Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#8

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The 'interrogation' did not take many, many, many hours. It took about one hour. Interpreter arrived at 12:30am and statement was typed up at 1:45am.
That's not correct. Opening time of the 'minutes' marks only the official time the interrogation started.
According to Donnino Amanda was already being questioned when she arrived. Official minutes were opened at some time later. The interrogation lasted to "5am or a llitle before 5am" according to Giobbi.

Incidentally Giobbi also testified he ordered Amanda and Raffaele to be interrogated simultaneously that night. He says Amanda had been questioned before for 3-4 hours each time, but the night interrogation was "the longest", lasting from around 10pm to around 5am. They halted only then and passed her to Mignini.

(see links in the post above)
 
That's not correct. Opening time of the 'minutes' marks only the official time the interrogation started.
According to Donnino Amanda was already being questioned when she arrived. Official minutes were opened at some time later. The interrogation lasted to "5am or a llitle before 5am" according to Giobbi.

Incidentally Giobbi also testified he ordered Amanda and Raffaele to be interrogated simultaneously that night. He says Amanda had been questioned before for 3-4 hours each time, but the night interrogation was "the longest", lasting from around 10pm to around 5am. They halted only then and passed her to Mignini.
What does it matter when 1:45am is the moment that AK falsely accuses Patrick? Giobbi doesn't say AK is being interrogated continuously. He is talking about the time police is with her including breaks. I doubt there was much questioning before 12:30am. AK was busy doing the splits and I thought she didn't understand much Italian? The 1:45am statement was very short and that couldn't have taken very long to type up. After that AK is an official suspect, gets tea and cookies, takes a nap and all that is left is a spontaneous statement at 5:45am.

Interpreter gave a detailed account of the questioning between 12:30am and 1:45am including the false accusation. So no matter if anyone disagrees about what happened after 1:45am. She clearly says they made the 1:45am statement from the moment that AK made the false accusation. So 1:45am was the exact moment.
 
What does it matter when 1:45am is the moment that AK falsely accuses Patrick? Giobbi doesn't say AK is being interrogated continuously. He is talking about the time police is with her including breaks. I doubt there was much questioning before 12:30am. AK was busy doing the splits and I thought she didn't understand much Italian? The 1:45am statement was very short and that couldn't have taken very long to type up. After that AK is an official suspect, gets tea and cookies, takes a nap and all that is left is a spontaneous statement at 5:45am.

Interpreter gave a detailed account of the questioning between 12:30am and 1:45am including the false accusation. So no matter if anyone disagrees about what happened after 1:45am. She clearly says they made the 1:45am statement from the moment that AK made the false accusation. So 1:45am was the exact moment.

One hour and fifteen minutes after Knox voluntarily reported to the police station (to keep Sollecito company and to perform the yoga splits) on November 5, 2007 in Perugia, with a professional interpreter by her side, she gave and signed a detailed police statement implicating her boss, Patrick Lumumba, for murder; a man whom she believed to be alone at his club that evening.
 
What does it matter when 1:45am is the moment that AK falsely accuses Patrick? Giobbi doesn't say AK is being interrogated continuously. He is talking about the time police is with her including breaks.
I don't see Giobbi talking about breaks in his testimony. Please provide a quote if you have one.

1:45 is the start of the minutes of interrogation. According to Giobbi and Donnino they halted the interrogation and called Mignini after the accusation emerged. Giobbi says it happened at 5am or a "little before 5am".
Donnino pretends she doesn't remember any times and says nothing in her testimony.

Interpreter gave a detailed account of the questioning between 12:30am and 1:45am including the false accusation. So no matter if anyone disagrees about what happened after 1:45am. She clearly says they made the 1:45am statement from the moment that AK made the false accusation. So 1:45am was the exact moment.
Not true. Donnino says she can't remember what time the accusation occurred.
She recalls there was only a brief pause after which Mignini took over.
This is in agreement with Giobbi's testimony who places the moment at around 5am in the morning.


Interestingly there is no closing time indicated in the minutes of interrogation. Nor is there any record that Amanda was asked if she needs a lawyer. Of course there is no video or audio recording. This lack of record and apparent amnesia of the interrogators in their court testimony is symptomatic of the entire overnight interrogation.
 
One hour and fifteen minutes after Knox voluntarily reported to the police station (to keep Sollecito company and to perform the yoga splits) on November 5, 2007 in Perugia, with a professional interpreter by her side, she gave and signed a detailed police statement implicating her boss, Patrick Lumumba, for murder; a man whom she believed to be alone at his club that evening.
Not true. See Giobbi's and Donnino's testimony I linked above.
 
Very good points!

