Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#8

[Allusonz]

Knox and Sollecito had pizza dinner with Sollecito's friends. Sollecito was asked to go to the police station after dinner to answer a few questions. They arrived between 10:30 and 11 PM. Knox voluntarily went to the police station.

Knox did her stretches/yoga/cartwheels to capture the officer's attention ... and succeeded. Sollecito was answering questions. At some point, he admitted that he told a load of rubbish and claimed that the rubbish he told was to appease Knox.

Some time after 11, Knox was asked to answer a couple of questions. We know that she couldn't communicate with the officers, as a translator was requested. It took about an hour for the translator to arrive. After questions were asked in Italian, they were translated to English, the questions were answered in English, and then the English answers were translated to Italian ... meaning the conversation took twice as long as it would have taken had everyone spoken the same language. By 1:30 AM, Knox signed an English language, typed statement confirming the testimony she gave to police. That statement changed her status from witness to suspect and she was arrested.

This once again is a complete misrepresentation of the facts and I must enquire when is it going to stop? This time I am asking for cites, and if they are not forthcoming, I will be asking to admit to being misinformed.

AK and RS did not arrive at the police station between 10:30 and 11:00. They arrived hours earlier, and according to RS he was being interrogated for at least 5 hours. During this time AK was working on her assignments. During the course of the long wait, of approximately 5 hours, AK needed to stretch, and proceeded to do some yoga. stretches etc. After a number of hours of being observed, this is the best that PLE could come up with? Yoga stretching? Seriously?

AK was on the phone with Filomena, when PLE (remember it was decided many threads ago to distinguish between Italian Law Enforcement abbreviated to ILE, and Perugia Law Enforcement abbreviated to PLE) informed AK that they wished to speak with her.

Please refer to the 10:29 call with Filomena while she was at the police station.

If by your assertion, AK had made a confession by 1:30 a.m., the interrogation would of stopped and there would of been no need for the later statement. This should be ANYONE's first clue. Once LE gets the statement the interrogation stops. There were NO english statements. The statement was translated from Italian to English, then back to Italian, over and over.

Anyone would know that AK and RS were suspects from the start, as per Mignini stating all their calls had been tapped. That is commen sense.

I repeatedly request cites, yet they are never forthcoming thus I am now going to insist on them, if factual information is contradicted again. These version of events continue to morph, and it simply must stop. We have to work off of the facts that are known

RS never changed his version. As he states in this interview, PLE would not clarify which day they wanted information. This was done on purpose, not in the name of justice for MK, but to support a theory they had. As well, RS states at approximately 11:14 in this interview, the fact that AK had by then been waiting 5 hours.

BBC HARDtalk - Raffaele Sollecito (5/9/13) - YouTube

 

[Allusonz]

No, no, no......there would have been (diluted) bloody spatter and "diluted traces" in many more places. Also drip, drip, drip some diluted bloody stains from his pants leg.

Also let's not forget bloody shoeprints and some blood drippings from his hands and as he was going to the bathroom.

Crikey, you all must be very neat and clean in your bathrooms. I can barely get some mud off without leaving a mess anywhere.

Why would there be blood splatter in the bathroom? That is not the room MK was murdered in.

Why could there not be towels in both the room and bathroom?

 

[Allusonz]

I actually think that the case is very straight forward. However, if one becomes bogged down in conjecture from foreigners implying that the Italian justice system is corrupt, stupid, incompetent, and so forth, it may appear confusing.

I don't believe anyone is stating that the entire Italian system is completely corrupt. We are looking at the AK case. There is a reason that in high profile cases gag orders are issued.

The jury pool was tainted by the press coverage and even on this forum there is alot of misinformation which has been proven time and again to be false, asserted as the truth.

Now back to my 10:13 p.m. phone call. Does anyone here believe that MK would simply toss 2 phones, one she did not own, in a garden for what would appear to be no reason whatsoever?

There are some facets to the Italian system I appreciate. One is the Motivational report. It does not mean that one should take a judge's reasoning as gospel. It should be looked at OBJECTIVELY.

 

[Allusonz]

That bloody footprint attributed to Sollecito sure does seem to be difficult to shrink and put on Guede.

SBM

The bathmat print cannot be attributed to anyone. Period. It is not a full print and it is on an uneven surface. Thus it becomes non-evidence.

 

[sherlockh]

Curatolo is a witness in THREE murders.. shouldn't that be enough said? Do you find this a little bizarre?
He was flustered, confused and his testimony inadvertently provided AK & RS w/ an alibi. So they change the TOD closer to midnight to correct the discrepancy.. Curatolo over science, right. I think this was a huge embarrassment for them, their only eye witness was thrown in jail and left to die. Was anyone surprised to hear the news? I wasn't.

How can I judge a witness in other cases without even knowing what those cases and the testimony was all about? Prosecutor Crini made the point that Curatolo had shown himself to be a reliable witness before. That is how it works. You can't just judge someone on the basis of him having been a witness before without knowing the details. That makes no sense.

