Anjelica "AJ" Hadsell - COD: "Heroin Poisoning"

[courtneyb]

Also, I'd like to add that I have suffered from intractable migraines for a decade at least 2-3 times per week and have been prescribed pain meds for them and unfortunately I have to take them often. I have a very high tolerance to opiates but the OxyContin, almost identical to heroin in structure, kicked my butt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ilovepierre]

From what I understand, the meaning is the same. I think heroin "poisoning" is just the technical term for "overdose."

moo

The meaning is the same, BUT "poisoning" has a more sinister connotation than "overdose."
There's a reason the ME called it a poisoning instead of an overdose.
IMO

 

[ilovepierre]

Didn't the tip come from the 2 men that seen the dark Caravan driving behind the abandoned house? Please correct me if I am wrong. So many strange things about this case that I can't keep up with who's who and what's what! :scared:

http://wtvr.com/2015/04/10/anjelica-aj-hadsell-remains-found-outside-abandoned-southampton-home/

Did they actually discover the body?
IIRC, they reported the Dodge Caravan to LE, and that's when searches started in that area.

 

[mpnola]

Am I able to quote a post from another thread? I hope so, because it is relevant to our discussion:

From http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ia-42-Maricopa-22-June-2015-3-*ARREST*/page22

Post #325 from Luvrosco
I'm so sorry you had to go through that. One of my neighbor's died recently. It was a heroin overdose. He was in his 3rd year at Harvard. The family had no idea he was using. So sad. His mom is a shell of herself now.

This. Its like when we tell our kids that bad guys dont wear big black trench coats and have snaggle teeth. they look like regular people, they have regular jobs, they are friendly. There is no "look" of a bad guy. There is no "look" of a drug user. They are in every age, every job, every social status. As someone said on that other thread, "pretty people do drugs, too."

I want to reiterate, I am not arguing the fact that Aj did or did not use drugs. I am just trying to dispel the myth that because someone is in college or because someone is an athlete or because someone looks a certain way that drugs are not a possibility. I worked in mental health (and therefore with addictions) for 16 years. You would be surprised at the very successful, well liked, pretty people that it touches.

 

[katydid23]

Am I able to quote a post from another thread? I hope so, because it is relevant to our discussion:

From http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ia-42-Maricopa-22-June-2015-3-*ARREST*/page22

Post #325 from Luvrosco
I'm so sorry you had to go through that. One of my neighbor's died recently. It was a heroin overdose. He was in his 3rd year at Harvard. The family had no idea he was using. So sad. His mom is a shell of herself now.

This. Its like when we tell our kids that bad guys dont wear big black trench coats and have snaggle teeth. they look like regular people, they have regular jobs, they are friendly. There is no "look" of a bad guy. There is no "look" of a drug user. They are in every age, every job, every social status. As someone said on that other thread, "pretty people do drugs, too."

I want to reiterate, I am not arguing the fact that Aj did or did not use drugs. I am just trying to dispel the myth that because someone is in college or because someone is an athlete or because someone looks a certain way that drugs are not a possibility. I worked in mental health (and therefore with addictions) for 16 years. You would be surprised at the very successful, well liked, pretty people that it touches.

I agree with all of the above. But I do wonder about college athletes, on full scholarships---aren't they routinely drug tested? Would she be a heroin user and not be discovered by the coaches?

 

[mpnola]

The meaning is the same, BUT "poisoning" has a more sinister connotation than "overdose."
There's a reason the ME called it a poisoning instead of an overdose.
IMO

I'm not sure if you saw Arkansasmimi's post #51, but it seems that was the verbage they used because that is one of the categories available. There is no "overdose" category.

From her post:
From the Virginia Department of Health Office of Chief Medical Examiner http://www.vdh.state.va.us/medExam/documents/fam.pdf

What do “cause and manner of
death” mean?
The cause of death is the medical disease,
injury, or poison (alcohol, drug, or toxic substance)

 

[mpnola]

I agree with all of the above. But I do wonder about college athletes, on full scholarships---aren't they routinely drug tested? Would she be a heroin user and not be discovered by the coaches?

Not if it was only for a couple of weeks. She likely was prescribed pain medication for an injured knee, which would show up but be expected.

 

[Aynia]

The meaning is the same, BUT "poisoning" has a more sinister connotation than "overdose."
There's a reason the ME called it a poisoning instead of an overdose.
IMO

I think that too, and yes I know it has been explained as the medical term but I'm thinking, the quantity of heroin in her system is important too. If it is much more than what would cause one to overdose, that would be very suspicious. MOO

sent from my mobile using tapatalk

 

[courtneyb]

I agree with all of the above. But I do wonder about college athletes, on full scholarships---aren't they routinely drug tested? Would she be a heroin user and not be discovered by the coaches?

