Andrea Lyon New DP Atty

[lin]

You didn't ask me, but it's an open forum/discussion.

At that point, JB all ready showed his MO wasn't to do any work on the case and get everyone else to do it for him. That only works for so long. Then the well runs dry. Whose fault is that?

So YES, it is my contention that JB would have to show he requested (correctly) the info from the FBI and received such a letter in reply, before moving to the next step.

Inhale, then repeat. Until he finally gets the idea of how to properly obtain official reports, etc.

Also part of his MO is to whine about something, that is/was his own fault. At some point, no one is going to take your whines serious.. not without proof. So SAYING he had a letter from the FBI means nothing. Whining that even whit the letter from the FBI he is getting no help, means nothing. If he didn't follow through and submit the proper paper work.. but tried to just rush into court without submiting paperwork and whining to the Judge for the JUDGE to do something about it, when it was his fault for not following procedures, etc...

Yeah! And what Spangle said!

 

[lin]

I personally don't understand AL's "winning record". After watching her at the motion hearing the other day, her court room presentation left much to be desired. I don't think she spoke well nor carried herself well.

Also, she signed the motion as well. As such, she should have read it in its entirety BEFORE signing it. So there for she knew what it contained. If it contained a forged document then she is just as culpable as JB. Rule #1, never sign anything without reading it first.

She's from Chicago and the residents there are very different from many other areas of the country, including the one in which I live and the one in which this case will be tried. Chicago is a 'don't look at anyone on the subway' kind of community; Orlando is not. I suspect she will try to adapt her demeanor to the local climate prior to trial.

In her defense, she is not required nor should she be expected to determine the validity of every attachment to every motion prior to signing a motion to the court. That attachment was proffered as a valid document by JB and she had no reason to question it. The state would have accepted it as the real McCoy as well, had they not been notified of the probable fraud involved, which is why they were so late in complaining. I don't for one second believe they "saved" that question for the hearing but instead, they weren't tipped off until shortly prior to the hearing.

 

[lin]

I think it is interesting how many people think she did poorly. I am no fan of KC or her defense team...but honestly I thought AL spoke very well and made good points (I didn't WANT to hear reason from KC's team--but AL was articulate and reasonable). She is a far far superior speaker than Baez and I would even go so far and say she seemed gracious to me when she asked the court clerk if she was speaking too fast (some of you thought she was condescending..I thought the opposite). This is what is so fascinating to me, how people view the same person, hear the same words, take in the entire same scene, but come away with such different views. This is why courtrooms are endlessly fascinating..because a jury will be like us! Some would like AL (despite or maybe because of her disheveled look) and some would not like her because she is aligned with who they think is a child killer. I will be interested to see how much more AL takes over--because clearly, she is smart. I think it may actually be smart to stay "disheveled" ..she is a professor..IMHO the jury would pay more attention to her reasoning and advocacy than her shoes. The "professor look" will probably actually earn her points with people who see her as caring more about law than vanity.

I do agree with you that she's very intelligent and I am one that appreciates a good job even if it's against me. I was meeting a friend one day for lunch after a hearing many years ago. From my attitude my pal assumed I had a big win at that hearing. Nope; lost all the way around but was full of praise for the guy that kicked my tail. He was freaking brilliant! I described it as, "I didn't even feel it when the knife went in!" It was a minor skirmish and I went on to win the war, as the facts were on my side. But the guy put on a GREAT show and challenged me.

AL loses points with me, a typical Florida potential jurist, for many, many reasons, not the least of which is making a very reasonable, credible sounding argument based on bad facts. Simply stating something in a reasonable way doesn't make it so and I'm kind of offended when folks do that. Without putting thought into it, the one that jumps to the top of my mind is her insistence on that very reasonable sounding argument against the state's right to a speedy trial. That was NOT the issue, although she went to great lengths to argue it. Were that the issue, I might have agreed with her but since it wasn't and it was stated prior to her long winded argument that it wasn't, I felt kind of cheated by that huge waste of my and the court's time; and also felt like I can't trust her to tell me what's going on. She's the type that will just go into a long winded and totally unrelated point she thinks she can win to confuse the issue.

 

[lin]

As info, the lead prosecutor in the Caylee Anthony case is Linda Drane Burdick - a woman.

But the person that made the statement you criticized was male, Mr. Ashton, iirc.

 

[Balthazar]

But the person that made the statement you criticized was male, Mr. Ashton, iirc.

Hmmm...I don't remember it that way. I remember Ms. Burdick telling LKB to go to the FBI for the discovery. However, I may have mixed up their names in my earlier post. I also remember Ms. Burdick telling Baez, in the courtroom, that she couldn't give him a specific piece of discovery because they didn't have a large format printer - which was completely lame and BS - any city engineers office has one of those printers which she could have accessed at any time or she could have simply sent her assistant to Kinkos to get it printed out. Even the judge questioned that excuse. This game playing over the discovery makes me wonder how confident the prosecution really is in their case. If they are confident, there is no need to slow anything down or hold anything back. At any rate, they need to be above reproach, not playing these silly games.