I don't necessarily think mud/grass would have been left on the outside wall ... after he climbed the grate, stepped on that lip, then the nail , the only thing that would touch the wall as he hoisted himself to the sill would be the tips of his toes dragging behind him.

Yah maybe, there are several other points with the break-in that are more important IMO.

 

[SMK]

SBM

The bathmat print cannot be attributed to anyone. Period. It is not a full print and it is on an uneven surface. Thus it becomes non-evidence.

Sorry, I can't always keep up with all the facts and proceedings of this case. Was the bathmat print formally ruled to be "non-evidence" due to the reasons you state, or is this part of international protocols? Thanks.

 

[Allusonz]

Here is a video of Maria Del Prato discussing the nursery breakin.


It is in English.

Maria Del Prato Discusses Rudy Guede Breaking Into Her Nursery. - YouTube

 

[SMK]

Here is a video of Maria Del Prato discussing the nursery breakin.


It is in English.

Maria Del Prato Discusses Rudy Guede Breaking Into Her Nursery. - YouTube

I must say, it does make me wonder: Had this woman not had her six year old son and two locksmiths with her, what would Guede have done when she encountered him, shocked, and alone? She stood there in shock, he calmly said he was from Perugia, and needed a place to stay. But who breaks into a children's nursery?

 

[redheadedgal]

Isn't it true that the statements from 1:45 AM and 5 AM on November 6 were excluded from the proceedings?

If they were excluded, how are they relevant today?

i wasn't the one who brought them up...

Knox and Sollecito had pizza dinner with Sollecito's friends. Sollecito was asked to go to the police station after dinner to answer a few questions. They arrived between 10:30 and 11 PM. Knox voluntarily went to the police station.

Knox did her stretches/yoga/cartwheels to capture the officer's attention ... and succeeded. Sollecito was answering questions. At some point, he admitted that he told a load of rubbish and claimed that the rubbish he told was to appease Knox.

Some time after 11, Knox was asked to answer a couple of questions. We know that she couldn't communicate with the officers, as a translator was requested. It took about an hour for the translator to arrive. After questions were asked in Italian, they were translated to English, the questions were answered in English, and then the English answers were translated to Italian ... meaning the conversation took twice as long as it would have taken had everyone spoken the same language. By 1:30 AM, Knox signed an English language, typed statement confirming the testimony she gave to police. That statement changed her status from witness to suspect and she was arrested.

 

[MichaelSmith]

Thanks for the link ... on the same transcript, we see what Knox has to say about her towel:

"Okay. I can't remember if I brushed my teeth before or after taking a shower. I think...before...I don't remember. I did brush my teeth, but I don't know if it was before or after the shower. Anyway, I got into the shower, took the shower, and then, getting out of the shower, I used the bathmat to kind of hop over to my room, because I had forgotten my towel. Then I took my towel, returned to the bathroom, dried myself and put my earrings back in. Then I went into my room, got some clothes and dressed."

She forgot her towel, meaning that she did not expect her towel to be in the bathroom ... meaning that she kept her towel in her bedroom. Back to Guede's self-serving remark about getting Meredith's towels from the bathroom ... I don't believe that Meredith kept her towels in the bathroom either.

At this point (nov 4) Amanda didn't know Guede had taken her towel and it was in Meredith's bedroom soaked in blood so she assumed she had forgotten it imo.

 

[Allusonz]

Everybody can think whatever they want but that doesn't mean that a few people on the internet determine how evidence should be weighed or how trials in Italy work. Italian law says that a judge should fit the evidence into a possible scenario and should discuss a possible motive. The misunderstanding is that people think the judge should describe the one and only scenario and motive fitting the evidence. It can happen that different judges and prosecutors see another scenario that still fits all the evidence. In the end what matters is that the totality of the evidence makes it clear that Guede, Sollecito and Knox are all 3 equally responsible for the murder of Meredith Kercher, and who exactly made the first move or opened the door for who are all relatively minor details compared to that. JMO.

Considering the totality of the evidence, it should never of gone to Court, and charges should never of been brought. Some evidence should never of been allowed in a Court of Law whether here or in Italy.

Once an error has been introduced, that evidence cannot be brought into trial.

What is to say that the door was closed when MK arrived at the cottage? Can anyone provide me with proof that door was locked when Merideth arrived?

 

[otto]

This once again is a complete misrepresentation of the facts and I must enquire when is it going to stop? This time I am asking for cites, and if they are not forthcoming, I will be asking to admit to being misinformed.

AK and RS did not arrive at the police station between 10:30 and 11:00. They arrived hours earlier, and according to RS he was being interrogated for at least 5 hours. During this time AK was working on her assignments. During the course of the long wait, of approximately 5 hours, AK needed to stretch, and proceeded to do some yoga. stretches etc. After a number of hours of being observed, this is the best that PLE could come up with? Yoga stretching? Seriously?

AK was on the phone with Filomena, when PLE (remember it was decided many threads ago to distinguish between Italian Law Enforcement abbreviated to ILE, and Perugia Law Enforcement abbreviated to PLE) informed AK that they wished to speak with her.

