Incest & Intruder

[Toltec]

Sorry to be late in responding to your question. I don't recall but I believe it was within the week I made the original post.

My infant is keeping me busy busy.

 

[Zman]

If this crime was pulled off by an intruder, how can you explain the pineapple and the inconsistent stories told by both John and Patsy? How did an intruder, from a foreign faction, convince JonBenet to sit and snack on some pineapple? Where are the defense wounds? Why would both John and Patsy tell two different stories as the goings on of the night of the 25th and the morning of the 26th if an intruder killed JonBenet? Why didn't the intruder take the body for ransom? Why weren't the Ramseys afraid to call police or send Burke out if they though they were being watched by the kidnappers?

Can't explain the pineapple but I could not explain why JR or PR would give JBR pineapple during a sexual abuse or accidental injury episode either. It makes no sense either way.

JR and PR do not tell different stories. They tell the same story from their point of view. In fact JR an PR had plenty of time to make up ONE single story and stick to it. Yet they did not.

Why would you remove the body from the house and risk being caught with it if you don't have to? If JR follows the RN instructions exactly as written the "supposed" kiddnapper may of just got his money. Even with JBR in the basement.

I'm sure at that point the R's were frantic and not in their right minds, relying on the advice of everyone around them. Sending Burke off with friends seemed like good advice at the time. Maybe they even second guess that now.

What makes you think they were not afraid to call the police that morning. If they don't call the police would you suspect them any less? I don't see any reason to suspect them because they made the right choice to call the police right away. I only wish they would have called a different police department.

 

[Eagle1]

I too think someone was trying to frame JR, who also tried to frame other members of the family, btw. For instance JAR's suitcase in the bsmt containing his blanket and a Dr. Suess book, and the open Bible, flashlight and knife on kitchen counter, etc. I can't remember at the moment a complete list. Notches on McSanta's celtic harp wouldn't be one of them. Or Helgoth's stun gun at the scene of his death, possibly an attempt to frame him. What tangled webs we humans weave! Pointing to others.

Probably we should make a complete list of all the things that could be staging to frame a family member. Should it include attempts to frame others? Shows extreme premeditation and attempt to harm, imho. No accidental killing.

 

[UKGuy]

I too think someone was trying to frame JR, who also tried to frame other members of the family, btw. For instance JAR's suitcase in the bsmt containing his blanket and a Dr. Suess book, and the open Bible, flashlight and knife on kitchen counter, etc. I can't remember at the moment a complete list. Notches on McSanta's celtic harp wouldn't be one of them. Or Helgoth's stun gun at the scene of his death, possibly an attempt to frame him. What tangled webs we humans weave! Pointing to others.

Probably we should make a complete list of all the things that could be staging to frame a family member. Should it include attempts to frame others? Shows extreme premeditation and attempt to harm, imho. No accidental killing.

Eagle1,

How about someone looking at the dictionary definition of incest for tips to see what they might exclude from JonBenet's sexual assault staging?


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[Paradox]

"Miss Brodie says prime is best." Sandy said.

"Yes, but she never got married like our mothers and fathers."
"They don't have primes," said Sandy.
"They have sexual intercourse," Jenny said.

Jenny was a reliable source of information, because a girl employed by her father in his grocer shop had recently been found to be pregnant, and Jenny had picked up some fragments of the ensuing fuss. Having confided her finds to Sandy, they had embarked on a course of research which they called "research," piecing together clues from remembered conversations illicitly overheard and passages from the big dictionaries.
From the book The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie.

 

[Rupert]

"Miss Brodie says prime is best." Sandy said.

"Yes, but she never got married like our mothers and fathers."
"They don't have primes," said Sandy.
"They have sexual intercourse," Jenny said.

Jenny was a reliable source of information, because a girl employed by her father in his grocer shop had recently been found to be pregnant, and Jenny had picked up some fragments of the ensuing fuss. Having confided her finds to Sandy, they had embarked on a course of research which they called "research," piecing together clues from remembered conversations illicitly overheard and passages from the big dictionaries.
From the book The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie.

So, did Patsy read PMJB?

I note the perp keeps telling John in the RN that he is responsible. Fits with Sharpar's comment (Patsy did it and blamed it on John).

 

[BBB167893]

"I note the perp keeps telling John in the RN that he is responsible."

Yeah, I noticed that.

"John! All I asked was for you to take a little time to help me with the kids, but you couldn't be bothered! Well, I'm going to give you a fifty-fifty chance!"

 

[Toltec]

Yes, maybe so (unless I am reading all too much into this).



Maybe an intruder? Who knows? When PR talked about the "color purple", ribbons in the trees, and My Twin Doll, that shook me up some too.

Miss Patricia Paugh forgot to mention the beautiful PURPLE velvet dress her daughter wore CHRISTMAS EVE!

 

[narlacat]

Yes, maybe so (unless I am reading all too much into this).


