Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#7

[Sigh Sister]

Moving something over the print shouldn't alter the print.

I was thinking that dragging items from her bedroom that may have blood on them and then putting in them in the hallway could alter the scene. Luminol could have detected blood that would not have been there if not for items moved. It just seems to me that it would alter potential blood evidence. Maybe I'm over thinking it.

 

[Katody]

I've never heard that before! Where did you read this?

It's evident in the photo and video documentation of the December inspection.
They are looking for the bloody tracks with pictures in hands and can't find them on the floor anymore.

I believe it was also discussed in the courtroom but I would have to look it up in the transcripts.

 

[otto]

Here is a list of all the things (which after Hellmann was overturned, I read on the Murder Wiki) which convinced me that Knox and Sollecito had some culpability and foreknowledge:

( I leave out Knox's statement and calumnia of PL as those were too familiar to me in conjunction with false confession syndrome. I also leave out kisses, cartwheels, weird talk, buying lingerie, not knowing open door and blood drops meant serious crime was committed---to me all these things are normal and not suspect)

• Bathmat print
• luminol prints
• sink blood droplets and smears
• not calling 112 until after PP arrived
• AK saying MK always locked her door
• AK first call to Mom
• MK moved and bra removed after death
• simulation of robbery
• AK having knowledge of crime she could only know if present
• Quintavalle
• email home

Here is the list of what is left now (after errors, mistranslations, fabrication has been ruled out) and all of these are now questionable:

• sink droplets?
• 112 calls?
• AK on locked door?
• simulation of robbery?
• AK first call to Mom?
• Quintavalle?
• email home

Does anyone feel they are sure of more things, or are left with more of a list? And why?

There is a mixed blood/DNA sample in Filomina's bedroom that was mentioned by Crini last week.

 

[otto]

It's evident in the photo and video documentation of the December inspection.
They are looking for the bloody tracks with pictures in hands and can't find them on the floor anymore.

I believe it was also discussed in the courtroom but I would have to look it up in the transcripts.

Those prints should have been visible again after using luminol.

 

[Sigh Sister]

Dr Stefanoni followed all protocols and she went beyond what was expected by further refining the sample. I don't know how that can be perceived as a problem.

If we are to look at international scores in terms of which countries score better in terms of education, the US is way down there. From the Balding interview that I linked a couple of days ago: Sollecito is fully represented in the stain at 15 loci (we still only use 10 in the UK, so 15 is a lot). Italy still has higher standards than in the UK, where there is no criticism over DNA analysis.

I take it you totally discount the report by C & V? I read almost all of it today, and it was pretty damning. This was a report by Italian scientists.

 

[Sigh Sister]

Those prints should have been visible again after using luminol.

But where did they go? If true, that's evidence of crime scene tampering.

 

[SMK]

There is a mixed blood/DNA sample in Filomina's bedroom that was mentioned by Crini last week.

Thanks! Forgot about that one ETA: Forgot Amanda's lamp on MK floor too.

 

[SMK]

According to the documents it was not a print.
There is no proof it was blood either but it wouldn't surprise me if some blood and DNA was tracked all over the place during the initial inspections or the undocumented trashing that happened between the visits of Scientifica.

Does this sort of thing occur with a lot of crime scenes and investigations of them? What is the protocol, which might have prevented this?

 

[Katody]

Those prints should have been visible again after using luminol.

Possibly but not necessarily. I suppose they were removed by the local Perugian police. I recall Stefanoni expressing surprise about the state of the crime scene she visited again in December. I don't know what method they used and what was the reason for removing the blood.

There is no documentation that luminol revealed anything apart from the few traces that we know of that are listed in Stefanoni's presentation and Rinaldi's report.

 

[Katody]

Does this sort of thing occur with a lot of crime scenes and investigations of them? What is the protocol, which might have prevented this?

For the discussion of relevant protocols refer to this part of Conti-Vecchiotti Report:

http://knoxdnareport.wordpress.com/contents/conclusions-1/notes-on-inspection-and-collection-techniques/

They list the guidelines that were evidently broken by the police at the scene.

 

[SMK]

For the discussion of relevant protocols refer to this part of Conti-Vecchiotti Report:

http://knoxdnareport.wordpress.com/contents/conclusions-1/notes-on-inspection-and-collection-techniques/

They list the guidelines that were evidently broken by the police at the scene.

Thanks so much. smk

 

[TorisMom003]

Filomina talked about the clothes drying rack in her testimony. It blocks the French doors to the patio, and would have made it very difficult for anyone to be in the hallway looking into the bedroom when the door was broken.

I believe that this is incorrect. The drying rack does not block the French doors leading to the patio that was directly across from Meredith's room. The pic that follows shows the view from Meredith's room directly across to the French doors. There is no drying rack to be seen. The drying rack appears to be closer to Amanda and Filomina's room (in between the two) instead.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/meredithroom__23_.jpg
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery4.html

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/dsc_0094.jpg
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery3.html

 

[Amber29]

It's evident in the photo and video documentation of the December inspection.
They are looking for the bloody tracks with pictures in hands and can't find them on the floor anymore.

