind the door and I don't think Meredith is the one that was using it.

 

[SMK]

Were Guede's bloody shoes and pants ever found?

 

[Katody]

AK didn't know about the broken window in her shower story.

You think they broke the window after alarming Filomena?

If it were RG in the bathroom alone, what do you think he used the Qtips for?

To me it looks like the blood on the box is just another diluted droplet, not a print. It doesn't imply anyone used it with bloody hands.

 

[quesarita]

AK didn't know about the broken window in her shower story. Would you scape a blood spot on your sink with your fingernail finding it dried and leave it or wash it away?

AK never described the blood on the mat as a footprint, personally I don't think they thought it could be identified as a footprint and otherwise it went along with someone being in there.

If it were RG in the bathroom alone, what do you think he used the Qtips for?

I think it's possible that a very small amount of dried blood on the qtip container could have been there from before the murder. Likewise a small amount of blood on the drain in the bidet (considering Meredith was menstruating at the time.)

 

[quesarita]

There were also many cameras going in Boston at the time of the bombing, no comparison.

How do you know he wore his shoes to Germany? That's speculation, he spent the the whole next day in Perugia and went clubbing in the nights following the murder. Do you also believe he kept the murder weapon until Germany?

That is not my theory. I think they were done and the alarm had been sounded.
Nothing was perfect including their stories.

I didn't speculate that he threw away the shoes in Germany, I read it. The empty shoe box for shoes matching the prints was found in his apt. in Perugia, but the shoes were disposed of in Germany.

The Boston bomber's effects were not found because of cameras, they were found by searching trash. They were thrown away by friends of his who were not suspects at the time.

 

[Amber29]

Right - what you're saying is the shower had to come first to explain the bathroom, before she could "know" about the window.
Was AK afraid Filomena would simply phone 112 if she began with the window story? (presupposing consciousness of guilt)

I didn't place RG alone in the bath. I just don't know why it wasn't all cleaned.

What is supposed to be the reason AK used the cotton buds?

The bathmat print is clearly a footprint to me, I don't know: Maybe they were seeing it from a different angle?

BBM
Why do you suppose AK never described it as a footprint? Just some blood on the mat IIRC

Yes the broken window would've been a call 112 now situation IMO.
There would be no reason behind seeing a broken window and waiting 2 hours to call the police.

I don't know why AK would've used the Qtips but in one of her emails/journal/statements about the night she goes into detail about RS cleaning her ears after their shower. It's more plausible to me that she used them than RG, I can't think of any reason for him to use them. If he did, he must've took the used ones with him.

 

[Amber29]

You think they broke the window after alarming Filomena?


To me it looks like the blood on the box is just another diluted droplet, not a print. It doesn't imply anyone used it with bloody hands.

You keep changing my words around and coming to your own conclusions.

No I did not say they broke the window after alerting Filomena. Don't know how that conclusion was drawn from my post.

So where are all these other diluted droplets near the sink or was there only this one?

 

[Katody]

I don't know about the corridor. I do not think it was full on mopped if that's what you mean.
I'd do not think Merediths floor was cleaned.

Thank you! If my understanding is correct, there was some (but not full on) clean up in the corridor and none in the murder room that we can add to the list.

That creates a bit of a problem, namely the origin of the bathmat footprint. Raffaele stepped somewhere in blood to make it, right?

 

[SMK]

I think it's possible that a very small amount of dried blood on the qtip container could have been there from before the murder. Likewise a small amount of blood on the drain in the bidet (considering Meredith was menstruating at the time.)

It is true that Meredith was menstruating and AK had ear piercing issues in the days running up to Nov 1-2.

 

[SMK]

BBM
Why do you suppose AK never described it as a footprint? Just some blood on the mat IIRC

I know, she didn't. It's baffling that it didn't appear as one to her.

 

[aa9511]

Again, I feel that I have a higher opinion of Perugian LE than you do. If he asked about bleach in the first few days after the murder, he was not asking about random purchasers because bleach was not used on Meredith's body. Bleach would only have been used to clean up the cottage, if used. So the purchase of bleach would only have been important if it was done by Amanda or Raffaele (or another resident of the cottage, but that has never been an issue). So if a police officer received an answer of "No" to the question about bleach purchases, his next question should have been, have you seen any of these people recently?

If the police walked away from the shop after only asking that one question, then the investigation was indeed badly done and flawed from the start.

Yes, that makes a lot of sense.

 

[Amber29]

Thank you! If my understanding is correct, there was some (but not full on) clean up in the corridor and none in the murder room that we can add to the list.

That creates a bit of a problem, namely the origin of the bathmat footprint. Raffaele stepped somewhere in blood to make it, right?

Well I don't think her floor was mopped, I do think theres a source behind the bathmat print and prints missing leading to it that are missing.

 

[Katody]

You keep changing my words around and coming to your own conclusions.

No I did not say they broke the window after alerting Filomena. Don't know how that conclusion was drawn from my post.

Apparently I misunderstood. I'm sorry. So you do agree the window was broken already when they alerted Filomena.

I understand for some reason it was insufficient to tell about the window? For example: "there is a window broken, I'm going now to fetch Raffaele". But didn't the information about the window prompt Filomena to come to the villa immediately?