Are the Ramseys involved or not?

[Sophie]

The deposits with matching DNA are on each side of the waistband of the longjohns, and mixed with blood in her underwear. Thats probably why ML characterized it as highly unlikely the DNA was deposited in these places innocently. There are several news reports to this effect, and the new DA's office hasn't really discounted the DNA findings.

Its really a show-stopper for RDI because the foreign male DNA can't be attributed to a factory worker like it was before, because it was found on more than one article of clothing JBR was wearing at the time she was murdered, AND it was found in criminally conspicuous places.

HOTYH, I am not very knowledgeable about DNA so I am prefacing this remark with an apologia to the effect that I may be displaying my ignorance. However, pretty recently one of the blokes who invented the barcoding system for DNA (whose name I forget but will remember in due course) was on telly here talking about an entirely unrelated crime. He had grave misgivings about how well law enforcement understood DNA and said that anyone depending on unknown DNA while ignoring other investigative findings was not helping the judicial process.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Brilliant post, SuperDave, thanks. One other thing that tends to eliminate a political faction is the fact that no one claimed 'credit' for the crime afterwards, which terrorist or political organisations almost always do. It was mere hours after 9/11 and the London Tube Bombings that Al-Quaeda claimed credit. Just last week, at least two splinter republican groups claimed credit for the death of soldiers on an IRA base. I'll accept this as statistical rather than evidential but, in all honesty, how many foreign factions with a gripe against the US are also that anxious to remain anonymous?

Lybia had involvement in the downing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. They did not claim responsibility. It was only after investigation that their involvement was uncovered.

North Korea is suspected in airline bombings, never took credit.

Air India had two flights bombed simultaneously, nobody claimed credit.

There have been several bombings targeting US interests abroad with nobody taking credit.

Not taking credit happens all the time.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

OK, when someone says "he will be beheaded," or "he will be immediately executed," you believe that person is an artist, right? That IS what you posted.

C'mon SD, lets get real just for a second. I mean, just for a second. Remember that show 'Whats my line'? Or maybe you're too young. In the context of that show, the contestant says 'he will be beheaded' or 'he will be immediately executed" your guess would be artist, is that right?

Not artist. Actor. Actress, in this case. Someone pretending to be a foreign kidnapper/terrorist. (who BTW would not use the term "fat cat".) PR was trying to play it both ways here. She wanted to sound like a SFF/terrorist, but she also wanted to sound like a disgruntled employee, especially a female southern SFF or employee.

I don't think you're getting it.

The line 'he will be beheaded,' and 'he will be immediately executed' do not belong to an artist or an actress. "Hand me that palette" belongs to artist. "Where is my script" belongs to actress.

 

[TinaD]

I had read this interesting judicial article, a critique on how touch dna should never be used on its own to convict, that in effect, without other evidence, it is inconclusive.

So ..... I'm still wondering what additional evidence there would be to allow ML to draw the conclusion that JR and his family can be exhonerated.

The inside fabric of JBR's long john bottoms must have been tested to exclude the source of dna as being a previous wearer of the clothing.

Maybe just the location ( 3 location) of dna services that conclusion?

And how can PR be wholely eliminated as a participant?

As I've said before, even if the DNA turns out to be connected to the crime, all it actually can prove is that someone unknown redressed JBR. Think about the statement made by one of the BPD or DA guys (I forget who just now but I bet Dave knows). This person made a statement to the effect that : "So what if Patsy wrote the note? It doesn't prove she killed the girl".

Keeping in mind JR's slip about there being a lot of people around at 3.00am, isn't it possible that they had help - someone offered to redress JBR becuae it was too upsetting for the parents?

 

[Sophie]

Lybia had involvement in the downing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. They did not claim responsibility. It was only after investigation that their involvement was uncovered.

North Korea is suspected in airline bombings, never took credit.

Air India had two flights bombed simultaneously, nobody claimed credit.

There have been several bombings targeting US interests abroad with nobody taking credit.

Not taking credit happens all the time.

It was known about Libya the day after it happened - no one needed to claim credit. But you are right that they didn't leap to attribute the credit to themselves.

In all the cases you mention, though, there isn't that much doubt about the terrorists' identity and, outside of Lockerbie, sad to say, they were none of them as high profile as JonBenet. A foreign faction of one might have kept quiet. A foreign faction proper just couldn't have kept its trap shut this long.

