Anthony's Finally Doubt Casey's Innocence?

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Actually, lin, I had seen it, but I watched it again. It doesn't change the compassion that I feel for the grandparents, however. The fact that their obliviousness (is that a word?) about their daughter's behavior may have contributed to Caylee's demise must cause them a great deal of guilt and anguish. While I believe that they were fundamentally good grandparents, there were glaring omissions they should have seen but didn't. Now they have to live the rest of their lives with the knowledge that they could have saved Caylee by asking the right questions and getting custody, and they didn't. I can't even begin to imagine that kind of enduring psychic pain. I think that the denial stems from this. Once they accept that KC murdered their granddaughter, they have to own their role in it. It must be a terrible burden, and I personally don't know how they have not crackecd before now. I'm almost positive that I would have. I think that the day will come when they are forced to accept it, however.

Denial is a powerful coping mechanism. It's what gets people through terrible traumas that they couldn't otherwise endure. I've seen it in hospice patients (and their relatives) whose minds can't accept their impending death, so in order to function, they choose not to acknowledge their own mortality. As this is the death of their granddaughter, and the death of the lives they formerly lived, as nothing will ever be the same in that family ever again, I think the same coping mechanisms are in place. I am not excusing anything they did to mislead investigators. I simply feel that this is too much psychic trauma for them to accept. It will come with time.

Brilliant post, thank you....

Also, psychologist Dr. Bethany Marshall (sometimes on Nancy Grace) stated that she believes Cindy is in a deep, deep psychological state of denial psychologists call "undoing." Dr. Marshall stated that she believes that upon calling the police and Cindy's initial true reaction that there was a dead body in the damn car...there was so much initial psychological trauma associated with that truth that Cindy almost immidiately went into this state of "undoing."

This has always made enormous sense to me and goes along with George's statement to LE asking them to give him a heads up if it does turn out that Casey killed Caylee so that he could prepare Cindy. He told them it would kill her.
 
That is more realization and pain for anyone to instantly endure-Instant Karma for all involved-
I'd be very careful spiritually, if you are involved in this case in any capacity- notice how ANYONE whose name is mentioned in connection to this case gets some "damn smell" to their life?
 
Actually, lin, I had seen it, but I watched it again. It doesn't change the compassion that I feel for the grandparents, however. The fact that their obliviousness (is that a word?) about their daughter's behavior may have contributed to Caylee's demise must cause them a great deal of guilt and anguish. While I believe that they were fundamentally good grandparents, there were glaring omissions they should have seen but didn't. Now they have to live the rest of their lives with the knowledge that they could have saved Caylee by asking the right questions and getting custody, and they didn't. I can't even begin to imagine that kind of enduring psychic pain. I think that the denial stems from this. Once they accept that KC murdered their granddaughter, they have to own their role in it. It must be a terrible burden, and I personally don't know how they have not crackecd before now. I'm almost positive that I would have. I think that the day will come when they are forced to accept it, however.

Denial is a powerful coping mechanism. It's what gets people through terrible traumas that they couldn't otherwise endure. I've seen it in hospice patients (and their relatives) whose minds can't accept their impending death, so in order to function, they choose not to acknowledge their own mortality. As this is the death of their granddaughter, and the death of the lives they formerly lived, as nothing will ever be the same in that family ever again, I think the same coping mechanisms are in place. I am not excusing anything they did to mislead investigators. I simply feel that this is too much psychic trauma for them to accept. It will come with time.

Glad you didn't miss the video. I watched all 4 parts again last night.

A close family member is in hospice right now and as you describe, is not accepting the diagnosis, continuing to believe in imminent recovery. However, this family member of mine does not make up an alternate reality, lie, distort or blame an alternate cause for the symptoms.

As I previously posted, it's the lies and what they knew when that took me out of the grieving/denial camp. I can fully understand anyone not wanting to accept their child is guilty of any crime, much less murder, much much less of their own 2 year old baby. The disconnect for me are the lies. Even SP's mother, who still believes in his innocence and could be in a state of denial to this day, iirc, didn't make a media tour of totally inconsistent stories, half-truths and 'mis-truths.' (As in totally missed the truth by a country mile.)