Edgardo Giobbi testified she was interrogated from around 10pm to around 5am.

http://www.amandaknox.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Trascrizioni-2009-May-29-Sbardella-Politi-Codispoti-Giobbi.pdf (p. 205-206)

Anna Donnino admitted to telling Amanda in the course of the interrogation how a traumatic event left her with amnesia. Clearly she was working along with the interrogators to undermine Amanda's recollection and make her 'hypothesize'. That rules her out as a proper impartial interpreter. She described herself as working as "mediator" in her own testimony.

http://www.amandaknox.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Trascrizioni-2009-May-13.doc (original p. 168)


It seems there was quite a lot of pressure during the overnight interrogation.

BBM

Was it the interpreter that coerced and traumatized Knox ... nine hours of imaginary none stop interrogation head hits, deprivation of food, water and toilet breaks, and verbal abuse? All of this drama apparently occurred even though Knox had a late dinner between 9-10 PM, didn't show up at the Police Station until 10:40, but signed her statement (assisted by a professional interpreter) at 1:45 AM? This trauma resulted in forcing Knox to accuse an innocent man of murder ... nine hours later, which in reality is one hour and fifteen minutes?

There is pressure, more so since the release of well compensated fictional works from the convicted murders, to forget the facts and go along with the newest version of reality as published by those convicted murderers.
 
Not true. See Giobbi's and Donnino's testimony I linked above.

The timeline is well known today. Chris Mellas' version, which he learned from his stepdaughter, included 54 hours of torturous interrogation (perhaps 91 hours). Today, it is known that Knox was so comfortable at the police station that she went there even when she was mot wanted (was she trying to keep an eye on developments?), and that when she was there, she tried to draw attention to herself by acting in an inappropriate manner (such as doing yoga splits at the police station during a murder investigation)

Did Knox, in her book, claim that there was a phone call prior to the 12:47 call?
 
I don't see Giobbi talking about breaks in his testimony. Please provide a quote if you have one.

1:45 is the start of the minutes of interrogation. According to Giobbi and Donnino they halted the interrogation and called Mignini after the accusation emerged. Giobbi says it happened at 5am or a "little before 5am".
Donnino pretends she doesn't remember any times and says nothing in her testimony.

Not true. Donnino says she can't remember what time the accusation occurred.
She recalls there was only a brief pause after which Mignini took over.
This is in agreement with Giobbi's testimony who places the moment at around 5am in the morning.

Interestingly there is no closing time indicated in the minutes of interrogation. Nor is there any record that Amanda was asked if she needs a lawyer. Of course there is no video or audio recording. This lack of record and apparent amnesia of the interrogators in their court testimony is symptomatic of the entire overnight interrogation.
She does remember the moment. She says the statement is typed up at the moment of the accusation. So 1:45am is when it happened. There really is no disagreement about this in court, so I am confused why you think it is all different.
<modsnip>
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Anna_Donnino's_Testimony_(English)

It is pretty obvious anyway since the 1:45am statement is just about that accusation. Is not about some other questioning. There is nothing else on it but the false accusation. So the interpreter is right that this was the moment the statement was made, and it really doesn't matter how long it took them to type it up or if they begged AK to be a bit more clearer, or if the interpreter gave an example of amnesia, or whatever. The accusation was already made.
 
BBM

Was it the interpreter that coerced and traumatized Knox ... nine hours of imaginary none stop interrogation head hits, deprivation of food, water and toilet breaks, and verbal abuse? All of this drama apparently occurred even though Knox had a late dinner between 9-10 PM, didn't show up at the Police Station until 10:40, but signed her statement (assisted by a professional interpreter) at 1:45 AM? This trauma resulted in forcing Knox to accuse an innocent man of murder ... nine hours later, which in reality is one hour and fifteen minutes?

There is pressure, more so since the release of well compensated fictional works from the convicted murders, to forget the facts and go along with the newest version of reality as published by those convicted murderers.

Simply not true. You don't provide any links or quotes so I don't know where all the falsehoods are coming from.
 
The timeline is well known today. Chris Mellas' version, which he learned from his stepdaughter, included 54 hours of torturous interrogation (perhaps 91 hours). Today, it is known that Knox was so comfortable at the police station that she went there even when she was mot wanted (was she trying to keep an eye on developments?), and that when she was there, she tried to draw attention to herself by acting in an inappropriate manner (such as doing yoga splits at the police station during a murder investigation)

Did Knox, in her book, claim that there was a phone call prior to the 12:47 call?

She went to the police station with Raffaele because she didn't want to be alone at his apartment with a killer on the loose. If I understand what you are asserting, she possibly goes to the station to see if they are on to her, and then acts in a way to intentionally draw attention to herself ??
 
