Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#3

[Amber29]

To me, this is proof of the shoddy investigation done by police. We are talking about a crime scene. They have photographers capturing everything. Yet they miss the crucial evidence of glass on top of ransacked items?

Witnesses can misremember, be mistaken, lie, exaggerate, etc. Why would you rely on witnesses when you have the means and opportunity to document everything photographically?

Besides the glass on top of clothes, we have Filomena herself that testified she had pulled her outside shutters on her window closed that night as best they would close
We also know that investigators noted the ground below the window did not look to have been walked on.
They also noted it rained and the ground was slightly wet
They also noted no glass being outside the window
The window sill had glass laying all over it, one would assume a burglar would push it off when climbing through.
So the glass on top of the mess in the room isn't the only evidence of a staging.

 

[Amber29]

I guess the glass on top of clothing that Filomena and the officer testified to is just more witnesses who lied.
Gosh did any of the prosecution witnesses tell the truth or remember correctly? Or did only Amanda and Raffele tell the truth of how things were?

 

[otto]

I guess the glass on top of clothing that Filomena and the officer testified to is just more witnesses who lied.
Gosh did any of the prosecution witnesses tell the truth or remember correctly? Or did only Amanda and Raffele tell the truth of how things were?

Hard to say. Knox and Sollecito are proven liars based on the false accusations of murder against Patrick, and the false claims that Meredith had supper at Sollecito's apartment. No one else has been proven to be a liar.

 

[jgsmith]

There's no copyright violation to take a picture of the page and post it here. We're all curious. Perhaps someone that read Knox's story would like to post a photo of the page that contains the letter so we can all see for ourselves that Knox lied about the contents of the letter during the trial.

All we have at this point is her admission that she confirmed her accusations against Patrick in the letter of November 7.

I have the eBook, and could post the text of the letter, but I'm assuming that's a no-no unless someone tells me differently. In any event, when you say "Perhaps someone that read Knox's story would like to post a photo of the page that contains the letter so we can all see for ourselves that Knox lied" it's pretty clear your mind is already made up.


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[jgsmith]

The Massei Report addressed every aspect of the broken window and concludes, at the end of listening to all legal arguments, that the window was broken from inside the room.

http://www.westseattleherald.com/si...ttachments/MasseiReportEnglishTranslation.pdf pp 38-73

Wait. If the window was broken from inside the room, how is there ANY glass in the room. I thought you were arguing the window was broken from the outside, but after the room had been ransacked?


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[Cappuccino]

I think that it is important to point out that when Knox lied to police about Patrick, she was not under any duress. In fact, she voluntarily went to the police station, even though she was not asked to be there. While she was there, she chose to speak with police. During that conversation, she introduced Patrick's name to police and proceeded to tell an elaborate lie about his involvement in the murder of Meredith.

She voluntarily wrote a letter on November 6 where she stated that she stood behind her statements about Patrick. On November 7, she again confirmed her statements about Patrick.

Virtually every false confession I can think of was made by someone who voluntarily went into the police station to speak to the police, so that's a bit of a non sequitur. Just because someone wasn't brought into the police station under duress it doesn't mean psychologically coercive tactics weren't used in the interrogation room.

But of course we have no tape of this interrogation, so we have no way to know.

 

[jgsmith]

Knox didn't make a false confession, so all related materials do not apply. Knox lied to police and told an elaborate, detailed story about Patrick murdering Meredith.

Witness statements are not normally video taped, and Knox was a witness when she told police that Patrick was a murderer.

An elaborate, detailed story about Patrick murdering Meredith? Ummm, can you point to this?


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[Amber29]

Wait. If the window was broken from inside the room, how is there ANY glass in the room. I thought you were arguing the window was broken from the outside, but after the room had been ransacked?


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They concluded the window had been broken from inside with the outside shutters closed, hence the glass not being past the shutter line on the window sill.

 

[jgsmith]

I think that it is important to point out that when Knox lied to police about Patrick, she was not under any duress. In fact, she voluntarily went to the police station, even though she was not asked to be there. While she was there, she chose to speak with police. During that conversation, she introduced Patrick's name to police and proceeded to tell an elaborate lie about his involvement in the murder of Meredith.

She voluntarily wrote a letter on November 6 where she stated that she stood behind her statements about Patrick. On November 7, she again confirmed her statements about Patrick.

I think you stated earlier that AK was whacked out on drugs, which, in part, led to her killing MK. Why then, do you find it hard to believe that her memory of that night might be fuzzy and she recalled it to the best of her ability?


