Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#7

[Myvice]

Thanks otto. The whole footprint thing just doesn't gel for me on the lone wolf theory. And in the last thread when discussing the bath mat print to me there were clearly marks on the mat where the measurements began, they were just faint because they weren't on the pile part of the mat.

Sorry to bring up a different issue in the midst of the present conversation. Thanks for your answer!

 

[Katody]

So, why would Guede remove his shoes to get towels from the small bathroom?

Exactly. Why?
It's entirely possible he went to the bathroom in his shoes.
He removed them to wash his pants, leaving the bare footprint in the process.
He returned to his victim, went through her belongings, stepped on the bloody towel and left some bloody shoeprints.

 

[Myvice]

It's definitely a matter of imagination filling out the blanks when we don't have the recording to hear. Maybe there was cutting off, maybe long pauses.

More interesting: what were the beans to spill?

It is MOO that she admitted to more evidence than she should have been aware of at the time.

You mean this part:

A): Honestly, maybe I was shocked.
M): Yes, but this happened before anything had really happened, besides the house...



To be accurate they're talking about the cause of not remembering, not the reason for calling.

That is your interpretation but IMO Edda is saying how could you have told me these things before you were supposed to know Merideth was dead. To me it isn't accurate that Edda was asking why she couldn't remember. JMO



My answers bolded

 

[Katody]

That is your interpretation but IMO Edda is saying how could you have told me these things before you were supposed to know Merideth was dead. To me it isn't accurate that Edda was asking why she couldn't remember. JMO



My answers bolded

Could you quote the relevant part?

 

[SMK]

I apologize for jumping in on a different topic but I've been away and wanted some clarification or help if any one can help me out. (TIA).

Harmony posted a picture of a footprint by the bed and to me it looks like it is walking beside the bed as opposed to someone turned as in sitting on the bed. Hope that makes sense.

I would think that if Guede sat on the bed to remove his shoes the prints would be pointing away from the bed and somewhat blurred from the movement of putting them back on. Anyone have any info on this. Thanks a bunch!

Yes, you're correct. The only thing I could see him doing (IF the bathmat print is his) is removing ONE sneaker to wash the hem of his pants in the bathroom.

 

[aa9511]

You are right, if only Amanda could remember this. She doesn't, that is the point I've been trying to make. The court did feel it was really that simple, hence they could not understand why amanda had no memory of making the call.

Her testimony is clear, the first call she made to her mother was to tell her of finding Meredith's body. Period.
Does not matter that the wrong time was referenced.

Yes, exactly. Does anyone know what the process of making a call out-of-the country was on Amanda's cell phone? Usually one has to use a calling card, which requires dialing a direct number and then entering a pin # afterwards. The calling card # (and resulting pin #) can be saved in your phone from most online sellers, but there is still at least one prompt you have to follow. Which makes it at least a 2-step process:

1. Push button to call the calling card number (if saved in phone).
2. At prompt, enter in the phone number you wish to call (in this case, mothers phone number). Calling U.S. would be 001 from Italy (on google). So 001 + (mother's full phone number).
3. Then you usually have press # for the call to go through.

As one can see, it is not a one-button process like it is for non-international calls. I'm not saying it's a lot more. But the more steps there are to a call, the more logical it is that someone would remember making the call.

Just a thought.

Also, it we're talking about phrasing, if one comes from the viewpoint that Amanda said something during that phone call to her mother which suggested or implied her knowing about the murder prior to the murder being discovered, then the phrasing of the quesiton ("first phone call to your mother.....before anything had happened") should have made it MORE CLEAR to Amanda precisely which phone call Comodi was referring to.

 

[otto]

Thanks otto. The whole footprint thing just doesn't gel for me on the lone wolf theory. And in the last thread when discussing the bath mat print to me there were clearly marks on the mat where the measurements began, they were just faint because they weren't on the pile part of the mat.

Sorry to bring up a different issue in the midst of the present conversation. Thanks for your answer!

The present discussion is a complete repeat of the same viewpoint of the same topic that was had on November 20.