Zman, you think like me. Too many subtle clues make me wonder about this puzzle. Did you ever watch the movie "Rope"? Very scary, especially the last part with a pan on the painting of the four horsemen. Incidently, that's where I picked up my sleuth name.

Maybe an intruder? Who knows? When PR talked about the "color purple", ribbons in the trees, and My Twin Doll, that shook me up some too.

Patsy having two premonitons about her daughter's death is suspicious, one is strange enough but two?
Did they really happen, or was she trying to create a smokescreen to avoid tougher questions later on>?

 

[Rupert]

Patsy having two premonitons about her daughter's death is suspicious, one is strange enough but two?
Did they really happen, or was she trying to create a smokescreen to avoid tougher questions later on>?

Narlacat,
"to avoid tougher questions later on" - You say it so subtly but it came to my mind too. The thing that Hodges picked up on might be a preparation of defense. Or maybe like Paradox says, there might be more than one person there.

 

[Eagle1]

Eagle1,

How about someone looking at the dictionary definition of incest for tips to see what they might exclude from JonBenet's sexual assault staging?

Yes, could have happened, but I THINK they would have written it down in a small notebook that I believe investigators still typically carry, instead of taking a picture which doesn't explain why it exists, don't you? Leaving it loose in the evidence package so that it fell out when ST picked it up was either awfully careless or, imho, a scheme to call special attention to it to frame JR, all of this done after hours or at least after the crime scene had been officially investigated. Know I could be wrong, but it just seems to me the picture is meant to tell a story, to make appearances deceiving. To give a false impression and call attention to it.

 

[BBB167893]

I don't think I follow you.

 

[Rupert]

I don't think I follow you.

I think what he is saying is that the BPD staged it with a photo.
Not so far off from the communications with the rags.

Maybe it was dog earred to the page which contains "incest" amongst many others. Maybe it was an intruder or maybe it was a Ramsay.

The RN author watched movies and read books. We know that for sure. I'm going to check Mis Jean Brodie, the only one I haven't watcg yet.

 

[UKGuy]

Were all the words on this incest page and its counterpart checked for relevance with words in the ransom note?

I guess thats when I might need a dictionary: authoring my 1st ransom note!


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[BBB167893]

"I think what he is saying is that the BPD staged it with a photo."

Hmm, must be the same cops who worked for the LAPD! LOL

 

[LinasK]

So, did Patsy read PMJB?

According to a previous post of Camper's IIRC:waitasec: , PMJB was Patsy's talent show soliloque for Miss West Virginia.

 

[Eagle1]

No, I wasn't saying the whole BPD would do such a stupid thing as to mark the word "incest" in the dictionary and take a picture of it, when the crime scene INVESTIGATION WAS OVER and done with.

If the open dictionary had been there when they were going over the crime scene, and this picture was WITH all the others, that'd be different, a little.

Sounds like just one person had an afterthought and planted the loose picture hoping to fool the whole BPD. (I know, all of them pretty much wanted it to be the R's, but nobody else could be that dumb, imho, to try to do it that way.)

UKGuy says maybe someone was looking up the word to help compose his first ransom note. Maybe. But arranging the evidence folder so that picture would fall out I think shows it was meant to be noticed as evidence.

BTW, Eagle1 is a grandma, not a he, Rupert. I've noticed and liked some of your threads.

 

[LinasK]

(I know, all of them pretty much wanted it to be the R's, but nobody else could be that dumb, imho, to try to do it that way.)

Yes they could! Scott Peterson had his yellow pages open to the criminal attorneys when they photographed his house.

 

[Eagle1]

Very high percent of all type of abusers were victims of that abuse as children .

I can believe that, and guess you also have a source, some survey.

We all agree the ransom note sounds like REVENGE on JR is part of the motive.

But revenge for what? An abused perp is punishing JR because his own abusers aren't available to him to punish or take revenge on?

JR once had an affair. If the woman was married, and her husband was going to take revenge, seems like he would have done it years earlier, wouldn't have been following the Rs' life this long to find an opportunity.

How else could JR have offended anyone? Firings, already has been investigated and dismissed. What else? Could be the perp, if there is one, has some means of spying on American families and another personality problem, plain old jealousy, kids himself that others besides himself can't be allowed to have too much "pride". Wasn't that part of Charles Manson's motive? He thought Sharon Tate looked down on him?

BTW, I came across a booklet on handwriting analysis, one of those you get in a grocery checkout line, and Manson and some other killers slant their "d" way way down to the right, looks like about a 45 degree angle.

It's called "a maniac d". Guess I never have known any maniacs, thought I had, never saw or heard of that before. Has anyone ever seen an example of that?

 

[BBB167893]

Yes they could! Scott Peterson had his yellow pages open to the criminal attorneys when they photographed his house.

And where is he now?

Oh, yeah! Now I remember!