If it was a recent development, and if she had used heroin, I believe it would have had to been a recent development, she may not have been tested in a couple weeks.

 

[courtneyb]

I think that too, and yes I know it has been explained as the medical term but I'm thinking, the quantity of heroin in her system is important too. If it is much more than what would cause one to overdose, that would be very suspicious. MOO

sent from my mobile using tapatalk

Anyone who dies from having enough heroin in their body to cause death, suffers from heroin "poisoning". The levels in the body were high enough to cause an "acute poisoning event".

It very well may still be a murder, but LE isn't giving the public "clues" by using the term "poisoning". They are simply using the correct medical terms.

 

[ilovepierre]

Right.
If the amount of heroin in her body is more than what you would expect for a heroin OD, then it's probably a safe bet, the heroin was not taken by AJ and was given to her as a means to kill her.
IMO

 

[KristiA]

Am I able to quote a post from another thread? I hope so, because it is relevant to our discussion:

From http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ia-42-Maricopa-22-June-2015-3-*ARREST*/page22

Post #325 from Luvrosco
I'm so sorry you had to go through that. One of my neighbor's died recently. It was a heroin overdose. He was in his 3rd year at Harvard. The family had no idea he was using. So sad. His mom is a shell of herself now.

This. Its like when we tell our kids that bad guys dont wear big black trench coats and have snaggle teeth. they look like regular people, they have regular jobs, they are friendly. There is no "look" of a bad guy. There is no "look" of a drug user. They are in every age, every job, every social status. As someone said on that other thread, "pretty people do drugs, too."

I want to reiterate, I am not arguing the fact that Aj did or did not use drugs. I am just trying to dispel the myth that because someone is in college or because someone is an athlete or because someone looks a certain way that drugs are not a possibility. I worked in mental health (and therefore with addictions) for 16 years. You would be surprised at the very successful, well liked, pretty people that it touches.

I agree, mpnola. If you watch that show Intervention, you will learn that addiction consumes many scholars and athletes. Loved ones are always surprised because their friend or family member had a bright future ahead of them. Addiction is not selective. It can only take one bad choice to lay the groundwork for a path to addiction.

I am not going to begin to speculate whether or not AJ had a heroin addiction. That's for the ME to determine. I would be naive to think that it's not a possibility though.

JMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[hey-Debbie]

I agree with all of the above. But I do wonder about college athletes, on full scholarships---aren't they routinely drug tested? Would she be a heroin user and not be discovered by the coaches?

I think she only played club ball for the school not on the actual softball team. Maybe the club isn't mandatory testing and only test based on a person suspected to be using drugs. Does anyone know if practice was just starting?

 

[Aynia]

Anyone who dies from having enough heroin in their body to cause death, suffers from heroin "poisoning". The levels in the body were high enough to cause an "acute poisoning event".

It very well may still be a murder, but LE isn't giving the public "clues" by using the term "poisoning". They are simply using the correct medical terms.

I wasn't implying that it was a clue, I understand it's the medical term . I guess I'm just too familiar with Kurt Cobain "suicide " where the drug quantity in his system was discussed non stop.
What I meant to say was, imagine someone has 3x the amount that would cause an overdose. To me that would sound suspicious but as I said it's just MOO

sent from my mobile using tapatalk

 

[courtneyb]

Right.
If the amount of heroin in her body is more than what you would expect for a heroin OD, then it's probably a safe bet, the heroin was not taken by AJ and was given to her as a means to kill her.
IMO

If they are able to determine the route of administration, that will narrow down the possibilities. If snorted or smoked, it is likely self administered. If ingested or injected, it could be either self administered or forced administration.

Though, we should take into account that heroin baggies don't come with the dosage/strength printed on the outside. A person, especially one not experienced with drug usage, never really knows how strong the heroin they have is until it has been taken and is at maximum peaked blood levels in the body. By this point, it is too late to go back, unless you had access to Narcan to reverse the effects.

Which, by the way, Narcan is about to become available by prescription for this very reason. Heroin is such a growing epidemic that the FDA is making it available for users of opiates and heroin to keep on hand to reverse the effects in the case of an overdose. That should indicate how big of a problem it has become.

 

[hey-Debbie]

If they are able to determine the route of administration, that will narrow down the possibilities. If snorted or smoked, it is likely self administered. If ingested or injected, it could be either self administered or forced administration.

