Are the Ramseys involved or not?

[otg]

It may have gone up over time, but it was originally just $100,000.

I think (IIRC) it was originally $50,000 that the Ramsey offered. ($50,000/$118,000 -- seems they always discounted how much they felt she was worth.) Then one of the tabs (Globe, Enquirer ?) offered $100,000 for information and embarrassed them into immediately raising it to $100.000.

 

[JeannaT]

To answer the question, nope, the Ramseys were not involved in this child's death. If this dear child's death is EVER solved, I think it will be with a sigh of OF COURSE!! OF COURSE that's who did it. Just like Elizabeth Smart. Of course, of course that's who kidnapped her.

 

[UKGuy]

This damn flashlight argument again.

First, show me one credible source that says the batteries and flashlight were wiped?

Second, because no identifiable prints were found, doesn't mean it was wiped

Third, It has a knurled grip surface, I wouldn't expect prints on the handle.

Fourth and final, If it was wiped it was probably because it was used as the murder weapon. You'd want to take that thing right apart and wash every piece separately to ensure no blood, hair or skin was in any of the crevaces.

andreww,
LOL, lots of light and thunder. The flashlight was forensically tested, end of. No fingerprints were discovered end of. Murder weapon, possibly?

.

 

[887sMtreme]

I think (IIRC) it was originally $50,000 that the Ramsey offered. ($50,000/$118,000 -- seems they always discounted how much they felt she was worth.) Then one of the tabs (Globe, Enquirer ?) offered $100,000 for information and embarrassed them into immediately raising it to $100.000.

A Candy Rose provides this chain of events:

JonBenet Ramsey Reward History

January 15, 1997 Globe offers $50,000 Reward (AP 01/15/97)

April 27, 1997 Ramseys offered $100,000 Reward

June 23, 1997 Globe offered "1/2 Million REWARD For JonBenet's Killer" (Globe 06/23/97)

April 11, 1998 John Ramsey offered 1 Millon dollar reward
("with the help of friends") (DOIpage266)

September 28, 1998 John Ramsey offered the $100,000 to the killer's family
(Denver Post letter from John Ramsey in Response to the Resignation of Detective Lou Smit)

December 26, 2001 Lin Wood is quoted in USA Today
"family no longer has the $100,000 reward it had been offering" (USAToday 12/26/2001)

 

[andreww]

andreww,
LOL, lots of light and thunder. The flashlight was forensically tested, end of. No fingerprints were discovered end of. Murder weapon, possibly?

.

Again, more to it than just proclaiming the flashlight was wiped. Do we have any confirmation from LE that says that? Were smudged, non useable prints found on that flashlight? I think it is an important point because if the flashlight had indeed been wiped clean you would have to ask yourself why? There were no intruder prints found as far as I am aware, so assuming there was and intruder, they would be wearing gloves. There would be no need to wipe the flashlight. But as most of us suspect the Ramseys, why would they feel the need to wipe the flashlight? Their prints should have been on it. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that the flashlight was the murder weapon, and that it was wiped to remove any blood, hair or skin that may have attached to it when it was used to club JB on the head. IMO that is pretty sound reasoning, but it is solely based on the idea that it was wiped. Any quotes from LE regarding this would be most helpful.

 

[887sMtreme]

They could have passed it off as a convenient tool for an intruder to have used in killing their daughter when their "kidnap" plans went awry for some inexplicable reason. I mean, these same alleged intruders helped themselves to the R's notepad and Sharpie, didn't they? That would have made more sense than the whole bizarre RN scenario. Of course, as I said elsewhere recently, we may be trying to make sense of actions that were definitively insane, by nature irrational and beyond our imagining.

 

[andreww]

They could have passed it off as a convenient tool for an intruder to have used in killing their daughter when their "kidnap" plans went awry for some inexplicable reason. I mean, these same alleged intruders helped themselves to the R's notepad and Sharpie, didn't they? That would have made more sense than the whole bizarre RN scenario. Of course, as I said elsewhere recently, we may be trying to make sense of actions that were definitively insane, by nature irrational and beyond our imagining.

Not insane, well thought out. There is evidence that is hidden, there is evidence that is manufactured and there is evidence that has been destroyed. There are three possible witnesses, all keeping their mouths shut. The Ramsey's are at an advantage here because they know what happened. There are a million different possible theories and the Ramseys can punch holes in all but one of them because they know exactly what did or didn't happen.

 

[887sMtreme]

the Ramseys can punch holes in all but one of them because they know exactly what did or didn't happen.

True, that -- or so I believe.

 

[Landonsmom02]

Ugh I was looking for the 911 call on youtube last night and came across JBR-investiagation. It's in 5 parts. I watch all of them and it is so pro-ramsey that I just about puked. They had one of the PI do a walk through of the house(this aired in 2000) I think. Anyway while in the WC they made a 2 comments about the shoe print and the palm print on the door. Not once was it ever mentioned that the palm print was linked back to a Ramsey. And J and P are so full of it in the interviews.