I used to believe as you do and wish I still could. Refusing to look at evidence or draw logical inferences is denial. Totally making things up is lying and inconsistent with denial, imo, so I'll agree to disagree with you on this. I'm sure we agree more than we disagree. :)
 
at first when I saw the ca police tapes I thought wow cindy went through the last 31 days and could recall every lie her daughter said, then i thought you casey was hiding from her parents why would she even take the time to talk to them call them, whatever
especially after that fathers day fight, I dont know id casey came up with all of that but
you know when the police detective looked at CA and said this person doesnt exist this child doesnt exist, this person never worked at so and so, She had a look on her face like gee I never thought the police would have checked out what I said.
I dont know If anyone could ever believe there child killed there own child and did all of this, even if the evidence links there house to the crimescene, Im not sure if I could still breathe, a part of me wants to think the anthonys thought she was a liar and a thief but never thought she could harm that baby, they probably look back and see so many clues of things that wernt right but how do you breathe/survive when you cant change the clock, I dont believe they ever thought she was drugging that baby, so she could party they just thought she lied about her work so she took caylee with her everyday
they never thought the child was locked/drugged in the trunk (at the nannys) and now I bet they dream of her in the trunk, i would not want to be in there shoes.

I think KC did tell her all those lies she didn't want Cindy hunting her down so she fed her lies,and Cindy played those lies in her head over and over she wanted to believe KC beacuse if she didn't then that meant Caylee could be dead...
 
Can you show me a link to that plea? I for one have never seen it and I have followed this case from day one. Would love to see a heartfelt plea by Cindy or anyone in the family for that matter.

Heartfelt no I never said heartfelt but i did see her plea to the public ..Like I said I am not a Cindy fan but I have empathy for her ..Cindy is a hard around the edges kind of person nothing soft and mushy about Cindy she is who she is...and yes she was a total *advertiser censored* to the LE,Tim MIller, the public ..just imagine one day your just living your normal life the next you find out your granddaughter is missing for 31 days the media is on your lawn your daughter the last person to see your granddaughter has shutdown giving you nothing but lies your trying to make sense of it all .. I want justice for Caylee and for KC to rotten in jail for what she did ..but i still feel for Cindy..
 
http://www.foxnews.com/geraldo/


Well, maybe we will find out more as Geraldo sits down with Cindy in an exclusive interview this weekend.

Plus, Geraldo sits down Casey's mom Cindy Anthony
in an EXCLUSIVE interview

Wow!

I doubt she will publicly state she thinks Casey is guilty (even though they all know she is now).

I think the A's attitude publicly will be more along the lines of We are concerned for Casey and we still love her from now on...

That's pretty much what BC said at the hearing yesterday.

This is what I'm hoping (as opposed to them still saying they think Casey is innocent). I also predict she will thank everyone for their prayers and let us know that George is getting better.
 
I agree these are not cases on point. Cases on point, however, generally aren't so high profile that many would recognize their names. Another difference is that in the named cases, there wasn't a history of lying, stealing, etc., to the best of my knowledge. With the Yates case, yes, the family was aware of her mental health issues, but in this case, Cindy herself described Casey as a psychopath. Cindy herself threatened to take custody from this, "mother of the year." Cindy herself sought psychological help in dealing with Casey.

You suggest there were changes in Casey that occurred subtly over a period of time that were hard to perceive by those closest to her. My understanding of the situation is the exact opposite. Per Lee, Cindy's first words upon seeing Casey crying were, 'What have you done!?!' This is not someone in the dark about who and what her daughter is. Almost all closest to her described Casey as a liar and a thief. JG went so far as to say she was a 'diabolical liar.' Even if this wasn't the case, what to do when confronted by LE with all the lies? There is no nanny; there is no job; there was no trip to Jacksonville; and on and on and on. What then? Blithely continue on as if one never heard it?

Also about living under the same roof, that's something that cuts the other way pretty hard too --- Caylee wasn't under that roof for a month. Wouldn't that constitute something pretty dramatic that even the most nonattentive would notice? Cindy seemed to notice it pretty well in her myspace post.