I believe it was also discussed in the courtroom but I would have to look it up in the transcripts.

And PS said in her testimony that those shoe prints were the first evidence they delt with, even before Meredith's body. She knew and said so in testimony that they were fragile as they were barely visible to the naked eye. So yes walking around in booties may have disturbed them.

Please do link a transcript were they say someone cleaned the cottage floor in that time period.

 

[Amber29]

<modsnip>

Yes this is true according to Massei I believe. IIRC he attributed the footprints to part of the clean up. Do you have the Massei report downloaded or should I find the passage about it?

Yes the blood on the faucet is Amandas.

 

[Katody]

<modsnip>

The only diluted traces I can think of are in the bathroom. The sink, the bidet, the light switch, the bathmat, the q-tip box.
The smear on the edge of the bathroom door doesn't look diluted.

The trace of Amanda's blood is on the faucet. It's not diluted, it looks like someone scratched it a bit.

 

[SMK]

Yes this is true according to Massei I believe. IIRC he attributed the footprints to part of the clean up. Do you have the Massei report downloaded or should I find the passage about it?

Yes the blood on the faucet is Amandas.

Thanks, Amber. yes, I have Massei downloaded. thnx

 

[MichaelSmith]

Well she has been found guilty twice now how many times does it take?
I think she was involved and always have. I'd like or rather I would challenge any one to persuade me. Has RG ever implicated either her or Rafael? Has he ever; said one thing that they helped in some way? That's what I'd like to know. Maybe Knox just has a personality disorder of some kind and that is why we saw all the bizarre behavior from her immediately following this crime. That and her drug use; what was her toxicology after the crime any way? I think it's really important to know. Was she trippin on something?

Guilty the first time, declared innocent the second time.

These are some of Guede's stories about what happened -

1. In a secretly recorded call with his best friend before he was arrested he admitted being at the cottage and in the murder room and said quite clearly Amanda wasn't involved. When asked if the killer was Raffaele, he says "umm, maybe, I dunno"

2. When he was caught and still in Germany he wrote a prison diary where he said he there on a date with Meredith and some mystery Italian dude was the killer. The guy entered the cottage and killed Meredith while he sat on the toilet listening to an Ipod that doesn't exist. He said Amanda had stolen Meredith's money and she was upset. He asks in the diary "who is Raffaele" and wonders if all the guys downstairs might have killed Meredith.

3. In another statement he says he saw Amanda in the cottage drive way while he "leaned out the window" that happened to be the one that was broken with the rock.

4. At one point his lawyers were hinting the killer might have been the man seen at the fountain on Nov 2 wearing a jacket and white cap.

5. He did outright accuse Amanda & Raffaele at one point during his trial or appeal. I can't remember exactly.

6. A prison snitch came forward saying Guede confessed to him saying he did it with another guy and called Meredith a ***** and prostitute who they raped and had to finish off. The snitch was a child killer but his story was corroborated by his lawyer and 3(?) other snitches who say they heard Guede telling him this.

7. At the Hellmann trial he wasn't allowed to answer questions about the actual murder but brought to court a letter he couldn't read so Mignini read it for him accusing Amanda & Raffaele. When questioned he said it was all just a "thought in his head"

8. He recently released a letter to an Italian tv station saying the killer or killers are still out there.

He was originally sentenced to 30 years but will go free next May after only 7 years for rape and murder. The prosecution never appealed his massive sentence reduction.

 

[sherlockh]

If it is then what's the problem posting the source? It's your claim.

Otto posted recently a falsehood about washing machine. It was supposedly sourced, too but somehow there's nothing about it in courtroom transcripts.

There is a lot of false information circulated by some websites. I see it as a problem as it hinders constructive discussion and obscures the truth.

It is not my claim that this a falsified transcript. The source is right under the article. I am not allowed to copy/paste from pro-guilt websites so instead of falsely accusing everybody of lying and attacking the website you could have just looked up the source. I already posted that this literally came from the trial. It was Francesco Maresca who said it on June 13, 2009.
<modsnip>

 

[SMK]

The only diluted traces I can think of are in the bathroom. The sink, the bidet, the light switch, the bathmat, the q-tip box.
The smear on the edge of the bathroom door doesn't look diluted.

The trace of Amanda's blood is on the faucet. It's not diluted, it looks like someone scratched it a bit.

Thank you. I was just reading Hellmann about Knox's blood on faucet: He is unimpressed due to bad collection methods, and no dna of Sollecito at all in bath. I can see his reasoning.

 

[otto]

I take it you totally discount the report by C & V? I read almost all of it today, and it was pretty damning. This was a report by Italian scientists.

I'm relying on the the fact that the Supreme Court completely overruled Hellman's decision, labeling the C&V report as incomplete and illogical. That is pretty damning in terms of C&V. Balding reviews the C&V report and doesn't entirely agree with their results.