Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[LadyEdith]

Someone just posted this on Facebook, and I thought it was worth sharing. I have thought this too because of how she has been "outing" Travis... And because someone with Anti Social Personality Disorder will go to any extreme for self preservation ...every time she says she has been trying to protect Travis, that is not true...it's been all about protecting herself... She even admitted that..."she didn't want anyone to know she was capable of doing such a thing"...

"The most DAMNING EVIDENCE is the MOTIVE that people are NOT SEEING! Connect the dots. On MAY 26th, 2008, TRAVIS sends that long VICIOUS TEXT MESSAGE to JODI, in which he calls her a SOCIOPATH, tells her he is sick of her DRAMA, that she is stressing him out on a daily basis. He basically calls her manipulative and says "you're the worst thing that has ever happened to me", and "I'm beginning to really dislike you" and THREATENS HER that he is going to seek REVENGE by TELLING EVERYONE (FAMILY and FRIENDS) about her "psycho ways". HE Also tells her that she had BETTER START PAYING HIM BACK for the CAR she bought from him. He was always bailing her out of financial trouble and he saw her as irresponsible. TWO DAYS LATER, HER GRANDPARENTS GUN IS STOLEN! (on. May 28th) JODI RENTS A CAR ON JUNE 2nd, takes gas cans, and leaves on her trip for AZ. (and takes measures to try to cover up her trip along the way). On JUNE 4th, TRAVIS IS KILLED! It's not rocket science. She leaves him a $200 check in his desk that is dated May 26. She left it there for the cops to think it was mailed to him days before. She sent that text mentioning it days later, knowing full well it wound never be cashed, cuz he was already dead. THE MOTIVE: She was going to be OUTED by TRAVIS as the SOCIOPATH that she is and the result was RAGE and REVENGE. She was PISSED that he said all the mean things he said in that text a week prior and that started her murderous plot in motion. She realized he would never marry her and he was moving on in his life with other women. She was his BOOTY CALL, period and he was DONE WITH HER. And she would be OFF THE HOOK from having to PAY HIM BACK."​

Thanks so much for this and I want to address it in-depth but I have to run out right now. I will comment on it later todat for sure.

 

[pip]

I'm new on these boards so just jumping in here as I've become an avid watcher of this trial. My two cents: I think Jodi is a borderline personality with narcissistic and sociopathic personality disorders combined. Borderline personality would account for an inability to accept rejection, to be extremely manipulative, and to exact revenge on those who abandon her. Her sexual manipulation of Travis was the only thing she had to reel him in but it wasn't enough to sustain the relationship. I think Travis was very immature when it came to sexcapades - once she opened that door he couldn't get enough but I do believe she was in control most of the time. Right now I think she's in way over her head and she's beginning to realize it. She thinks she's smarter than everyone in that courthouse. Today when she said something like if she's convicted she knows it will be her own fault....well, she's using what she thinks is reverse psychology on the jurors - she thinks that no one would believe that a guilty person would say such a thing. Many times she states that the "fight" in the bathroom "escalated" and she was in fear for her life but she can't describe what "escalate" means. The more she goes over that testimony the more it sounds weak and feeble because there was nothing to be afraid of. She won't admit to anger because it was more than that, it was rage. Anyway, that's my two cents.
;-) Zaza

I think you have summed up JA very nicely. I agree 100%.
Rage is exactly what it was.
A repetitive pattern with Jodi and her prior relationships is that when she has been "wronged", she initiates a confrontation. Drops whatever she is doing and goes. She has to be heard loud and clear. She admits to a confrontation with Bobby, Matt, Bianca etc. She admits to writing break up letters because she felt the need to tell them how she feels and has been hurt. She confronted Mimi anonymously thru the John Doe email. It's all about Jodi. I don't believe for a minute that any of these confrontations were calm and friendly. I think she snapped into a rage each time and sped right into confrontation mode.
I don't believe she would murder Travis before getting her chance to confront him verbally with all of her pain and anger over him rejecting her 'love'. It would be an absolute MUST for Jodi. No silent surprise killing without an unleashing of words first. I can guess what she said pretty easily, but would love to know how that went down. Where, how. I think it was in the bathroom while he was in the shower at gunpoint. YOU WILL listen to me. The gun would give her total control. He does not look very happy about whatever is going on in the last pic of him alive.
JMO