Regarding the bloody barefoot print on the bathmat, a theory has been presented that Guede removed his shoes, went to the small bathroom, washed his pants, water dripped down his leg and created the partial bloody print. This theory is based on Guede's claim (in his self serving diary) that there was a wet spot on his pants, a spot that he claimed he could cover with his sweatshirt as he made his way home after the murder. The assumption is that the pants were wet due to water. Guede also claims that after arriving home, he changed his pants because there was blood on them. That suggests to me that his pants were wet because they had blood on them.

Guede claims that he went to the bathroom to get towels, not to wash his clothes. If we stick with what he said, and do not try to wrap a theory around evidence, then we can assume that Guede went to the small bathroom to get towels and he brought those towels to Meredith. If there are no bloody shoe prints leading to and from the bathroom, then either this this did not happen, or the only instance where he attempted to obscure evidence was when he was allegedly helping Meredith. How is that believable.

However, if we forget about the towels, and focus only on the bloody barefoot print, and try to imagine how it could belong to Guede, then we have to create an entire scenario that is not in any way supported by the evidence.

 

[SMK]

I think it's a matter of perception. To me it seems as if Amanda is trying to cut Edda off before she can spill the beans. IMO, Edda is definitely questioning her reason for the first call. She even said but it was before anything really happened.

BBM -
This is my intuition/VISCERAL reaction, too: It comes unbidden. Not saying it's the truth, but it signals me in the gut immediately. It's like that feeling when an elevator door opens, and you see the person inside, and something makes you turn and walk away. It's spontaneous.

 

[geevee]

Thanks otto. The whole footprint thing just doesn't gel for me on the lone wolf theory. And in the last thread when discussing the bath mat print to me there were clearly marks on the mat where the measurements began, they were just faint because they weren't on the pile part of the mat.

Sorry to bring up a different issue in the midst of the present conversation. Thanks for your answer!

I'd rather talk about the bath mat anyways. LOL

Were the foot chart and footprints with measurements (that have been posted here) done by prosecution/defense/experts on the case and used in the trial, or were they made by the websites/blogs they appeared on to reflect what was stated in trial? I'm not clear on where those came from.

 

[SMK]

The present discussion is a complete repeat of the same viewpoint of the same topic that was had on November 20.

I hope you're not mad, Otto; sometimes a discussion does not feel "over", and has to be gone over again, as something was left unsaid.

 

[otto]

Exactly. Why?
It's entirely possible he went to the bathroom in his shoes.
He removed them to wash his pants, leaving the bare footprint in the process.
He returned to his victim, went through her belongings, stepped on the bloody towel and left some bloody shoeprints.

Luminol evidence identifies Guede's shoeprints leaving Meredith's bedroom, going down the corridor to the exit, and becoming more faint as he approaches the exit. If he walked from Meredith to the bathroom and back, there would be luminol evidence ... and there isn't.

That's how we know that Guede did not walk from the bedroom to the bathroom wearing his bloody shoes.

Or ... is the suggestion that there was no blood on his shoes after participating in the murder of Meredith and that would explain why there are no bloody footprints from Meredith to the bathroom and back. That would also explain why there are no bloody shoeprints belonging to Sollecito. We still have the bloody print on the pillow case that has a consistent size with Knox's shoe size.

 

[geevee]

Exactly. Why?
It's entirely possible he went to the bathroom in his shoes.
He removed them to wash his pants, leaving the bare footprint in the process.
He returned to his victim, went through her belongings, stepped on the bloody towel and left some bloody shoeprints.

I read the German Diary of RG's that was posted the other day, he says he got a towel from the bathroom to hold against her neck, it got soaked and didn't stop the bleeding (or help) so he got another, with same results - I saw a towel on the bed in a photo, which did not look like anyone held that against a hemorrhaging wound - was there another towel found? I didn't see a second in the pics.

 

[SMK]

ITA. It's the combination of Amanda avoiding it, deliberately not wanting to acknowledge it, and IMO lying about it, along with the context of when the call took place as the events were unfolding, and along with the context of the other calls Amanda and RS made during the time. Also her mother questioning her about that specific call, which lends one to think that there was something important about that call pertaining to events surrounding Meredith's murder.

Well, well stated.

Although some here are annoyed that we continue to discuss this call , if one is psychologically-minded and intuitive, the truth pivots on this call.

