Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#5

[otto]

But even if blood, it was DNA tested and it is not MK, so where would it have come from. You would only be leaving bloody footprints in the victims blood bc no one else would generate so much blood.

Luminol also reacts w rusts from tap water, cleaning products, etc. if AK was running from the shower she could have tracked the luminol reacting stuff from cleaning products in the shower.

You have to apply force to stab someone. It would be hard to restrain someone without shoes.

Pics on that pro innocence website cited above show visible signs of the RG bloody prints. It is faint so I could see why it would not be totally obvious, especially given the commotion that morning but you definitely can see blood. But why wouldn't AK have scrubbed them all away? She may not have known they were not RS. Besides,why would she want RG be caught at all? He could have turned on her (as he did). Better to leave the crime unsolved I think in her mind.

Was the water in the cottage reported as being high in iron, turning clothing yellow? If not, then I don't think that "rust products" in the water is the cause. We know that Knox didn't clean - that was a point of contention between Knox and her housemates. I doubt that she tracked iron rich water or cleaning products that she didn't use down the hallway, so it must have been something else.

Why wouldn't Knox have stopped dead in her tracks when she found the front door wide open, bloody footprints leading down the hall, a broken window in her roommates bedroom, blood on the bathmat, blood on the sink, feces in the toilet ... why would she leave the door unlocked, have a shower, boogie down the hall on a bathmat to get a towel, leave the toilet unflushed, take a mop and walk to Sollecito's apartment for a nice lunch, phone Meredith's phone to see if the phones had been found, phone Filomina, neglect to mention the call to Meredith's phones even though Filomina immediately asked her to make that call, went to the cottage, phoned mom, delayed phoning the Carabinieri until after the Postal Police arrived ... it's just plain bizarre.

 

[aa9511]

But even if blood, it was DNA tested and it is not MK, so where would it have come from. You would only be leaving bloody footprints in the victims blood bc no one else would generate so much blood.

Luminol also reacts w rusts from tap water, cleaning products, etc. if AK was running from the shower she could have tracked the luminol reacting stuff from cleaning products in the shower.

You have to apply force to stab someone. It would be hard to restrain someone without shoes.

Pics on that pro innocence website cited above show visible signs of the RG bloody prints. It is faint so I could see why it would not be totally obvious, especially given the commotion that morning but you definitely can see blood. But why wouldn't AK have scrubbed them all away? She may not have known they were not RS. Besides,why would she want RG be caught at all? He could have turned on her (as he did). Better to leave the crime unsolved I think in her mind.

If one could "definately" see the blood, why didn't Amanda see them when she went back to the cottage in the morning? She didn't mention seeing any bloody footprints. Don't you think that would have been a CLEAR warning something was wrong, perhaps clearer then the open front door, the broken window, the blood in the bathroom which seem to be a little fuzzy for her to grasp? Especially leading right from Meredith's door, a door which was locked. Which Amanda would have clearly seen on her way to the bathroom?

She apparently was worried about the other things in a "kinda, sorta" way to tell Raffaelo about them LATER....so were the bloody footprints a "kinda, sorta" thing in her mind, too?

 

[otto]

Hmmm.....ok so did they find any of Laura or the other roomate's footprints under Luminol, or for that matter, Meredith's footprints? Because going by those reports, since there was no blood supposedly, they were just regular ol' footprints. Why, then, are there no footprints showing for Meredith, who would have been walking around in the house on the day of, and in the days prior to, the murder.

It doesn't make sense. Those were footprints in blood, as shown by the Luminol. That is why both Rudy and Amanda's footprints showed under the Luminol.

I think the prosecutor said that there had been no logical argument against the luminol evidence being blood.

 

[aa9511]

Another thing is, maybe she knew they were definately RG's, because maybe they took their shoes off immediately after seeing what they did and the "oh, sh**" realization came to them. Rudy had already run off by then. They took their shoes off knowing what they did and they didn't want to track their shoeprints all over the house at that point.

 

[Yellow]

Hmmm.....ok so did they find any of Laura or the other roomate's footprints under Luminol, or for that matter, Meredith's footprints? Because going by those reports, since there was no blood supposedly, they were just regular ol' footprints. Why, then, are there no footprints showing for Meredith, who would have been walking around in the house on the day of, and in the days prior to, the murder.

It doesn't make sense. Those were footprints in blood, as shown by the Luminol. That is why both Rudy and Amanda's footprints showed under the Luminol.

MK and the roommates strike me as more "proper" and cleanly. They Probabky wore flip flops to the shower. AK was more untidy, she probably walked around barefoot alot. She could have taken a shower and the cleaning products is what reacted w luminol. The prosecutor did a special test for blood and it turned up negative.

More telling is that one can debate all day whether or not it was blood, but it was not MK DNA. Even if blood, if it was not MK DNA then it does not make sense because no one else would bleed so much so as to leave bloody footprints. Why isn't the footprints in MK's DNA?