 

[zaza]

I think you have summed up JA very nicely. I agree 100%.
Rage is exactly what it was.
A repetitive pattern with Jodi and her prior relationships is that when she has been "wronged", she initiates a confrontation. Drops whatever she is doing and goes. She has to be heard loud and clear. She admits to a confrontation with Bobby, Matt, Bianca etc. She admits to writing break up letters because she felt the need to tell them how she feels and has been hurt. She confronted Mimi anonymously thru the John Doe email. It's all about Jodi. I don't believe for a minute that any of these confrontations were calm and friendly. I think she snapped into a rage each time and sped right into confrontation mode.
I don't believe she would murder Travis before getting her chance to confront him verbally with all of her pain and anger over him rejecting her 'love'. It would be an absolute MUST for Jodi. No silent surprise killing without an unleashing of words first. I can guess what she said pretty easily, but would love to know how that went down. Where, how. I think it was in the bathroom while he was in the shower at gunpoint. YOU WILL listen to me. The gun would give her total control. He does not look very happy about whatever is going on in the last pic of him alive.
JMO

I agree with you. The thing about female borderlines is their exaggerated urge or need to appear to be perfect and in control always to the outside world. Losing control is something that is very private and would have to be planned or premeditated. They're also very slippery, psychologically speaking. Psychologists or therapists have a time keeping on their toes when they are treating borderlines as they are very good at projecting their emotions onto others. They refuse to take responsibility for what they deem or what they believe is deemed negative or unacceptable emotions within themselves. How many times has Jodi said she feels the need to "edify" Travis' memory, to stay away from anything negative - because she thinks that if she speaks positively about Travis this will ultimately reflect positively upon herself - however, of course, she projects the ultimate perversion upon Travis by claiming that she caught him viewing child *advertiser censored*. Although she has tried to "edify" him, she has to project that he is a worse human being than she could ever be...even if she is a killer....very twisted little girl.

 

[zaza]

Someone just posted this on Facebook, and I thought it was worth sharing. I have thought this too because of how she has been "outing" Travis... And because someone with Anti Social Personality Disorder will go to any extreme for self preservation ...every time she says she has been trying to protect Travis, that is not true...it's been all about protecting herself... She even admitted that..."she didn't want anyone to know she was capable of doing such a thing"...

"The most DAMNING EVIDENCE is the MOTIVE that people are NOT SEEING! Connect the dots. On MAY 26th, 2008, TRAVIS sends that long VICIOUS TEXT MESSAGE to JODI, in which he calls her a SOCIOPATH, tells her he is sick of her DRAMA, that she is stressing him out on a daily basis. He basically calls her manipulative and says "you're the worst thing that has ever happened to me", and "I'm beginning to really dislike you" and THREATENS HER that he is going to seek REVENGE by TELLING EVERYONE (FAMILY and FRIENDS) about her "psycho ways". HE Also tells her that she had BETTER START PAYING HIM BACK for the CAR she bought from him. He was always bailing her out of financial trouble and he saw her as irresponsible. TWO DAYS LATER, HER GRANDPARENTS GUN IS STOLEN! (on. May 28th) JODI RENTS A CAR ON JUNE 2nd, takes gas cans, and leaves on her trip for AZ. (and takes measures to try to cover up her trip along the way). On JUNE 4th, TRAVIS IS KILLED! It's not rocket science. She leaves him a $200 check in his desk that is dated May 26. She left it there for the cops to think it was mailed to him days before. She sent that text mentioning it days later, knowing full well it wound never be cashed, cuz he was already dead. THE MOTIVE: She was going to be OUTED by TRAVIS as the SOCIOPATH that she is and the result was RAGE and REVENGE. She was PISSED that he said all the mean things he said in that text a week prior and that started her murderous plot in motion. She realized he would never marry her and he was moving on in his life with other women. She was his BOOTY CALL, period and he was DONE WITH HER. And she would be OFF THE HOOK from having to PAY HIM BACK."​

I find this very fascinating and think it is probably right on. If Travis threatened to tell "EVERYONE (FAMILY and FRIENDS) about her psycho ways", that probably caused her to have major anxiety and threw her into a very focused, tunnel vision rage. She was obsessed and compelled to shut him up forever. Terribly tragic for Travis as he really had no idea what he was dealing with.