I see, so you appear to be on the far opposite edge of the spectrum from SMK who thinks that any call home at all was unnecessary. I'm glad to have you on my side with this, unexpectedly :)
Just to clarify my reasoning on that:

1. I think if AK went home to the cottage to shower, and saw some odd things it would make perfect sense to phone Raffaele and ask him to come over and see.
2. Then, once they'd looked around and discovered the broken window, of course you call 112 immediately.
3. After police have come, then it would make sense to begin notifying people: Mom in Seattle, sister, Filomena, etc.

Instead, there are calls to Filomena, sister, Mom in Seattle at off hour BEFORE phoning 112 . One could say there is a flurry of calls; too much calling. This makes me think along these lines:

"If we know that sometime today, a dead body will be discovered in this cottage, then we had better begin making a record of our bafflement and bewilderment, so that all can see just how very shocked and confused and NOT in-the-know we were. It will be on record that Meredith, Filomena, Mom, sister, AND 112 were all called."

I cannot tell you how many Lifetime crime movies based on a true story begin this way: With the criminal making a flurry of calls to their family: They can't find their wife, their friend, their child. They are baffled and stumped.

For me, it raises red flags aplenty. MOO :moo:
 
The timeline is well known today. Chris Mellas' version, which he learned from his stepdaughter, included 54 hours of torturous interrogation (perhaps 91 hours). Today, it is known that Knox was so comfortable at the police station that she went there even when she was mot wanted (was she trying to keep an eye on developments?), and that when she was there, she tried to draw attention to herself by acting in an inappropriate manner (such as doing yoga splits at the police station during a murder investigation)

Did Knox, in her book, claim that there was a phone call prior to the 12:47 call?

The 54 hours is detailed in Amanda's appeal document which I posted here showing the dates and times she was with the police for 53.75 hours. All the times are clearly laid out from the records. It was also in her appeal document to the SC.
 
The 54 hours is detailed in Amanda's appeal document which I posted here showing the dates and times she was with the police for 53.75 hours. All the times are clearly laid out from the records. It was also in her appeal document to the SC.

If it was so problematic for Knox to be at the police station, why did she voluntarily attend when Sollecito was asked to answer questions regarding irregularities in his statement on the evening of Nov. 5? Sure, we can say that Knos was so scared that she didn't leave his side, or we can ask why she didn't leave his side and stay with one of her many new girlfriends in Perugia?

Knox had options on the night that she voluntarily went to the police station on November 5, after enjoying dinner with Sollecito's friends. She chose to go to the police station to give a statement (which she thought was like CSI) knowing that her mother was arriving in the morning and she would be in Germany by noon ... but it didn't happen that way, mostly because real life is not like CS(.
 
Just to clarify my reasoning on that:

1. I think if AK went home to the cottage to shower, and saw some odd things it would make perfect sense to phone Raffaele and ask him to come over and see.
2. Then, once they'd looked around and discovered the broken window, of course you call 112 immediately.
3. After police have come, then it would make sense to begin notifying people: Mom in Seattle, sister, Filomena, etc.

Instead, there are calls to Filomena, sister, Mom in Seattle at off hour BEFORE phoning 112 . One could say there is a flurry of calls; too much calling. This makes me think along these lines:

"If we know that sometime today, a dead body will be discovered in this cottage, then we had better begin making a record of our bafflement and bewilderment, so that all can see just how very shocked and confused and NOT in-the-know we were. It will be on record that Meredith, Filomena, Mom, sister, AND 112 were all called."

I cannot tell you how many Lifetime crime movies based on a true story begin this way: With the criminal making a flurry of calls to their family: They can't find their wife, their friend, their child. They are baffled and stumped.

For me, it raises red flags aplenty. MOO :moo:
There is a Lifetime movie about this murder, too and they got the phone calls wrong in it :)

I can see where you are coming from, but I think the phone calls viewed in the context of the timeline and findings in the cottage are not odd.
I understand everything may be viewed as odd or suspicious especially when taken fragmentarily like what you did.
The problem I have with the proponents of guilt is that they do present all kinds of oddities and suspicious this or that, but there is never a follow up of putting the pieces together into a coherent and reasonable scenario with no pieces left on the table that don't fit and are left unexplained.
 
There is a Lifetime movie about this murder, too and they got the phone calls wrong in it :)

I can see where you are coming from, but I think the phone calls viewed in the context of the timeline and findings in the cottage are not odd.
I understand everything may be viewed as odd or suspicious especially when taken fragmentarily like what you did.
The problem I have with the proponents of guilt is that they do present all kinds of oddities and suspicious this or that, but there is never a follow up of putting the pieces together into a coherent and reasonable scenario with no pieces left on the table that don't fit and are left unexplained.
Yes, I understand this kind of reasoning can be wrong, and can take things out of context. But there is still the sense that everyone was being "put on high alert". I could be wrong, though.
 
