The Intruder as a Friend

[elainebrussels]

There does seem to have been something a little out of the ordinary going on.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the possibility of Fleet White (the Ramsey's neighbour and John Ramsey's closest friend) being the perpetrator, (or Fleet's father being the perpetrator, and Fleet covering for him?)

It appears that he was so close to the family that he virtually WAS family. It's been stated that he was a very nice, calm man, and yet, of all the people around the Ramsey family when Jonbenet was murdered, and for the few days afterwards, it was a his behaviour which seemed the most bizarre of all.

The Ramseys and various friends travelled to Atlanta for Jonbenet's funeral, and some Atlanta friends hosted the Boulder friends in their homes. Fleet claimed to have been offended by the Atlanta friends' hospital and the opulence of their homes, which caused part of the fracturing of their friendship with the Ramsey's. IMO that sounds like a bit of an over-reaction. The White's also claimed that they were furious with the Ramsey's for lawyering up. They then apparently talked a lot about the Ramsey's "not cooperating with the police."
IMO that's quite disingenuous. "Lawyering up" is quite a common approach, and considered prudent early on in such circumstances. John, as head of a successful company would have access to (and likely strong business relationships with attorneys. IMO the vast majority of attorneys would counsel the Ramsey's to "lawyer up" initially. Just because someone's lawyers upon,m it does not mean that they are necessarily guilty. It's just prudent.
The Ramsey's, according to various documents, did in fact cooperate with police. AFAIK many people believed that, because they didn't do interviews for the general public, they weren't cooperating. In fact, people in such circumstances are not required to do such interviews, unless they wish to make appeals to the public for assistance (which they did repeatedly.)
It's been stated that the White's put a lot of effort in to being "the good guys", and were highly critical of the Ramsey's for "not cooperating". I find it rather strange that the White's didn't respect the Ramsey's right to make their own choices at all, particularly given that they had been such close friends.

Numerous Atlanta associates of the Ramsey's, and Patsy's father were said to have became quite fearful of Fleet and his extremely aggressive behaviour. There were statements made that Fleet had pulled a gun on some of them. I think this is incorrect, Another story noted that Patsy's father, being very worried that Fleet's behaviour could be dangerous if things escalated, ensured that he had a gun secreted nearby should things get out of hand (which IMO is the more likely of the two stories.)
IMO Fleet MAY have been involved in a cover-up possibly related to actions by his father with Jonbenet. IMO his "concerns" about the Ramsey's "not cooperating", and his annoyance with the Atlanta friends' opulent homes and hospitality, was a smokescreen used to justify his behaviour. JMO

Any thoughts?

I just cannot find any real info on who FW and PW are in terms of life history and similar. Maybe I still could not draw conclusions with those details but definitely hard to exclude without. For example, I'd want to know if either loved movies, drama, history....factors that might relate to whether they could write the note.

 

[jjleroche]

I just cannot find any real info on who FW and PW are in terms of life history and similar. Maybe I still could not draw conclusions with those details but definitely hard to exclude without. For example, I'd want to know if either loved movies, drama, history....factors that might relate to whether they could write the note.

I'll get some more information for you elainebrussels. IIRC, Fleet's son was also Burke's best friend. More to come.

 

[jjleroche]

I just cannot find any real info on who FW and PW are in terms of life history and similar. Maybe I still could not draw conclusions with those details but definitely hard to exclude without. For example, I'd want to know if either loved movies, drama, history....factors that might relate to whether they could write the note.

It's been stated that John and Fleet both loved sailing, and frequently sailed together on weekends. The White's daughter Daphne was the same age as Jonbenet, and they spent a lot of time together playing. The White's lived just a stone's throw from the Ramseys. John Ramsey had stated previously that Fleet was his best friend. The two families had spent the last couple of Christmases together, at one or the other's homes.
IIRC Fleet's father was staying at Fleet's over Christmas. It has been alleged that Fleet White senior had been involved in some sort of sex ring years ago. I have not been able to establish whether or not this is true.

My view on who could be the killer changes frequently, and there are many "facts" which have been disputed.
I know that the "Patsy did it" theory is popular, but at this point, I can't see that she is the murderer. IMO John Ramsay is also innocent. I'm in the "visitor" camp currently - ie an "insider" - someone who knew the family well, but was not a blood relative, someone who knew the Ramseys' routines, that the alarm would be off, that the dog wouldn't there, someone that Jonbenet saw often, so wouldn't have been alarmed to see show up under normal circumstances.

IMO the ransom note is a classic red herring. Patsy was a journalist - IMO she would never write such a note. For that matter, neither would a genuine kidnapper. It would be short and sharp. Something like "We've got your daughter. Give us $118,000 or we'll kill her. We'll call you tomorrow for pick-up details. Don 't call the cops - we'll kill her if you do."
I'm sure a genuine kidnapper wouldn't be mucking around with content. The ransom note had many specific points which IMO were deliberately designed to put Patsy into the frame.

I find it interesting that many posters were surprised that the Ramsey's immediately called the police. I would too. The last thing I would do is comply with the demands of the kidnappers, who have already completely destroyed their credibility by committing a major crime - they are not people of integrity. I do understand that many would do whatever the kidnappers wanted, if it meant their beloved daughter being safely returned. IMO however, the only chance (slim at that) which the Ramseys would have of ever seeing their daughter alive again would be if they DID contact law enforcement.
I don't find it in any way strange that the Ramseys immediately called LE. IMO the fact that they did so adds to their credibility

Additionally, given that Patsy was heavily dosed with valium during the times in which she was seen in public, I don't think anything can be concluded by how she behaved. She would IMO have been on autopilot, and barely able to process thoughts.
JMO and happy to be corrected.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

IIRC Fleet's father was staying at Fleet's over Christmas. It has been alleged that Fleet White senior had been involved in some sort of sex ring years ago. I have not been able to establish whether or not this is true.