Please refer to the 10:29 call with Filomena while she was at the police station.

If by your assertion, AK had made a confession by 1:30 a.m., the interrogation would of stopped and there would of been no need for the later statement. This should be ANYONE's first clue. Once LE gets the statement the interrogation stops. There were NO english statements. The statement was translated from Italian to English, then back to Italian, over and over.

Anyone would know that AK and RS were suspects from the start, as per Mignini stating all their calls had been tapped. That is commen sense.

I repeatedly request cites, yet they are never forthcoming thus I am now going to insist on them, if factual information is contradicted again. These version of events continue to morph, and it simply must stop. We have to work off of the facts that are known

RS never changed his version. As he states in this interview, PLE would not clarify which day they wanted information. This was done on purpose, not in the name of justice for MK, but to support a theory they had. As well, RS states at approximately 11:14 in this interview, the fact that AK had by then been waiting 5 hours.

November 5

From Transcripts:

CP: For what reason did you go to the Questura on November 5? Were you called?

AK: No, I wasn't called. I went with Raffaele because I didn't want to be alone.

...
CDV: It's only four lines. On this page, I see a number 83, probably from the dossier, there's a little drawing and a sun. I'm also reading the mistakes in Italian. "My mom is arriving tomorrow. I'm very happy about that. I actually ate dinner with friends" or "I prepared it", I don't know). "Raffaele's friends. But now I'm very tired. I don't want to stay." Can I show you this document and ask for confirmation that it was written by you, and again ask you where and when?

AK: So I wrote this--

CDV: First, do you recognize your handwriting?

AK: Yes, this is mine. I wrote it when I was at the Questura waiting for Raffaele. It was actually at the very beginning. I took this and started writing. Then the policemen...sorry, it was November 5, 2007.

Confirmed by Dempsey:

"Sollecito was interviewed without audio or videotaping, on 5 November 2007 from around 10 pm, while Knox waited in a side room."

Reference: Dempsey pgs 136, 144 (could someone that has C Dempsey's book handy check the pages)

Other sources confirm the time that the questioning of Sollecito as a witness began at 10:40 (haven't found link from six years ago yet)

Transcripts: http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Amanda_Knox's_Testimony; http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?p=80193

Statements from November 6 at 1:40 AM and 5 AM we excluded from the proceedings many years ago. Is there any particular reason why they are relevant today? I agree that it is important to stick to the facts, especially facts that are relevant to the case.

 

[otto]

At this point (nov 4) Amanda didn't know Guede had taken her towel and it was in Meredith's bedroom soaked in blood so she assumed she had forgotten it imo.

Knox does not say that she expected her towel to be in the bathroom and that it wasn't there. She says that she forgot to get her towel. There is no reason to add words to what Knox said. She can mess up the truth well enough without any help.

 

[Allusonz]

Nothing wrong with British virgins. In Italy you can not lie as a witness. This can have legal consequences. You can lie as a suspect though. So we have several witnesses that tell the same story and that means they are unreliable? Then we have the suspect Knox who keeps changing her story. I don't see the logic why one would be unreliable and not the other.

Really?

Can you explain Stepanoni's being caught lying under oath while on the stand? The first one that comes to mind is lying over the TMB tests.

How about Comodi, trying to introduce false negative controls? The list goes on.....

 

[Allusonz]

Knox does not say that she expected her towel to be in the bathroom and that it wasn't there. She says that she forgot to get her towel. There is no reason to add words to what Knox said. She can mess up the truth well enough without any help.

She is not the only one!

 

[otto]

i wasn't the one who brought them up...

I understand that the statement was in both Italian and English. I mentioned the English language version and signing of the document at the end of the evening. The Italian version was linked upthread - perhaps with the implication that there was no English version. Mention of the document was less important than the timeline of events that evening. Thanks for linking the Italian version of the document that was not in evidence from the beginning of the trial onward.

 

[otto]

She is not the only one!

Absolutely. It becomes problematic when Sollecito stated that he arrived at the police station after 10 and after having dinner with his friends, and then years later that has morphed into something completely different. Perhaps Knox and Sollecito should have words with Dempsey for recording the facts several years ago, before Knox and Sollecito had second thoughts about the truth versus their new truth.

 

[MichaelSmith]

Really?

Can you explain Stepanoni's being caught lying under oath while on the stand? The first one that comes to mind is lying over the TMB tests.

How about Comodi, trying to introduce false negative controls? The list goes on.....

Yep and she also lied about how much DNA was on the knife saying 36B was a few hundred picograms.

 

[otto]

Sorry, I can't always keep up with all the facts and proceedings of this case. Was the bathmat print formally ruled to be "non-evidence" due to the reasons you state, or is this part of international protocols? Thanks.

The bath mat print has been attributed to Sollecito by the courts. That's a fact.

 

[otto]

Yep and she also lied about how much DNA was on the knife saying 36B was a few hundred picograms.

Is that bigger or smaller than a spec of dust?