Though, we should take into account that heroin baggies don't come with the dosage/strength printed on the outside. A person, especially one not experienced with drug usage, never really knows how strong the heroin they have is until it has been taken and is at maximum peaked blood levels in the body. By this point, it is too late to go back, unless you had access to Narcan to reverse the effects.

Which, by the way, Narcan is about to become available by prescription for this very reason. Heroin is such a growing epidemic that the FDA is making it available for users of opiates and heroin to keep on hand to reverse the effects in the case of an overdose. That should indicate how big of a problem it has become.

I was thinking the same thing. How would someone inexperienced with the drug know enough is enough especially if she was with other inexperienced users and once someone has drugs or alcohol in their system their judgement can be severely impaired and may not make the best judgement as to when they should stop. It's probably like when someone gets alcohol poisoning. They just keep drinking when clearly they have already had enough but sometimes when having too much fun, playing drinking games with friends, etc. judgement goes out the window.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Sometimes I'm really glad I missed all the stuff that gets a thread closed for clean up All that rumor & stuff can seriously derail the case discussion. So, thank you to the mods for keeping stuff on track and yanking us all back in line when we go all SM-airheaded.

That said, I don't know enough about heroin to voice an opinion one way or the other about whether AJ became addicted in two weeks or not. My personal opinion is that it is a load of horse snot and not only was she not addicted, she wasn't even using. I think, IF those texts from her phone claiming it (that she'd been using for the last 2 weeks prior to her going missing) actually existed (and LE knows by now if they ever existed or not) whoever sent them was setting the stage for whenever her body would eventually be found completely jacked up with a lethal amount of heroin.

I think, whoever sent the texts from her phone is either the very same person that gave it to her, or knows the person who gave it to her, and knew it was going to kill her when they did it. So, who in AJ's direct circle of people has a history with heroin or easy access to those who have a direct connection? Is it Wes? Is it someone else hoping the world will think it was Wes?

I sure don't envy LE working this case right now, I can tell you that.

 

[Happyshoes]

I agree that someone gave it to her but I don't think they did it knowing she would die. So it was someone who knew Jen's cell #?

 

[ilovepierre]

If they are able to determine the route of administration, that will narrow down the possibilities. If snorted or smoked, it is likely self administered. If ingested or injected, it could be either self administered or forced administration.

Though, we should take into account that heroin baggies don't come with the dosage/strength printed on the outside. A person, especially one not experienced with drug usage, never really knows how strong the heroin they have is until it has been taken and is at maximum peaked blood levels in the body. By this point, it is too late to go back, unless you had access to Narcan to reverse the effects.

Which, by the way, Narcan is about to become available by prescription for this very reason. Heroin is such a growing epidemic that the FDA is making it available for users of opiates and heroin to keep on hand to reverse the effects in the case of an overdose. That should indicate how big of a problem it has become.

Hopefully, it will be determined how the heroin entered AJ's body.
That would help us to figure out whether the OD was intentional or accidental.

Right now, I am on the side of the fence that believes the heroin was given to AJ by someone other than herself.
AJ doesn't seem like someone who would use drugs. That certainly doesn't mean anything though. My dad was a cocaine addict for about half a year or so and no suspected a thing. He hid it THAT well. The only reason I found out was because my dad called me (while I was on vacation), and said he was checking himself into rehab

 

[ilovepierre]

Sometimes I'm really glad I missed all the stuff that gets a thread closed for clean up All that rumor & stuff can seriously derail the case discussion. So, thank you to the mods for keeping stuff on track and yanking us all back in line when we go all SM-airheaded.

That said, I don't know enough about heroin to voice an opinion one way or the other about whether AJ became addicted in two weeks or not. My personal opinion is that it is a load of horse snot and not only was she not addicted, she wasn't even using. I think, IF those texts from her phone claiming it (that she'd been using for the last 2 weeks prior to her going missing) actually existed (and LE knows by now if they ever existed or not) whoever sent them was setting the stage for whenever her body would eventually be found completely jacked up with a lethal amount of heroin.

I think, whoever sent the texts from her phone is either the very same person that gave it to her, or knows the person who gave it to her, and knew it was going to kill her when they did it. So, who in AJ's direct circle of people has a history with heroin or easy access to those who have a direct connection? Is it Wes? Is it someone else hoping the world will think it was Wes?

I sure don't envy LE working this case right now, I can tell you that.

I don't believe she was using, either.
But this is JMO.

Although as I stated in my above post, a person can hide an addiction if they really want to.