As far as I know this is solely based on the word of Nancy Krebs, a disturbed woman who made some wild and unsubstantiated accusations.

 

[jjleroche]

As far as I know this is solely based on the word of Nancy Krebs, a disturbed woman who made some wild and unsubstantiated accusations.

Aha - that would be why I haven't been able to find anything substantiating the claim.
IIRC this individual had claimed to be the god-daughter of Fleet White Senior, which may be why the allegation appeared in my search. Accordingly, the "god-daughter" claim is very possibly unsubstantiated also.
Thanks FergusMcDuck.

 

[CloudedTruth]

Aha - that would be why I haven't been able to find anything substantiating the claim.
IIRC this individual had claimed to be the god-daughter of Fleet White Senior, which may be why the allegation appeared in my search. Accordingly, the "god-daughter" claim is very possibly unsubstantiated also.
Thanks FergusMcDuck.

Ah, the Nancy Krebs story....it is an interesting and salacious aspect of the case.

What is interesting is that there are parts of her story that are true. This helped to fuel some into thinking her story about the Boulder sex ring and the involvement of Fleet White and John Ramsey was credible. What was validated as truth is that the Fleet White, Sr. family did in fact know Nancy and her family when they all lived in California. It was also validated that she was in fact a victim of sexual abuse / assault. However it was later proven that her abuser was a member of her own family and not any of the White's. She however was claiming that her abusers were Fleet White, Sr., Fleet White, Jr., and John Ramsey. Fleet White, Jr. and John Ramsey did not meet until both of them had moved to and were living in Boulder.

Her story came to the attention of Boulder attorney Lee Hill, when Ms. Krebs therapist contacted him after seeing him on tv discussing the Ramsey case. He flew out to California to speak with Krebs and the therapist and thought her to be credible. Among the salacious details that she shared were that sex parties occurred during the holidays specifically so that any visible injuries would have time to heal before victims went back to school. Christmas in particular is associated with ritualistic connotations. She spoke of sex games including strangling, and that if she and other girl she claimed was also a victim did not perform as expected, they would receive a hit to the head as punishment. She also mentioned the use of a stun gun.

There are many more details to the story, however it began to unravel when she claimed she was present at the White's Christmas dinner on 12/25/96 along with a niece (IIRC). This of course was easily proven not to be true. Upon returning to Denver, Hill related the woman's story to Alex Hunter. One of the reasons she and the therapist had contacted Hill was because Krebs believed her life was in danger because of what she supposedly knew. She was subsequently flown to Denver by Hill, and two detectives interviewed her for about 5 hours.

Hunter added fuel to the fire by announcing publicly the existence of the woman and that he believed she was credible and that her story deserved a thorough investigation. A reporter from the Boulder Camera who was looking into the story then called Fleet White, Jr. and told him the story would be published. It was and the Krebs horse was off and running.

She was in fact a victim who suffered at the hands of her abuser and as such developed emotional and mental health issues.

This is the "reader's digest" version of the story.

 

[jjleroche]

But then they could have just told their story the first place - explained publicly their previous encounters with LE and why they do not trust him? They never stated out publicly or explained the story behind not trusting LE. If I had any problems with trust by previous personal experiences, I would go and explain myself to justify my behavior. Yeah you could say that they did/do not need to explain themselves to anyone, but in this case, wouldn't it served them good? And maybe public could have given them some credit. If you didn't trust LE and people started pointing their fingers at you, wouldn't you come forward and explain your reasons? Hiding behind silence only creates more speculations.


I just posted this on another topic - He was already under scrutiny. If his records had nothing special about them, when made public, the only thing that releasing them would have done is it could have saved him from 28 years of speculations.
And I'm not stating that they should have been made publicly known for everyone - they only should have been made available for the police/LE when they had requested them. When the authorities then would have had a chance to state publicly that they have received the records and there is nothing incriminating or suspicious about them, I believe the public would have been satisfied with that statement.

Who knows how any of us would react when under immense pressure. Let's not forget that John had already lost his older daughter Elizabeth (Beth) in a car accident, five years prior to Jonbenet''s murder. Additionally Patsy had beaten stage 4 cancer relatively recently, and may have felt that she was living on borrowed time. (IIRC one of her sisters had stated that Patsy was well aware of the likelihood of the cancer returning, and had felt that the pageants gave her and Jonbenet the opportunity tp spend some enjoyable time together while she was still able to do so.)

A classic case of a miscarriage of justice occurred in Australia when I was a teenager growing up in Australia. Lindy Chamberlain was found guilty of the murder of her infant daughter Azaria. Public suspicion of the Chamberlains grew strongly, and media coverage, largely based on the way the Chamberlains were perceived, fanned the flames of public outrage. Lindy was incarcerated for life, and had been in prison for four years when Azaria's matinee jacket was discovered near dingo lairs. This in effect proved what Lindy had always claimed. She was immediately released, but her children were away from their mother for four years, and irrevocable damage was done. It's difficult to explain how powerful public perceptions of the Chamberlains was, but the case truly changed Australia forever.

'The police were feeding information to the press': The Australian mother wrongly convicted of murder

After being convicted of murder in 1982, Lindy Chamberlain was exonerated six years later. In these exclusive BBC Archive clips, she describes what it was like to be wrongly accused.

www.bbc.com

JMO