 

[otto]

Yeah, that could happen too. I think though that is more likely to happen if the victim is wiggling. It may be MK was knocked out pretty quick but if she had the capacity to I am sure she was doing something

I think she was knocked out pretty quick bc why wasn't there more screaming? I am not sure how far away other houses are but if the attack was other than say under a minute I would think she would be screaming like anything, surely neighbors would have heard continual screaming ( provided that is possible, I am not sure how soundproof the house was.) but the window in the next door would have been open, sound could have got out. maybe there was no one to hear though.

Perpetrators of a knife attack do not cut themselves because the victim is "wiggly", it is because they miscalculate how tightly to grasp the knife when stabbing, and their hand slips because they are not grasping hard enough. They run their own hand down the blade. That is also the question related to Knox's DNA on the alleged murder weapon - was that a hand slipping down the knife?

Meredith was not knocked out. She did not have "knock out" injuries. Knox got it right when she said that Meredith slowly bled to death - slowly losing consciousness from blood loss.

The prosecutor mentioned bruising on Meredith's face from being muffled and prevented from screaming. Neighbors her a scream. Knox reported hearing a scream. Didn't Guede also mention a scream?

 

[aa9511]

RG also had a visible cut to his right hand. MK probably tried to deflect the knife away from her and that is how he got that

Ok, if that is true, visible cut to his hand. That would have meant RG's cut would have bled. Whether it was from his hand slipping on the knife, or Meredith knocking the knife into his hand somehow.

So why wasn't there MORE of Rudy's DNA "everywhere" in the murder room? Since he had a cut that was bleeding? There should have been many more samples with Rudy DNA in it.

But there aren't.

So either these samples were not collected, and thus not tested. Or his hand didn't get cut. If his hand got cut for sure, that means the prior is true, none of the samples containing his DNA from his own blood were collected, and thus not tested.

So could we not reason that the same happened with RS and Amanda? That the samples containing their DNA were not collected, and thus not tested?

 

[sherlockh]

RG also had a visible cut to his right hand. MK probably tried to deflect the knife away from her and that is how he got that

This is part of the SC report. Several witnesses who saw Guede the day after the murder stated that he had no wounds on his hands.

 

[otto]

Another thing is, maybe she knew they were definately RG's, because maybe they took their shoes off immediately after seeing what they did and the "oh, sh**" realization came to them. Rudy had already run off by then. They took their shoes off knowing what they did and they didn't want to track their shoeprints all over the house at that point.

I think that's theory. After the scream and the murder, they fled the scene. A witness reports hearing them clanging up the nearby metal stairs shortly after the murder. Guede went home, cleaned up, changed and went dancing. Knox and Sollecito circle back after making sure that no one called the police after the scream.

Computer activity started at Sollecito's apartment at 5:32 am, for 30 minutes, then silence, presumably sleep, until 10, when Knox went to the cottage to get a mop and a shower.

 

[aa9511]

RG also had a visible cut to his right hand. MK probably tried to deflect the knife away from her and that is how he got that

I keep hearing about 6 ft. strong guy. So I find it hard to believe that Meredith could have somehow arm-wrestled him and won, veering his arm into the other direction, and somehow cutting him on his other hand.

If the cut is true, it probably happened from his hand slipping because the knife was slippery from the blood.

 

[Yellow]

If one could "definately" see the blood, why didn't Amanda see them when she went back to the cottage in the morning? She didn't mention seeing any bloody footprints. Don't you think that would have been a CLEAR warning something was wrong, perhaps clearer then the open front door, the broken window, the blood in the bathroom which seem to be a little fuzzy for her to grasp? Especially leading right from Meredith's door, a door which was locked. Which Amanda would have clearly seen on her way to the bathroom?

She apparently was worried about the other things in a "kinda, sorta" way to tell Raffaelo about them LATER....so were the bloody footprints a "kinda, sorta" thing in her mind, too?

If you look at the pics on the pro innocence website you can see they are faint, I don't think you necessarily would notice them, they were not dripping in blood. She also appeared to be rushing that morning and she appears like she is a bit weird.

Why would AK want to frame RG? If she saw the prints and was involved in the murder why not clean them? She had no way of knowing RG DNA was in the system. Why risk leading the police to RG who could blow her story and turn on her instead of wiping away ALL the evidence and leaving the murder unsolved?

I think it is attributing a little too much to AK to think she had the wherewithal to spontaneously kill someone, and then frame someone else for the murder, wiping away some evidence but not others. I guess she was not framing him, but she would be having RG take the fall. I would think she would rather it remain unsolved than risk RG being singled out at all.

And if she wanted to frame him, why would not she have mentioned RG instead of PL?

 

[otto]

This is part of the SC report. Several witnesses who saw Guede the day after the murder stated that he had no wounds on his hands.

Do you remember how he explained the cut on his fingers?

 

[Yellow]

I keep hearing about 6 ft. strong guy. So I find it hard to believe that Meredith could have somehow arm-wrestled him and won, veering his arm into the other direction, and somehow cutting him on his other hand.

If the cut is true, it probably happened from his hand slipping because the knife was slippery from the blood.

