April 15th wknd of Sleuthing

[Just the Fax]

That is because the state has bored them to tears with week after week of no evidence, until one piece finally appeared - the Fielding Drive search. They could have easily accomplished what they needed to in 2 weeks. I'm very curious why they brought up so much information that proved absolutely nothing. But they must have felt they needed it. I'm anxious now to hear from the defense and I'm sure the jury is too.

I agree, their 'domestic discord' case was way too long.

 

[sunshine05]

Howard Kurtz is hard to take at any time. He is just not a likable character.
But now they will likely view him in an even more negative light.
A typical defense attorney that will do anything to get his guilty client off.

Everyone is different. I think it's easier to listen to Kurtz than Cummings. I'm sure some on the jury were sick of listening to the endless, meaningless questions posed by Cummings.

 

[Just the Fax]

Everyone is different. I think it's easier to listen to Kurtz than Cummings. I'm sure some on the jury were sick of listening to the endless, meaningless questions posed by Cummings.

I don't like Howard's style either.
I do like Boz and Amy, though.

 

[jumpstreet]

That is because the state has bored them to tears with week after week of no evidence, until one piece finally appeared - the Fielding Drive search. They could have easily accomplished what they needed to in 2 weeks. I'm very curious why they brought up so much information that proved absolutely nothing. But they must have felt they needed it. I'm anxious now to hear from the defense and I'm sure the jury is too.

Perhaps an element of the State's strategy is to hand the jury over to the defense after they are fairly mentally and emotionally fatigued...
Their tolerance and receptiveness to anything that doesn't seem to have a punch/point will likely be much more limited than in the earlier days/weeks of the trial...

 

[LyndyLoo]

All of the above assumes that he killed her inside the house, which there is also no evidence of. Maybe he killed her in the garage. Or, maybe she did go running and he chased her down and killed her somewhere away from the house. That would explain how he did some a miraculous job of cleaning up the house. There was nothing to clean up.

The kids were drugged and/or blocked in their room by the TV in the door. If he was the type of person to plan to kill and ultimately kill his wife, I kind of doubt that he would have worried a lot about his kids being home alone.

I guess you are fogetting about his NEED to clean the Hardwood Flooring then in the foyer??..That is no easy task..and not to mention those pesky items missing..Ducks and sticks..But never mind..avoiding the evidence isnt unusual by some :waitasec:..Remember Brad went into long detail of washing floors with vinigar and water.. the Garage NOT required for that "Duty" IMO that (cleaning)was done after the fact ..then of course HE could have done that after kids went to sleep and BEFORE Nancy came home and met her at front door...WOW nice home welcome :banghead:..

Dont know for sure..BUT I think he planned this, Met Nancy at front foyer, struggle/argument and mess occurred ( thus necessity to wash floor) ..Who knows just what goes on in a persons mind when they commit murder unless and of course you yourself of done so..WHICH I DOUBT!! anyone here has..:seeya:..The fact is Murder TOD of prior to 7AM has NOT been ruled out!! More than likely given the rest of th evidence?? That is what the Jury will decide I think :fence: They are the "Deciders" afterall...

 

[johnfear]

Howard Kurtz is hard to take at any time. He is just not a likable character.
But now they will likely view him in an even more negative light.
A typical defense attorney that will do anything to get his guilty client off.

I think (despite the other opinions I have seen) that the only mistake Gessner has made with regards to most of this is with Kurtz. He started in on him day 3 and has made it pretty clear that he is biased against him. (Hence Trenkle's involvement)

The first time he was attempting to illicit information re: Pearson from Dismukes I thought Gessner was going to punch him. It was inappropriate by both parties and has set the tone for some odd calls later on.

 

[Danielle59]

I respectfully disagree here..as MFT was turned over..but their expert could not duplicate it with their examination of the hard drive..and have no idea on how to duplicate how FBI got their MFT printout...The actual info was there but NOT enough info for reversed investigations for their expert...So I guess it comes down to agree to disagree....However JUST HOW> FBI got their findings is guarded..

BTW How would they even know their MFT was different from the FBI's anyway unless they had FBI's MFT??..All Defense know is they couldnt replicate same MFT..:banghead:

The defense was fine with not having the tool or process, they jsut wanted the output so they could prepare their cross examination. They even offered to view it in the Judge's chambers. If the state is going to say they have evidence against you but you have no right to see it that is no different than the USSR and/or any of the oppressive regimes that the USA has fought against. We can't just accept the state's word on something or we give up freedom's which so many of our fine young men and women have died to keep for us.

 

[gracielee]

You are just too much!! Thanks for the :giggle: !

And ooohh, Charleston!!

T'would appear Jmflu found 'the real killer'. :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[CrimeAddict]

Would indeed be fascinating of Google could determine definitively (and testify) as to what and when was searched. [ Be it on the 11th, or after the 14th... ]. Would be fascinating on a couple of levels actually...

That would be great if they could get someone from google, I totally agree. But, my guess is they don't have to, they had an FBI agent testify, didn't they?
Does that not count?

 

[johnfear]

The defense was fine with not having the tool or process, they jsut wanted the output so they could prepare their cross examination. They even offered to view it in the Judge's chambers. If the state is going to say they have evidence against you but you have no right to see it that is no different than the USSR and/or any of the oppressive regimes that the USA has fought against. We can't just accept the state's word on something or we give up freedom's which so many of our fine young men and women have died to keep for us.

The "in camera" offering with just the experts and counsel should have been allowed a long time ago. I think this is one of two things that will keep this case forever in appeals.