BTW: Just to set the record straight, AGAIN, I am NOT pro defense in any way, shape or form. I am looking at this situation from a balanced perspective. However, this silly jockeying for position by slowing the flow of discovery to the defense is the kind of thing that can open the door for appeal. I don't want to see that happen in this case.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

Hmmm...I don't remember it that way. I remember Ms. Burdick telling LKB to go to the FBI for the discovery. However, I may have mixed up their names in my earlier post. I also remember Ms. Burdick telling Baez, in the courtroom, that she couldn't give him a specific piece of discovery because they didn't have a large format printer - which was completely lame and BS - any city engineers office has one of those printers which she could have accessed at any time or she could have simply sent her assistant to Kinkos to get it printed out. Even the judge questioned that excuse. This game playing over the discovery makes me wonder how confident the prosecution really is in their case. If they are confident, there is no need to slow anything down or hold anything back. At any rate, they need to be above reproach, not playing these silly games.

BTW: Just to set the record straight, AGAIN, I am NOT pro defense in any way, shape or form. I am looking at this situation from a balanced perspective. However, this silly jockeying for position by slowing the flow of discovery to the defense is the kind of thing that can open the door for appeal. I don't want to see that happen in this case.

Princess....I'm not tryin to make this a pee-pee match....I really don't have the right to chastize you for being "pro defense" or not, that's why we're here, to give our opinions and discuss the case.
AND it's not at all what I was saying in my original response to your post.....please don't be so "defensive"....LOL...AND, I wasn't trying to be rude or offensive toward you.:blowkiss:

What I was just saying is the same thing "lin" mentioned in in her post #384....I wasn't implying that Ashton OR LDB said anything in ANY hearing or not. What I basically was alluding to, in my post, was just a joke about your original comment about ASHTON being "inexperienced/disorganized". And was joking about JB and that he was really no better.
Guess it's not good sarcasm on my part if I need to explain it....

ETA : Ashton has been a member of the bar since 1981 - in good standing, mind you.....no "discipline" issues for past 10 years.
http://www.floridabar.org/names.nsf/0/F942F30075A8EDCD85256A83006CA416?OpenDocument
I believe he's got things under control.
Baez is still pretty "wet behind the ears". And, AL, for being so "experienced", got the case # wrong, among other things during the hearing.

Guess I forgot to mention, this is all IMO, anyways.

 

[marspiter]

Hmmm...I don't remember it that way. I remember Ms. Burdick telling LKB to go to the FBI for the discovery. However, I may have mixed up their names in my earlier post. I also remember Ms. Burdick telling Baez, in the courtroom, that she couldn't give him a specific piece of discovery because they didn't have a large format printer - which was completely lame and BS - any city engineers office has one of those printers which she could have accessed at any time or she could have simply sent her assistant to Kinkos to get it printed out. Even the judge questioned that excuse. This game playing over the discovery makes me wonder how confident the prosecution really is in their case. If they are confident, there is no need to slow anything down or hold anything back. At any rate, they need to be above reproach, not playing these silly games.

BTW: Just to set the record straight, AGAIN, I am NOT pro defense in any way, shape or form. I am looking at this situation from a balanced perspective. However, this silly jockeying for position by slowing the flow of discovery to the defense is the kind of thing that can open the door for appeal. I don't want to see that happen in this case.

Personally I don't see the prosecution in this case dragging its feet or purposely slowing down the process. The state is releasing its evidence in a timely manner especially considering this case. There are many factors to consider here. One is the defense making it's motions for discovery clear and in a timely manner? So far JB has shown this is not the case. AL is a much higher caliber attorney and hopefully the same procedural errors by the defense will cease. So far they have yet to submit motions to the court in a timely fashion. Getting them in right at the stroke of the deadline is not considered timely or professional.

Did the defense make the request to the FBI properly? Normally asking for information from other agencies especially at the Federal level requires proper procedure do to all the checks and balances of federal quality assurance. I know in my job it's nothing for me to actually give the information out (takes a few minutes tops and costs the person requesting it 10 cents per page), but do to state regulations I can't do it unless the request is done properly. I assume Fed's have a greater level of QA.

Also given Florida's sunshine laws there could be reason for the slower trickle of information as the trial draws closer. This is not because the state has a weak case. It could be that the evidence is to inflammatory.

So far I just don't see the appealette issue you seem to be alluding to here. DP cases are not exactly like going in to district court for shop lifting or driving violations. They take time and proper procedures have to be followed because of that. The defense had it's opportunity to enact its right to speedy trial and have not enacted that right.