 

[Ames]

Ames, I agree. When I first read the note, it reminded me of nothing so much as a spoof ransom note someone wrote when 'kidnapping' my dorm's goldfish at university. In fact, the similarity in tenor between a note relating to a joke and a note relating to a genuine, horrible, tragic, appalling murder sent a chill up my spine. One was written by an amateur 'comedian' who watched way too much telly, the other by an amateur criminal. Just the sort of note someone with some writing skills and a sense of drama would write.

Exactly! You are 100 percent right!!

 

[Ames]

Of all this, HOTYH, anyone describing themselves as 'foreign' is where I think the note falls apart. I mean, you would regard me as a foreigner, but sitting in a living room in Northern England, I don't regard myself as a foreigner...In fact, I lived for two years in France and described myself as 'anglaise' but never 'etrangere.' A very dear friend of mine from Baltimore is visiting me at the moment and I don't think she has ever described herself as foreign. From the US, yes. A foreigner, no. People don't view themselves as being foreign. They view themselves as being in a foreign country. The foreign bit, to me at least, was one of the sillier mistakes made by the writer of the ransom note.

WOW! Keep 'em coming!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

It was known about Libya the day after it happened - no one needed to claim credit. But you are right that they didn't leap to attribute the credit to themselves.

In all the cases you mention, though, there isn't that much doubt about the terrorists' identity and, outside of Lockerbie, sad to say, they were none of them as high profile as JonBenet. A foreign faction of one might have kept quiet. A foreign faction proper just couldn't have kept its trap shut this long.

Uh...wrong? and wrong again?

 

[Ames]

I don't think you're getting it.

The line 'he will be beheaded,' and 'he will be immediately executed' do not belong to an artist or an actress. "Hand me that palette" belongs to artist. "Where is my script" belongs to actress.

IMO...The RN WAS a script.

 

[Ames]

Holdon, what is your opinion of the thumb print looking bruise on JB's right arm, in the picture that I posted...I believe it was on this thread.

Also, why...in YOUR opinion, did Patsy start typing all of her notes to Burke's school, and to his teacher, after JB's death?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

IMO...The RN WAS a script.

Everybody knows the RN was NOT a script.

Scripts have actors' lines on them, with the actors' name at the beginning of each line. There were no actors names, therefore it was no script.

Suppose an actual movie script line read 'he will be beheaded' or 'he will be immediately executed', what ROLE would the actor likely be portraying?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdon, what is your opinion of the thumb print looking bruise on JB's right arm, in the picture that I posted...I believe it was on this thread.

Also, why...in YOUR opinion, did Patsy start typing all of her notes to Burke's school, and to his teacher, after JB's death?

Uh, can you repost it?

 

[Ames]

Uh, can you repost it?

I just went back and copied it from my old post, so I hope that this works...take a look at her right forearm, to the right of where the elbow is bent.

 

[madeleine]

I have only one question for you Holdon and thanks in advance for replying(always wanted to ask an IDI this,never got the chance)

How do you explain this?

"Fibers from the same type of jacket "tied into" the ligature. "

 

[Ames]

Hi Ames.

Wow.

I've been reading the material within CW's suit, and had read that PR had destroyed her handwritten notes, the basis for the R's book. Typed notes to the teacher .... hmmm.

Looks a little bit suspicious to me...notice how Patsy says.."I wasn't aware that they were typed". Mr. Kane says..."That is what Burke's teacher has told us". Patsy is such a liar.

3 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mrs. Ramsey, your
4 son Burke, when he was attending grammar
5 school in Boulder, there was a weekly sort
6 of report that was sent by the teacher to
7 the parents. Do you recall that?
8 A. Vaguely.
9 Q. And you were, as a parent, given
10 the opportunity or asked to provide some
11 input or response to teacher's little report
12 that was sent out once a week. Do you
13 remember doing that? The Friday folder I
14 think is what --
15 A. Oh, Friday folder, yeah, I
16 remember the Friday folder.
17 Q. Okay. Up until the murder of
18 your daughter, your, as a parent, your
19 response in the Friday folder was always
20 handwritten. Following the death of your
21 daughter, your responses were always typed.
22 Can you explain why you changed that?
23 A. I didn't -- I wasn't aware that
24 they were typed.
25 MR. WOOD: Do you have any that
0206
1 you can let her look at?
2 THE WITNESS: Do you have any of
3 those?
4 MR. LEVIN: I don't think we have
5 any in the computer.
6 MR. KANE: Not in the computer.
7 MR. LEVIN: No, no, we don't have
8 those.
9 MR. WOOD: Are you representing
10 that every one afterwards was in fact typed?
11 MR. KANE: That is what Burke's
12 teacher has told us.