Back to my point, which was that in most instances, these cases rarely make national news. How many times have we all heard on our local news about a parent or stepparent being accused in the death of child but never saw the actions from those families that we've seen in this case? Didn't the Smith case start out as a "missing" case? Haven't there been lots of others over the years? IMO, the grandparents' media mystery tour fanned the flames on this one, while at the same time, other families chose to accept the obvious, deal with their pain privately and let the system take its course. I'll venture a guess that in most of those cases, especially when the child lived under the same roof, 31 days didn't go by without reporting the disappearance.

I've been harping on it all night but I'll mention it again: The persistent lying of the grandparents that was so pernicious on the part of Cindy that LE asked her to stop because it was hurting the investigation; that was so transparent that George apologized to LE and said something to the effect of he'd tried to put his hand over her mouth. Riddle me that one, Batman. It makes no sense. But for the actions of the grandparents, I think this case would have remained a local case, a blip on local news and forgotten. There would not likely be a dream team or private attorney. Instead, as in other cases, there would more likely have been a public defender and a plea within a few weeks, imo. But no, we now have what I believe is an orchestrated media extravaganza, with the grands playing their part at a great cost to the taxpayers and it appears, potentially an even greater cost to George. And to what end? I have to agree with Turbothink's sig line about Cindy spitting on Caylee's grave.

Something else for which I'll never forgive them, while they were out there trying to act as ringmasters for this circus, numerous other children were legitimately lost/kidnapped and have not yet been found. IMO, they personally are responsible for not only the backlash they received, but consequences that will paid by others because of their behavior. The families of other victims will many times be treated with more skepticism and less willingness to help because of these two people, at least by me and several others with whom I'm acquainted.

A lot of good points here. The only thing I question is whether Casey would have plead out. I'm not sure she would ever admit any guilt in this.
 
If I get to see her on the GR show tonight I am not expecting anything different than what has already been shown...get ready everybody....don't expect anything new:mad:
 
I think it was the heart sticker on the duct tape that broke them. Besides being a horrifying detail, they may very well have seen heart stickers in the home.

Yes, I agree.

Tonight, BC was on the final segment of Larry King and here's part of the conversation that I felt was very telling:

LK: George is such a sensitive guy. Do you fear he might try to hurt himself again?

BC: I don't think so Larry. He realizes now that Caylee's voice goes on with him and with Cindy and with Lee and I don't think he wants to give that up.


He deliberately omits and with Casey. (Also, after the recent hearing, when asked how the Anthony's feel about Casey, BC stated: They love their daughter and are concerned for her.)


Then later on Larry King...


LK: Brad, are they still holding out for their daughter's innocence?

BC: Larry, they support their daughter 100% and they love her and that's never gonna change. In terms of the case? It's hard to comment on that because of the evidence because there's so much evidence that has yet to come out in the case.

I specifically remember Mark Hacking's family stating they still loved Mark, Susan Smith's family still loved Susan and pleaded for her life...this is natural.

They love her (because you can't just turn that off) and the never gonna change implies to me no matter what she's done. They are concerned for her (concerned for her soul, concerned for what may happen to her behind bars)...BUT, Caylee's voice will go on through George, Cindy, and Lee (no Casey).

To me, this is a sensitive and appropriate public response.

Privately, they 100% know Casey is guilty but they don't want to say that directly because they may hope she is spared the death penalty. Like I said, you can't just tunr that off. Privately, their hearts are broken. Privately, they may never forgive her but they will always love her.
 
"its not in her best interest to show what she knows about where caylee is"

HELLO, hes acting as if caylee is still alive somewhere
its not in her best interest to tell the prosecutor she killed her and left her in a tbag

He said this same thing before the body was discovered. It made me wonder how could a mother think it was not in HER best interest to tell where Caylee was, given that she supposedly knew her daughter was alive. A mother who puts "her case" before the interests and life of her live child? Come on.... even then, we knew JB knew she was dead. (I just wish this nightmare was over and one person, just one person would tell the truth)
 
Wow!

I doubt she will publicly state she thinks Casey is guilty (even though they all know she is now).

I think the A's attitude publicly will be more along the lines of We are concerned for Casey and we still love her from now on...

That's pretty much what BC said at the hearing yesterday.

This is what I'm hoping (as opposed to them still saying they think Casey is innocent). I also predict she will thank everyone for their prayers and let us know that George is getting better.