What you have stated here is exactly the reason, for example, some detectives rely on intuition (they will come back to a point later if they have no logic to back it up, but they have 'flagged' it, as it were.)

Again: Bravo.

 

[geevee]

That is your interpretation but IMO Edda is saying how could you have told me these things before you were supposed to know Merideth was dead. To me it isn't accurate that Edda was asking why she couldn't remember. JMO



My answers bolded

What time was the door broken down?

 

[otto]

I'd rather talk about the bath mat anyways. LOL

Were the foot chart and footprints with measurements (that have been posted here) done by prosecution/defense/experts on the case and used in the trial, or were they made by the websites/blogs they appeared on to reflect what was stated in trial? I'm not clear on where those came from.

A website themurderofmeredithkercher published the chart with dimesions that were based on the actual dimensions from the photos in the Rinaldi report. The chart was deleted for some reason. Perhaps someone here wants to recreate the chart based on Rinaldi's photos of the prints. It's very clear from the chart that most of the measurements in the bath mat print are consistent with the dimensions of Sollecito's foot.

 

[aa9511]

I see.

The theory is that Amanda lied about not remembering the phone call.

because...

"she did not want to commit to knowing more earlier"

I'm not sure I understand what you exactly mean by this phrase but I think that discovering an apparent break-in, traces of blood and traces of presence of a stranger in the house, together with the fact that Meredith was not answering her phone and her door was locked justify the phone call.

Consider that the phone call was made at 12:47, when all this was already apparent, not at 12:00, before the discovery of the break-in or calls to Meredith, as prosecutor Comodi falsely stated.

Exactly. Then why did she lie? Why did she deny ever making that phone call?

It's all so excrutiatingly simple when you view it from a "guilty" standpoint. She knew what was behind those doors the entire time. She said something to her mother which suggested that she knew what was behind the doors. And she did not want that information getting out to prosecutors. MOO.

I'm beginning to see in this case, that all of Amanda's actions/words make sense coming from a standpoint of viewing her as "guilty" and as knowing exactly what happened to Meredith because she was there, and very little of it makes sense coming from the viewpoint that Amanda knew nothing about what happened to Meredith because she wasn't there.

So it's like this line -------------------------------> Guilty

and this -----
------
-------
--
-------
-------------
----
-> Not guilty

Hmm....I know which one I'm going with.

 

[Myvice]

I'd rather talk about the bath mat anyways. LOL

Were the foot chart and footprints with measurements (that have been posted here) done by prosecution/defense/experts on the case and used in the trial, or were they made by the websites/blogs they appeared on to reflect what was stated in trial? I'm not clear on where those came from.

I'm not sure either. The arguments at the time seemed to be based on what was posted here so I assumed they were from the evidence. I could be wrong though as I tend to skim things if I have distractions on the home front.

 

[Amber29]

I read the German Diary of RG's that was posted the other day, he says he got a towel from the bathroom to hold against her neck, it got soaked and didn't stop the bleeding (or help) so he got another, with same results - I saw a towel on the bed in a photo, which did not look like anyone held that against a hemorrhaging wound - was there another towel found? I didn't see a second in the pics.

Yes there was a blood soaked towel found near Meredith IIRC

 

[otto]

Yes, you're correct. The only thing I could see him doing (IF the bathmat print is his) is removing ONE sneaker to wash the hem of his pants in the bathroom.

There's a problem with that too. The whole theory about wet pants stems from Guede's diary, where he said that he was able to cover the wet spot on his pants with his sweatshirt. That precludes the possibility that the wet spot was on the hem of his pants.

 

[aa9511]

It seems to me that people are discussing this phone call on some other forum and then bringing it here for the purpose of promoting the idea that the prosecution is corrupt, or that something underhanded was done. I believe it was MichaelSmith that introduced this very same point with the very same persepctive a couple of weeks ago. We debated the entire scenario, with numerous links.

I would suggest that anyone that is concerned about the phone call, and how it was discussed during trial, should read two threads back for to find the discussion.

bbm

Yes, thank you Otto! We just went over topic of the phone call for a very long time and in great detail just very recently. I feel like I'm having deja vu.