 

[kdkitty]

My opinion and my opinion only I have doubts of the Ramsey ' s being involved. They had a long day that day and would need to be up early the next day so I have a feeling (but no proof) they both may have taken a sleep aid either prescribed or over the counter to try and fall asleep as quickly as possible in hopes of being more rested the next morning. Guilt over thinking that action may have prevented them from helping their child when she was in trouble could make them behave strangely. Then there is the ransom note. I have known a few girls who competed in pageants and we're known more for looks than brains and it's easy to picture Patsy as one of them. The note points not only to someone who watched movies quite a bit but also to someone who loved fiction and writing. I've yet to hear any facts leading me to believe she loved writing and had such an incredible imagination to come up with that extremely long note.
Then there are some facts I feel point to someone else. They had a neighbor who fancied herself a writer and who had even written a long play with a very similar plot to this murder. Jon Benet knew this neighbors husband as Santa and had told that Santa was supposed to visit with a special surprise for her after Christmas. There were stories coming from him in the media at the time that she was special to him and he certainly appeared to be thrilled with the attention the press was giving him.
My opinion is Santa and his wife may have had a key to the home (often people give one to a neighbor in case of an emergency) they decided to play out their fantasy of staging the wife's play to some extent or another. They simply unlocked the door, went to Jon Benet's room and woke her. Telling her to be quiet because it was a surprise they led her downstairs. While his wife wrote the note, Santa fed her pineapple. Then he led her to the basement for her surprise. I feel what was supposed to happen was he was supposed to be behind her and was supposed to hit her in the head just hard enough to knock her out. Then after staged it to look as if someone had broken in and attacked them his wife would hit him to try and make it look as if he were hurt and then leave. They would play out the rest of it the next day when the police showed up saying both he and Jon Benet were attacked but didn't see their attacker. If she said she thought he hit her he would correct her and say she didn't see him hit her creating doubt in her little mind.
Either he hit her too hard or he chose to molest her before knocking her out. Either way his wife walked in and helped him stage the crime to look as if it were someone else and they both left.

 

[tweezybird]

My opinion and my opinion only I have doubts of the Ramsey ' s being involved. They had a long day that day and would need to be up early the next day so I have a feeling (but no proof) they both may have taken a sleep aid either prescribed or over the counter to try and fall asleep as quickly as possible in hopes of being more rested the next morning. Guilt over thinking that action may have prevented them from helping their child when she was in trouble could make them behave strangely. Then there is the ransom note. I have known a few girls who competed in pageants and we're known more for looks than brains and it's easy to picture Patsy as one of them. The note points not only to someone who watched movies quite a bit but also to someone who loved fiction and writing. I've yet to hear any facts leading me to believe she loved writing and had such an incredible imagination to come up with that extremely long note.
Then there are some facts I feel point to someone else. They had a neighbor who fancied herself a writer and who had even written a long play with a very similar plot to this murder. Jon Benet knew this neighbors husband as Santa and had told that Santa was supposed to visit with a special surprise for her after Christmas. There were stories coming from him in the media at the time that she was special to him and he certainly appeared to be thrilled with the attention the press was giving him.
My opinion is Santa and his wife may have had a key to the home (often people give one to a neighbor in case of an emergency) they decided to play out their fantasy of staging the wife's play to some extent or another. They simply unlocked the door, went to Jon Benet's room and woke her. Telling her to be quiet because it was a surprise they led her downstairs. While his wife wrote the note, Santa fed her pineapple. Then he led her to the basement for her surprise. I feel what was supposed to happen was he was supposed to be behind her and was supposed to hit her in the head just hard enough to knock her out. Then after staged it to look as if someone had broken in and attacked them his wife would hit him to try and make it look as if he were hurt and then leave. They would play out the rest of it the next day when the police showed up saying both he and Jon Benet were attacked but didn't see their attacker. If she said she thought he hit her he would correct her and say she didn't see him hit her creating doubt in her little mind.
Either he hit her too hard or he chose to molest her before knocking her out. Either way his wife walked in and helped him stage the crime to look as if it were someone else and they both left.

Sorry, no offense but I don't buy it. Way to far fetched for me.

 

[kdkitty]

So we choose to disagree

 

[887sMtreme]

The very last thing I would do after a long and tiring day -- especially if I had to be up at the crack of dawn the next morning -- would be to take "a sleep aid." The only aid I would need would be my pillow.

Tweezybird speaks for me as to the plausibility of your Santa scenario.

 

[kdkitty]

Nothing on the website says I have to only agree with your ideas just as it doesn't say you have to agree with mine. I stand by my post

 

[BOESP]

Patsy had a four-year college degree (BA) in journalism. She knew how to write. There are examples of her annual Christmas letters available on the Internet. Here's one: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8634.html.

 

[UKGuy]

Nothing on the website says I have to only agree with your ideas just as it doesn't say you have to agree with mine. I stand by my post

kdkitty,
All the Ramsey's were involved, including BR. Who colluded with his parents to fake being asleep when the first responders arrived. BR was awake during the 911 call his parents later acknowledged this, thereby placing him in the frame and destroying any credibility that their version of events may previously have held.

As we learn more about the case the more we can distinguish between fact and opinion, the latter alike a theory or conjecture cannot compete with the established facts.

.

 

[mason503]

BR, also admitted he was awake at the GJ. I believe that's when his parents (supposedly) learned about it for the first time. :giggle:

 

[887sMtreme]

BR was awake during the 911 call his parents later acknowledged this

Source for this?

 

[pukasonqo2]

Source for this?

burke's voice was heard on the 911 call recordings as per schiller's APMAPT book, you can check it in this website:
http://www.acandyrose.com/12261996-911.htm
and it has been discussed in this forum many, many times

 

[pukasonqo2]

double post