<modsnip>

The quote I gave is very clear, too. Also the lawyers do remark that there is no closing time given for Amanda's interrogation in the summary, only the opening. 1:45 represents the beginning of official interrogation, after Donnino arrived. There is no time given for the finish in this testimony, only Donnino's remark that there was brief pause after which Mignini took over.

Giobbi testifies Amanda had been interrogated 3-4 hours daily, and the overnight interrogation was "the longest" starting around 10 pm and halted around 5am after which Mignini took over.

The length of the interrogation, not providing her with a lawyer despite the fact she was a suspect, the lack of recording, the manipulative remarks Donnino included during the interrogation, the screams Giobbi testified about, the emotional breakdown and shock others testified about all confirm that the interrogation was coercive.

It all confirms the account of the interrogation that Amanda made in writing immediately the day after and in even more detail in her letter on 9 November.
 
Yes, I understand this kind of reasoning can be wrong, and can take things out of context. But there is still the sense that everyone was being "put on high alert". I could be wrong, though.

I understand that we must operate on hunches and impressions when there is no solid undeniable facts confirming this or that.

What I'm trying to say is the things we derive in this way must ultimately fit a unified theory or scenario.

For example I have a sense that it's meaningful that the cops didn't tape the overnight session, and not only that but they also didn't make a detailed written summary of what had been asked and what were the answers. It's suspicious to me that the whole night of questioning results in few sentences on a single sheet of paper, that's the whole record.

But it does match the comprehensive theory in which Guede is guilty and the interrogators make a terrible error. I can piece together every element into this without loose ends.

OTOH I see no theory on the other side. People don't even agree with Crini and Crini doesn't agree with Massei and Massei doesn't agree with Mignini. Not only that, each one of them has to leave things out of the theory or include blatant "approximations" like the one Galati made about the phone call.
Crucial things like time of death are ever flowing ever changing.
 
I understand that we must operate on hunches and impressions when there is no solid undeniable facts confirming this or that.

What I'm trying to say is the things we derive in this way must ultimately fit a unified theory or scenario.

For example I have a sense that it's meaningful that the cops didn't tape the overnight session, and not only that but they also didn't make a detailed written summary of what had been asked and what were the answers. It's suspicious to me that the whole night of questioning results in few sentences on a single sheet of paper, that's the whole record.

But it does match the comprehensive theory in which Guede is guilty and the interrogators make a terrible error. I can piece together every element into this without loose ends.

OTOH I see no theory on the other side. People don't even agree with Crini and Crini doesn't agree with Massei and Massei doesn't agree with Mignini. Not only that, each one of them has to leave things out of the theory or include blatant "approximations" like the one Galati made about the phone call.
Crucial things like time of death are ever flowing ever changing.
OK, yes, I understand. I do think a few loose ends are left, but I can understand your purview very well. It was mine as well for over 2 years, until Hellmann was overturned, and I made a decision to begin anew (which has not been easy, after reading Hendry, Fisher, et al all that time. )
 
It is reported that Chris Mellas, amongst others, described him as a poor guest. He spent two months with Knox's mother/stepfather. Is he still welcome there, or were there problems?

There are independent reports in several countries supporting his legal problems.

I thought that the activities of the author of the Perugia Shock website might be of interest to those that believe that the Italian Judicial System is broken. He is the author of this angle. He is aligned with Douglas Preston and Spezi - who is also facing trial related to bad reporting.

I thought that we were supposed to supply links. When you say "it is reported," exactly where and to whom is it reported?

It would be nice to see if this is a news story or spurious gossip designed to malign anyone with an opposing position in this case.
 
The quote I gave is very clear, too. Also the lawyers do remark that there is no closing time given for Amanda's interrogation in the summary, only the opening. 1:45 represents the beginning of official interrogation, after Donnino arrived. There is no time given for the finish in this testimony, only Donnino's remark that there was brief pause after which Mignini took over.

Giobbi testifies Amanda had been interrogated 3-4 hours daily, and the overnight interrogation was "the longest" starting around 10 pm and halted around 5am after which Mignini took over.

The length of the interrogation, not providing her with a lawyer despite the fact she was a suspect, the lack of recording, the manipulative remarks Donnino included during the interrogation, the screams Giobbi testified about, the emotional breakdown and shock others testified about all confirm that the interrogation was coercive.

It all confirms the account of the interrogation that Amanda made in writing immediately the day after and in even more detail in her letter on 9 November.

Thank you for this. I had always assumed the 1:45 am was the ending time for the interrogation that produced the first statement. I can see that all assumptions must be challenged.
 
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