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[whiterum]

It would be dumber to carry a bloody knife across town, clean it an stuff it back in the drawer than just dispose of it and buy another? I can't imagine the person cleaning his apartment remembering the number and condition of the knives. My cleaner can't even remember to take the recycling out.

Jim


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Killers have carried worse across town and got away with it. Easy, an old rag and a plastic bag. IMO it would be dumber than dumb for a knife killer to go out and buy a large knife then stick this spanking new knife in the landlord's drawer thinking no-one is going to notice that the old black handled knife has suddenly disappeared after a knife murder. In any case AK couldn't even buy a pair of knickers without the dogs in the street knowing about it.

 

[jgsmith]

Besides the glass on top of clothes, we have Filomena herself that testified she had pulled her outside shutters on her window closed that night as best they would close
We also know that investigators noted the ground below the window did not look to have been walked on.
They also noted it rained and the ground was slightly wet
They also noted no glass being outside the window
The window sill had glass laying all over it, one would assume a burglar would push it off when climbing through.
So the glass on top of the mess in the room isn't the only evidence of a staging.

So was the window broken from the inside or the outside?


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[Amber29]

So was the window broken from the inside or the outside?


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The window was broken from the inside with the outside shutters pulled in just as Filomena testified they were when she left.

 

[jgsmith]

They concluded the window had been broken from inside with the outside shutters closed, hence the glass not being past the shutter line on the window sill.

Thanks. Did not know that.


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[SMK]

Thanks. Did not know that.


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Of course the other court as well as other camp has ruled that there was no simulation (and thus no staging of a robbery or crime scene; hence, the window in question was likely broken from outside during a robbery). The Hellmann court ruling has been overturned.

 

[jgsmith]

Killers have carried worse across town and got away with it. Easy, an old rag and a plastic bag. IMO it would be dumber than dumb for a knife killer to go out and buy a large knife then stick this spanking new knife in the landlord's drawer thinking no-one is going to notice that the old black handled knife has suddenly disappeared after a knife murder. In any case AK couldn't even buy a pair of knickers without the dogs in the street knowing about it.

At the time of the murder, there was no way AK or RS could have imagined the attention that would be put on them. Having just killed someone, I still find it hard to believe they would not have disposed of the murder weapon, particularly since the phones were disposed of. Fair point about buying a knife to replace it. Guess I wouldn't make a very good murderer.


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[otto]

I have the eBook, and could post the text of the letter, but I'm assuming that's a no-no unless someone tells me differently. In any event, when you say "Perhaps someone that read Knox's story would like to post a photo of the page that contains the letter so we can all see for ourselves that Knox lied" it's pretty clear your mind is already made up.


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Based on the trial transcript, I am inclined to believe what was said in court. However, I am open minded. If in fact, Knox did not say: "I didn't lie when I said the murderer might be Patrick", I would like to know that.

 

[Footwarrior]

The window was broken from the inside with the outside shutters pulled in just as Filomena testified they were when she left.

Throw a rock through the window from the outside with the inner shutter closed and the outer shutter open and you get glass fragments imbedded in the inner shutter exactly as was found. And glass fragments scattered across the room just as they were found.

Break the window from the inside with the outer shutter closed and the glass fragments will end up embedded in the outer shutter and in the louvers. The crime scene photos show no such thing.

Basic physics tells us how the window was broken.

 

[otto]

Wait. If the window was broken from inside the room, how is there ANY glass in the room. I thought you were arguing the window was broken from the outside, but after the room had been ransacked?

I think the theory is that the window was broken from inside the room - but don't quote me on that (see Massei Report for reasoning). The shutters were closed, so when the window was broken, the glass hit the shutters and fell on the ledge. I really don't care about the window, so I haven't bothered understanding the reasoning. What concerns me is the conclusion of the court after hearing all possible interpretations of the evidence. I trust the court, and the conclusion was that the break-in was staged.

 

[otto]

Virtually every false confession I can think of was made by someone who voluntarily went into the police station to speak to the police, so that's a bit of a non sequitur. Just because someone wasn't brought into the police station under duress it doesn't mean psychologically coercive tactics weren't used in the interrogation room.

But of course we have no tape of this interrogation, so we have no way to know.

It doesn't matter how false confessions work, because no one in this case made a false confession.

Knox went to the police station and lied to police. She introduced Patrick's name to the discussion and accused him of murdering Meredith. That is very different from a false confession.

 

[otto]

An elaborate, detailed story about Patrick murdering Meredith? Ummm, can you point to this?


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Knox's lie to police started with describing Patrick at the basketball court and ends with her standing in the kitchen with her fingers sticking in her ears to block Meredith's loud scream.

You will find all the information in the trial transcript: http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=17370