Exactly, I could not have said it better.
 
Yes, I agree.

Tonight, BC was on the final segment of Larry King and here's part of the conversation that I felt was very telling:

LK: George is such a sensitive guy. Do you fear he might try to hurt himself again?

BC: I don't think so Larry. He realizes now that Caylee's voice goes on with him and with Cindy and with Lee and I don't think he wasnt to give that up.


He deliberately omits and with Casey. (Also, after the recent hearing, when asked how the Anthony's feel about Casey, BC stated: They love their daughter and are concerned for her.)


Then later on Larry King...


LK: Brad, are they still holding out for their daughter's innocence?

BC: Larry, they support their daughter 100% and they love her and that's never gonna change. In terms of the case? It's hard to comment on that because of the evidence because there's so much evidence that has yet to come out in the case.

I specifically remember Mark Hacking's family stating they still loved Mark, Susan Smith's family still loved Susan and pleaded for her life...this is natural.

They love her (because you can't just turn that off) and the never gonna change implies to me no matter what she's done. They are concerned for her (concerned for her soul, concerned for what may happen to her behind bars)...BUT, Caylee's voice will go on through George, Cindy, and Lee (no Casey).

To me, this is a sensitive and appropriate public response.

Privately, they 100% know Casey is guilty but they don't want to say that directly because they may hope she is spared the death penalty. Like I said, you can't just tunr that off. Privately, their hearts are broken. Privately, they may never forgive her but they will always love her.


This I can understand. Unfortunately, I'm skeptical. BC said all of this last night. Depos are scheduled for the end of this month. If they go with the flow, participate in the depos- and answer ALL of the questions without invoking 5th amendment privilege, my skepticism might wane a bit.

They have to decide that they are Caylee's advocates now- and as painful as it might be, they have to cooperate in bringing justice to her murderer.

If they continue to fight the prosecution at every juncture, they have little chance of saving Casey's life if the DP is put back on the table.

However, if they work with them, perhaps the SA would cooperate with their wishes. And the public might also lean more sympathetic.
 
This I can understand. Unfortunately, I'm skeptical. BC said all of this last night. Depos are scheduled for the end of this month. If they go with the flow, participate in the depos- and answer ALL of the questions without invoking 5th amendment privilege, my skepticism might wane a bit.

They have to decide that they are Caylee's advocates now- and as painful as it might be, they have to cooperate in bringing justice to her murderer.

If they continue to fight the prosecution at every juncture, they have little chance of saving Casey's life if the DP is put back on the table.

However, if they work with them, perhaps the SA would cooperate with their wishes. And the public might also lean more sympathetic.


Right.

I personally am giving them the benefit of the doubt that they will fully cooperate with LE now that they have proof that Casey did it and there is no hope left that Caylee is alive. Not only will they coopperate fully, but I predict LE will all be at Caylee's memorial next week and Tim Miller too.

But I must say that I can see them taking the fifth in the ZG depositions only in the interest of sparing Casey the DP in the future.

I mean, the public is following this case intently and the family coming out publicly that they believe she's guilty (as opposed to just saying the love her and are concerned for her) could further the possibility of a death sentence.

I mean, I can see a juror thinking during the penalty phase, "If Casey's own family thinks she deliberately killed Caylee, why shouldn't we give her the DP?

They have to be careful what they say publicly...but that doesn't mean they aren't cooperating fully and want justice for Caylee. I am sure they know that Casey does belong in jail for the rest of her life. They still love her though and hope her life is spared.

This is what I am hoping and giving them the benefit of the doubt for.
 
I think this is the cause for George's issues lately. Having to face this kind of reality has got to be almost impossible.

YES.

Remember how we said that KC's faking having a job was harder work than really working?

Same thing. Fighting to maintian an illusion is often harder work than accepting and dealing. Most people finally give up the fight and go through the pain.

They'll both need a lot of professional help.
 
This is off the top of my head, so I'll ask: Are there video surveillance cameras at the Amscot where Cayce left her car? That would be telling. Then again, I am sure the LE have checked for cameras everywhere they can. It will be interesting to see what shows up.
 
Simply put - SECRETS KILL......you are as sick as your secrets......
 

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