 

[Ames]

Holdon...when you post your opinion about the thumb like bruise on JB's arm, while you are at it, could you please post your opinion as to why Patsy would start typing notes to Burke's teacher (in his Friday folder...my daughter has one of those, too), after JB's death? HMMMM..could it be that Patsy didn't want to give the authorities anything else, that they could compare her handwriting, and the RN to? That is what it seems like to me. Why else would she have done that?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdon...when you post your opinion about the thumb like bruise on JB's arm, while you are at it, could you please post your opinion as to why Patsy would start typing notes to Burke's teacher (in his Friday folder...my daughter has one of those, too), after JB's death? HMMMM..could it be that Patsy didn't want to give the authorities anything else, that they could compare her handwriting, and the RN to? That is what it seems like to me. Why else would she have done that?

We both DONT KNOW that PR ever typed notes to Burkes teacher. Thats something you're telling me, and I'm supposed to just take your word for it. We also both DONT KNOW how JBR got that 'thumb like' bruise on her arm. That it was caused by a thumb or a bicycle or playground equipment neither one of us have any idea.

OTOH, we both KNOW FOR A FACT that the RN has the expressions 'will be beheaded' and 'will be immediately executed' on it. There's no ambiguity. Again for the nth time, will anyone please post what they believe to whom those expressions would ordinarily belong? That is, what would be the title of the person who would typically say such things?

Obviously the answer is not artist. It could be actress, but that answer seems to evade the most obvious ones. What are the most obvious ones?

 

[Tadpole12]

Tuesday, March 17, 2009
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2008874557_xgrdnalaws.html

By JILL ZEMAN
Associated Press Writer



LITTLE ROCK, Ark. —
An Arkansas legislative committee endorsed a bill Tuesday that would require police to collect DNA samples following certain felony arrests, after hearing from JonBenet Ramsey's father that the measure will stop criminals.
John Ramsey, who now lives in Little Rock, told the House Judiciary Committee that he became interested in DNA databases after the 1996 slaying in Boulder, Colo., of his 6-year-old daughter, JonBenet.
"I believe with all sincerity that this will be a law in all states, without a doubt. It's progressing rapidly," Ramsey said. "It needs to be sooner rather than later, because we will prevent crime."

 

[Ames]

We both DONT KNOW that PR ever typed notes to Burkes teacher. Thats something you're telling me, and I'm supposed to just take your word for it. We also both DONT KNOW how JBR got that 'thumb like' bruise on her arm. That it was caused by a thumb or a bicycle or playground equipment neither one of us have any idea.

OTOH, we both KNOW FOR A FACT that the RN has the expressions 'will be beheaded' and 'will be immediately executed' on it. There's no ambiguity. Again for the nth time, will anyone please post what they believe to whom those expressions would ordinarily belong? That is, what would be the title of the person who would typically say such things?

Obviously the answer is not artist. It could be actress, but that answer seems to evade the most obvious ones. What are the most obvious ones?

Holdon you must be blind...I posted the INTERVIEW with Patsy that referred to the typed notes. DUHHHHH Here it is again for you...I get a little bit tired of posting and re-posting things for you. Please take the time to actually read it, this time.

3 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mrs. Ramsey, your
4 son Burke, when he was attending grammar
5 school in Boulder, there was a weekly sort
6 of report that was sent by the teacher to
7 the parents. Do you recall that?
8 A. Vaguely.
9 Q. And you were, as a parent, given
10 the opportunity or asked to provide some
11 input or response to teacher's little report
12 that was sent out once a week. Do you
13 remember doing that? The Friday folder I
14 think is what --
15 A. Oh, Friday folder, yeah, I
16 remember the Friday folder.
17 Q. Okay. Up until the murder of
18 your daughter, your, as a parent, your
19 response in the Friday folder was always
20 handwritten. Following the death of your
21 daughter, your responses were always typed.
22 Can you explain why you changed that?
23 A. I didn't -- I wasn't aware that
24 they were typed.
25 MR. WOOD: Do you have any that
0206
1 you can let her look at?
2 THE WITNESS: Do you have any of
3 those?
4 MR. LEVIN: I don't think we have
5 any in the computer.
6 MR. KANE: Not in the computer.
7 MR. LEVIN: No, no, we don't have
8 those.
9 MR. WOOD: Are you representing
10 that every one afterwards was in fact typed?
11 MR. KANE: That is what Burke's
12 teacher has told us.
__________________

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Heresay on the presumed-to-exist typed notes to BR's teacher does not a fact make. Maybe you should reread, where Wood asks them to produce copies and they can't. That should've raised a flag right away that they don't even exist because they can't be produced.

How do you know typed notes even exist? Because somebody said so?