The court has honored continuances to accommodate AL's teaching schedule. A schedule she knew about before taking this case. So other then the defense delays I have not really seen any other examples of delaying this trial.

 

[lin]

Hmmm...I don't remember it that way. I remember Ms. Burdick telling LKB to go to the FBI for the discovery. However, I may have mixed up their names in my earlier post. I also remember Ms. Burdick telling Baez, in the courtroom, that she couldn't give him a specific piece of discovery because they didn't have a large format printer - which was completely lame and BS - any city engineers office has one of those printers which she could have accessed at any time or she could have simply sent her assistant to Kinkos to get it printed out. Even the judge questioned that excuse. This game playing over the discovery makes me wonder how confident the prosecution really is in their case. If they are confident, there is no need to slow anything down or hold anything back. At any rate, they need to be above reproach, not playing these silly games.

BTW: Just to set the record straight, AGAIN, I am NOT pro defense in any way, shape or form. I am looking at this situation from a balanced perspective. However, this silly jockeying for position by slowing the flow of discovery to the defense is the kind of thing that can open the door for appeal. I don't want to see that happen in this case.

I may have missed that one; else I've totally forgotten it. Will you please link to the transcript or video that you reference? Can't reply intelligently without it. I'm not suggesting you're pulling an "AL" and arguing a point that's not relevant but context is everything. TIA

BTW: I'm still not seeing any "silly games" being played by anyone other than the very credibility challenged defense. Some may assume that because they make a request, it must be reasonable. I'm not one of those people. I assume if they make a request it must be suspect in some regard because that has been their pattern, in my view. Come to think of it, which defense discovery complaint motion have they won on, so far? I don't remember any sanctions leveled at the prosecution or even a hard look from the court.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I am just reading comments in the Orlando Sentinel about Andrea Lyon, made by WFTV's Kathy Belich and Bill Sheaffer, their Legal Analyst, I think very highly of both of them.
"Last minute motions, incorrect motions, lack of motions, it's not the kind of work we were told to expect from Professor Andrea Lyons as they like to call her" said Kathi Belich. She goes on to list all the mistakes so far.
"There were several mis-steps" said Bill Sheaffer, and he added that "Lyons had been touted as an expert and a lawyer's lawyer".

 

[essies]

I am just reading comments in the Orlando Sentinel about Andrea Lyon, made by WFTV's Kathy Belich and Bill Sheaffer, their Legal Analyst, I think very highly of both of them.
"Last minute motions, incorrect motions, lack of motions, it's not the kind of work we were told to expect from Professor Andrea Lyons as they like to call her" said Kathi Belich. She goes on to list all the mistakes so far.
"There were several mis-steps" said Bill Sheaffer, and he added that "Lyons had been touted as an expert and a lawyer's lawyer".

Belich listed the mistakes: In seeking Texas EquuSearch records, defense lawyer Lyon had a last-minute motion with the wrong case number. Lyon hadn't filed the proper paper work to join the Anthony check fraud case. And the defense team failed to alert the media that it wants to keep public records secret.

"There were several missteps," WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said. And he added that Lyon had been touted as an expert and "a lawyer's lawyer."

What does it all mean? Could Anthony's legal dream team be a nightmare?

 

[Sammi99]

Hmmm...I don't remember it that way. I remember Ms. Burdick telling LKB to go to the FBI for the discovery. However, I may have mixed up their names in my earlier post. I also remember Ms. Burdick telling Baez, in the courtroom, that she couldn't give him a specific piece of discovery because they didn't have a large format printer - which was completely lame and BS - any city engineers office has one of those printers which she could have accessed at any time or she could have simply sent her assistant to Kinkos to get it printed out. Even the judge questioned that excuse. This game playing over the discovery makes me wonder how confident the prosecution really is in their case. If they are confident, there is no need to slow anything down or hold anything back. At any rate, they need to be above reproach, not playing these silly games.

BTW: Just to set the record straight, AGAIN, I am NOT pro defense in any way, shape or form. I am looking at this situation from a balanced perspective. However, this silly jockeying for position by slowing the flow of discovery to the defense is the kind of thing that can open the door for appeal. I don't want to see that happen in this case.

I completely agree with you. I too want the prosecution to win its case against Casey Anthony. That is why I sometimes wish they acted more professionally so there would be no grounds for an appeal to a guilty verdict. I have a lot of respect for Burdick but Ashton's smirks look really childish. I hope that they don't get too arrogant and underestimate the team that JB has put together.

 

[kew17]

I've looked at the docs filed today: New Trial Date Reply and Amended Response Motion.