I think so too, I am just saying that if she was conscious she could have been wiggling too.

 

[aa9511]

Yeah, that could happen too. I think though that is more likely to happen if the victim is wiggling. It may be MK was knocked out pretty quick but if she had the capacity to I am sure she was doing something

I think she was knocked out pretty quick bc why wasn't there more screaming? I am not sure how far away other houses are but if the attack was other than say under a minute I would think she would be screaming like anything, surely neighbors would have heard continual screaming ( provided that is possible, I am not sure how soundproof the house was.) but the window in the next door would have been open, sound could have got out. maybe there was no one to hear though.

Hmmm....I believe the scenario that fits that would be more than one assailant....one covering her mouth to keep her from screaming.

 

[MichaelSmith]

Amanda Knox - Bathroom Fallacy - What Amanda Really Saw - YouTube

 

[otto]

If you look at the pics on the pro innocence website you can see they are faint, I don't think you necessarily would notice them, they were not dripping in blood. She also appeared to be rushing that morning and she appears like she is a bit weird.

Why would AK want to frame RG? If she saw the prints and was involved in the murder why not clean them? She had no way of knowing RG DNA was in the system. Why risk leading the police to RG who could blow her story and turn on her instead of wiping away ALL the evidence and leaving the murder unsolved?

I think it is attributing a little too much to AK to think she had the wherewithal to spontaneously kill someone, and then frame someone else for the murder, wiping away some evidence but not others. I guess she was not framing him, but she would be having RG take the fall. I would think she would rather it remain unsolved than risk RG being singled out at all.

And if she wanted to frame him, why would not she have mentioned RG instead of PL?

Knox was rushing that morning? She arrived at the cottage around 10:30 and it was two hours later that she was concerned. In the meantime she had a shower and brunch. What was rushed?

Guede's DNA was not in the system. His fingerprints were taken when he was found at the daycare. Knox most likely had no way of knowing that his fingerprints had been taken. I doubt that Guede mentioned the daycare incident. Knox identified a black man in the murder. If anyone saw a black man running down the street after the murder, by not mentioning Guede, at least it didn't come back to her.

 

[Yellow]

Ok, if that is true, visible cut to his hand. That would have meant RG's cut would have bled. Whether it was from his hand slipping on the knife, or Meredith knocking the knife into his hand somehow.

So why wasn't there MORE of Rudy's DNA "everywhere" in the murder room? Since he had a cut that was bleeding? There should have been many more samples with Rudy DNA in it.

But there aren't.

So either these samples were not collected, and thus not tested. Or his hand didn't get cut. If his hand got cut for sure, that means the prior is true, none of the samples containing his DNA from his own blood were collected, and thus not tested.

So could we not reason that the same happened with RS and Amanda? That the samples containing their DNA were not collected, and thus not tested?

If he got cut at the scene, perhaps it dropped on her bag or perhaps he wiped it and that explains the bloody palm print

Given the incompetence of the prosecutor, there could very well have been other DNA in that room that was not analyzed. That DNA could have included AK or RS. AK could have left fingerprints during a murder or from bring in MK room on prior occasions. AK Blood would be hard to explain other than her being involved in a murder.

But thing is, it is up to the prosecutor to PROVE their case. No prosecutor would ever be allowed to show as proof," well, their DNA could have been there but we never bothered to DNA test everything we could have." They have to prove that both were involved in the murder and they have no physical evidence to support this, all they have is AK walking around barefoot in her apartment, some apparent lies or inconsistencies, and discredited DNA.

 

[aa9511]

This is part of the SC report. Several witnesses who saw Guede the day after the murder stated that he had no wounds on his hands.

Okay, so he didn't have cuts on his hand? I'm confused now. Was there a cut on his hand or not, or do we know?

 

[otto]

If he got cut at the scene, perhaps it dropped on her bag or perhaps he wiped it and that explains the bloody palm print

Given the incompetence of the prosecutor, there could very well have been other DNA in that room that was not analyzed. That DNA could have included AK or RS. AK could have left fingerprints during a murder or from bring in MK room on prior occasions. AK Blood would be hard to explain other than her being involved in a murder.

But thing is, it is up to the prosecutor to PROVE their case. No prosecutor would ever be allowed to show as proof," well, their DNA could have been there but we never bothered to DNA test everything we could have." They have to prove that both were involved in the murder and they have no physical evidence to support this, all they have is AK walking around barefoot in her apartment, some apparent lies or inconsistencies, and discredited DNA.

Is the bloody palm print Guede's DNA? I thought that the palm print was on the pillow case and his DNA was on the shirt. Is Guede's DNA also on the pillow case?

Perhaps not enough effort was done during the autopsy to identify DNA?

 

[Yellow]

Hmmm....I believe the scenario that fits that would be more than one assailant....one covering her mouth to keep her from screaming.

And if that was true, MK would not have tried to bite that person, leaving that person's DNA in her mouth? Indeed, I don't think it would have even required biting. If someone's hand covered her mouth, DNA probably would have turned up on MK body.