 

[Just the Fax]

I think (despite the other opinions I have seen) that the only mistake Gessner has made with regards to most of this is with Kurtz. He started in on him day 3 and has made it pretty clear that he is biased against him. (Hence Trenkle's involvement)

The first time he was attempting to illicit information re: Pearson from Dismukes I thought Gessner was going to punch him. It was inappropriate by both parties and has set the tone for some odd calls later on.

Yes, it is very obvious Gessner has a fairly strong distaste for Kurtz.
He's human too.

 

[SleuthSayer]

I guess you are fogetting about his NEED to clean the Hardwood Flooring then in the foyer??..

And we choose to believe that this is the one thing that he is being honest about because....?

 

[Danielle59]

Yes, Fielding Drive is east of the 27518 area ZIP code. On the same Google map, Timber Drive in Garner, NC is shown -- it has a 27529 ZIP. Further, if you look to the left (west) Jenks Road, Apex is shown -- that's ZIP 27523. Who knows why?

That's just what it shows when you google it. I have no idea why, but that's just what it shows. HTH.

Exactly, but Det. Chappell said when you did a search on 27518 that Fielding Dr. was the geographical center of that search, which isn't true. Then they tried to say the zip code boundaries expanded and that was why it wasn't the geographical center anymore. None of that is true since Fielding Dr was never in zip 27518 to be the center of a search on it.

 

[johnfear]

Yes, it is very obvious Gessner has a fairly strong distaste for Kurtz.
He's human too.

LMAO! I think that's been forgotten by some folks. Gessner has to be like "What the hell did DS do to me with this one?"

 

[jumpstreet]

That would be great if they could get someone from google, I totally agree. But, my guess is they don't have to, they had an FBI agent testify, didn't they?
Does that not count?

Yeah, I was just thinking the agent testified about what he found on the laptop side, but I don't think he testified as to any evidence on the server (google system) side. I'm not even sure if google keeps records that could be definitively tied to an end user/searcher conclusively. [ in theory, no, but this is what I meant by how it would be fascinating, if they could somehow corroborate (or refute) the FBI agent's testimony ]

In theory, the FBI agent's testimony alone is significant (and maybe even sufficient), but the elements contributing to 'rd' surrounding it (that the defense will no doubt emphasize) are the timestamp question-marks (on at least some computers), and (in appeal), the general issue about Brady violations.

 

[johnfear]

That would be great if they could get someone from google, I totally agree. But, my guess is they don't have to, they had an FBI agent testify, didn't they?
Does that not count?

CC was a Durham Police Officer, btw, not FBI. He was assigned to a Cyber Task Force.

He made some statements that seemed based on some grand assumptions re the google searches and YES, it would be nice for Google to have backed it up with an expert to explain the inability to do the search today and to verify the old search. It would have made that an extremely solid piece of evidence.

 

[Just the Fax]

Exactly, but Det. Chappell said when you did a search on 27518 that Fielding Dr. was the geographical center of that search, which isn't true. Then they tried to say the zip code boundaries expanded and that was why it wasn't the geographical center anymore. None of that is true since Fielding Dr was never in zip 27518 to be the center of a search on it.

When I want to get a 5 mile radius on google maps, I simply type the zip code. Did you forget he panned over and zoomed in on the area off Fielding Drive?

 

[Cheyenne130]

The defense was fine with not having the tool or process, they jsut wanted the output so they could prepare their cross examination. They even offered to view it in the Judge's chambers. If the state is going to say they have evidence against you but you have no right to see it that is no different than the USSR and/or any of the oppressive regimes that the USA has fought against. We can't just accept the state's word on something or we give up freedom's which so many of our fine young men and women have died to keep for us.

They have the copy of the hard drive itself. If the file doesn't exist on that hard drive, they should be able to prove it with their own expert. MOO

 

[Danielle59]

This whole issue was thrashed out in a pre-trial hearing and an FBI affidavit was submitted to the court on exactly what was NOT allowed to be entered into evidence.. NO... Defense confusions were attempting to make the judge over-rule on his initial judgement...ALL pros. did was to point out that ruling and why the judge came to that judgement..He also told the judge he had turned over ALL information allowable under that ruling..So Kurtz lost in his HailMary attempt to get that initial ruling overturned..Didnt work IMO

BTW..It isnt the report Kurtz is so worried about as he got it in full view of what it shows...(Brad's search of Dump Site prior to murder)..BUT his ability to have his expert try and denounce their findings...thats the problem...and its the Tool or Browsing Program that isnt allowable to their expert..Too bad Sooo Sad!

We will have to agree to disagree on this one because many of us heard completely differently than you seem to have heard. It is really not "too bad so sad" either, when someone's life, life as they knew it, or livelihood is on the line, this is a travesty because in the USA we have a right to see and examine evidence against us according to the 6th Amendment in our Bill of Rights, it is one of our hard fought freedoms and written into our Constitution, maybe it is different in Canada. We still celebrate breaking away from England on the 4th of July, gaining our independence, and allowing individual unalienable rights.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

 

[johnfear]

They have the copy of the hard drive itself. If the file doesn't exist on that hard drive, they should be able to prove it with their own expert. MOO

They should have been working from the same report or had access to the same report to compare notes.

Zellinger got lucky here in the fact that the judge had no clue what the hell he was talking about and Kurtz used a TERRIBLE analogy of what it was.

This really was a mis-step on everybody's part. Give me ten other pieces of evidence and some real time-line and place him at the scene. I wouldn't need it.

But, give me one detective who says he was angry and he snapped, one prosecutor who says he planned this for months and I will give you a guy who is potentially going to get away with murder over an inexperienced prosecutor (at least in this type of homicide) who has potentially given leigh way for either a defense witness to torpedo his smoking gun or to make his life hell in appeals. Either way, it doesn't play well for future rulings.