 

[lil_buddy]

This is true, just not, um, um, psychopaths.

Hi! This reminds me of an article I linked in another thread:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/shadow-boxing/201301/literary-murderers
Summary: Talented artist and evil murderer are NOT mutually exclusive.

 

[lil_buddy]

Thanks so much for this and I want to address it in-depth but I have to run out right now. I will comment on it later todat for sure.

YAY! I always look forward to reading your posts; you're such a smarty-pants.

 

[LadyEdith]

What I hope to do is to create a timeline that builds on the thesis and comments below, that due to her personality disorders (whatever they may be) there was a series of events (some of them listed below) that led to Jodi deciding to, planning and murdering Travis.

Someone just posted this on Facebook, and I thought it was worth sharing. I have thought this too because of how she has been "outing" Travis... And because someone with Anti Social Personality Disorder will go to any extreme for self preservation ...every time she says she has been trying to protect Travis, that is not true...it's been all about protecting herself... She even admitted that..."she didn't want anyone to know she was capable of doing such a thing"...

I agree about this on matters big and small. I think she is disparaging Travis on a grand scale, because her personality is abhorrent on a grand scale. She is projecting her failure as a human being onto Travis, and claiming his wonderful traits AND HIS VICTIMHOOD (she is asserting that she is his victim, though he is hers).

"The most DAMNING EVIDENCE is the MOTIVE that people are NOT SEEING! Connect the dots. On MAY 26th, 2008, TRAVIS sends that long VICIOUS TEXT MESSAGE to JODI, in which he calls her a SOCIOPATH, tells her he is sick of her DRAMA, that she is stressing him out on a daily basis. He basically calls her manipulative and says "you're the worst thing that has ever happened to me", and "I'm beginning to really dislike you" and THREATENS HER that he is going to seek REVENGE by TELLING EVERYONE (FAMILY and FRIENDS) about her "psycho ways". HE Also tells her that she had BETTER START PAYING HIM BACK for the CAR she bought from him. He was always bailing her out of financial trouble and he saw her as irresponsible.


I believe there were events that preceded the ones above. I will add them to the list above in a more detailed post to come.

TWO DAYS LATER, HER GRANDPARENTS GUN IS STOLEN! (on. May 28th) JODI RENTS A CAR ON JUNE 2nd, takes gas cans, and leaves on her trip for AZ. (and takes measures to try to cover up her trip along the way). On JUNE 4th, TRAVIS IS KILLED! It's not rocket science. She leaves him a $200 check in his desk that is dated May 26. She left it there for the cops to think it was mailed to him days before.

Not a major point in the big picture, but I agree with this completely and am surprised this piece of evidence and addition to the motive has apparently slipped through the cracks.

She sent that text mentioning it days later, knowing full well it wound never be cashed, cuz he was already dead. THE MOTIVE: She was going to be OUTED by TRAVIS as the SOCIOPATH that she is and the result was RAGE and REVENGE. She was PISSED that he said all the mean things he said in that text a week prior and that started her murderous plot in motion. She realized he would never marry her and he was moving on in his life with other women. She was his BOOTY CALL, period and he was DONE WITH HER. And she would be OFF THE HOOK from having to PAY HIM BACK."​

I think the rage was key, in addition to powerlessness and the failure at what had become her key coping mechanism and operating system of life: manipulation.



Nancy Drew, thank you for posting this from Facebook and your comments. I will try and work on this theory over the weekend and post as soon as I can, but since this trial started I've been living like a college boy away from home for the first time--so while my kids are away this weekend I'm going to catch up on laundry and other necessities of life, taking breaks to work on this theory.