Can they not get the date they want the check fraud trial to start straight or what - make up my mind, Oct or Nov? My question is that the trial date reply isn't even signed by AL or JB. I can understand a secretary or paralegal initialing a letter or notes, but shouldn't a "motion" tendered to the court require an authentic signature of the attorney making such motion? Also, AL is on that doc, but not the amended motion. How come? And finally, if she hasn't filed the proper paperwork to represent KC in the check fraud trial, why is she even on the new trial date doc?

THanks in advance for any clarification of these items.

 

[Brini]

Yeah! And what Spangle said!

Hasn't JS taken JB to task for not doing his homework, and following procedue, before? A COUPLE times?

 

[kew17]

Brini,
I guess that is my (and many other's) "fhrushtration" in all this! I just can't fit this absolute disregard for the rules in my brain. At some point his hands must become blistered from being slapped so much! As much as it makes me pretty mad , I'm gonna blow a cork :furious: if this "alleged" baby killer gets off on some petty technicality!

 

[Spangle]

Brini,
I guess that is my (and many other's) "fhrushtration" in all this! I just can't fit this absolute disregard for the rules in my brain. At some point his hands must become blistered from being slapped so much! As much as it makes me pretty mad , I'm gonna blow a cork :furious: if this "alleged" baby killer gets off on some petty technicality!

You got me pegged!

I thought Judges didn't allow any sort of disrespect. Doing so is suppose to get you in trouble. Continuing to do so, should get a chance to stay over night on the county's expense.

I understand the appeal part. But it seems like the Judge could do that, and still slap JB for wasting time, etc.

 

[lin]

You got me pegged!

I thought Judges didn't allow any sort of disrespect. Doing so is suppose to get you in trouble. Continuing to do so, should get a chance to stay over night on the county's expense.

I understand the appeal part. But it seems like the Judge could do that, and still slap JB for wasting time, etc.

...as he has slapped them in the past but so far, not the state.

 

[Brini]

They're casting those fishing nets as far as they can!! :furious:

Yes, I was going to ask about that.

Is is USUAL to request grant records from 12 years ago, and all that other stuff?

Is it desperation or thoroughness?

They asked for everything except the Oak Ridge scientists' lunch wrappers.

 

[Brini]

The prosecution's actions need to be beyond reproach. Either this is game playing or SA Ashton is inexperienced/disorganized. Neither possiblity is good. What an embarassment.

Yes, indeed. Mr Baez is a terrible embarrassment.

If he hadn't foot-dragged the trial until after Caylee's body was found, KC would be on the streets even now.

Now, he's STILL foot dragging. He's going to foot-drag KC into dying of old age in the slam.

 

[lin]

I do agree with you that she's very intelligent and I am one that appreciates a good job even if it's against me. I was meeting a friend one day for lunch after a hearing many years ago. From my attitude my pal assumed I had a big win at that hearing. Nope; lost all the way around but was full of praise for the guy that kicked my tail. He was freaking brilliant! I described it as, "I didn't even feel it when the knife went in!" It was a minor skirmish and I went on to win the war, as the facts were on my side. But the guy put on a GREAT show and challenged me.

AL loses points with me, a typical Florida potential jurist, for many, many reasons, not the least of which is making a very reasonable, credible sounding argument based on bad facts. Simply stating something in a reasonable way doesn't make it so and I'm kind of offended when folks do that. Without putting thought into it, the one that jumps to the top of my mind is her insistence on that very reasonable sounding argument against the state's right to a speedy trial. That was NOT the issue, although she went to great lengths to argue it. Were that the issue, I might have agreed with her but since it wasn't and it was stated prior to her long winded argument that it wasn't, I felt kind of cheated by that huge waste of my and the court's time; and also felt like I can't trust her to tell me what's going on. She's the type that will just go into a long winded and totally unrelated point she thinks she can win to confuse the issue.

Here's another example, if the pleadings filed today were written by AL:

Ok, so, um, well, the prosecution wants a trial date so let's go ahead and set a trial date. Hey, I'll even file the motion asking for a trial date. See what a nice person I am. I'll do their work for them and file that motion asking the court to set a trial date.

See how nice and reasonable that sounds? Except the state requested a trial set within the next 90 days and the date she requested is over a year away and really just gives her a year before she will burn her third and last request for a continuance enabling the state to invoke its right to a speedy trial. So, it's not so reasonable. And it's kind of insulting, imo.

 

[lin]

Yes, I was going to ask about that.

Is is USUAL to request grant records from 12 years ago, and all that other stuff?

Is it desperation or thoroughness?

They asked for everything except the Oak Ridge scientists' lunch wrappers.

page 439; paragraph c; subsection iv; #1802. They wanted the wrappers and dna swabs of the lunch boxes.

ETA: And all notes regarding meal planning; grocery lists, etc.