 

[SassyBrat]

I completely agree. I have a friend with BPD. Her episodes are never hidden..her and her husband while they seemed happily married are interrupted quite a bit by her spells .. Not saying that right. BPD isnt something u can hide. Moo

I have BPD and I have felt very troubled with watching JA on the stand. I have said a few times it is like watching myself. Difference is, I am learning what my triggers are through therapy. I am also waiting to start a very intense program to work through my issues.

I can see the flat, non emotions on Jodi's face. Where people feel she has no remorse etc. I suspect it is because she has had to protect herself and her feelings for so long, they are buried deep inside of her. I've been accused of this as well. That's what I noticed right away.

I know what rage can feel like and I suspect that Jodi felt that because she "went out of her way" by driving to see TA, then having sex with him etc. that she "had him" and that nothing had changed. When she learned that he was still going to Cancun without her, is when her rage flared.

 

[Cate49]

Much thanks to the folks that have shared information on living with a PD. Learning through you makes the wording and opinions I post to be more sensitive.

 

[Cate49]

Jon Ronson wrote a book "psychopath test: journey through the madness". He tells that CEO's are found 4% higher than the general population to being a psychopath.

 

[Ambiance]

On JUNE 4th, TRAVIS IS KILLED! It's not rocket science. She leaves him a $200 check in his desk that is dated May 26. She left it there for the cops to think it was mailed to him days before.

It would be very interesting to see her check register. There could be checks written that have a later date on them but an earlier check number than this one.

 

[Cate49]

Sorry to post in little bit the iPad loses connection then I lose my post.
Law enforcement uses the " Hare" test to scale psycopath behavior. 40 being highest and most dangerous 0 the low. Psycopaths are a spectrum of behavior. So, some psycopaths function in society without breaking laws. Test named after Robert Hare.

 

[HMSHood]

I wonder if Jodi Arias has any history of bullying when she was younger.

 

[writer7]

Sorry to post in little bit the iPad loses connection then I lose my post.
Law enforcement uses the " Hare" test to scale psycopath behavior. 40 being highest and most dangerous 0 the low. Psycopaths are a spectrum of behavior. So, some psycopaths function in society without breaking laws. Test named after Robert Hare.

I have an acquaintance who says she scores into psychopath range in testing. She's a scientist and spends her days working with objective facts and enjoys that. I probably wouldn't like being stranded in a lifeboat with her, but she seems fine. She likes her reputation, and that leaves out the ability to do 99% of awful things for most smart, everyday psychopaths. If one values their reputation, the easiest way to keep it clear is to avoid doing things that could bring it down, lol It's much harder to juggle all the rest. I like lazy psychopaths that way

Seriously, though, it's freaky to hear her admit that she doesn't get things like condolences, etc. She'll send a note about a death of a loved one because she knows that's the polite thing to do, but she doesn't understand how it helps anyone at all. Certain things like that make it clear that even she is definitely different than most people.

 

[lil_buddy]

I have an acquaintance who says she scores into psychopath range in testing. She's a scientist and spends her days working with objective facts and enjoys that. I probably wouldn't like being stranded in a lifeboat with her, but she seems fine. She likes her reputation, and that leaves out the ability to do 99% of awful things for most smart, everyday psychopaths. If one values their reputation, the easiest way to keep it clear is to avoid doing things that could bring it down, lol It's much harder to juggle all the rest. I like lazy psychopaths that way

Seriously, though, it's freaky to hear her admit that she doesn't get things like condolences, etc. She'll send a note about a death of a loved one because she knows that's the polite thing to do, but she doesn't understand how it helps anyone at all. Certain things like that make it clear that even she is definitely different than most people.

Just out of curiosity, how does she feel about pets?

 

[Ricochet]

She'll send a note about a death of a loved one because she knows that's the polite thing to do, but she doesn't understand how it helps anyone at all. Certain things like that make it clear that even she is definitely different than most people.

I'm borderline, but I can relate to this somewhat although I'm slightly different. I relate to the it being polite, but at the same time I also feel like I'm lying, because if I don't know the person who died or was injured I have no emotional attachment to them so, not intended to be harsh, but I don't care and I'm not sure why someone would expect me to care. I'd never be blunt and say that to someone, but that is what's taking place in my head. I suppose I feel this way to a lesser degree in other instances as well. I am wondering now exactly how does it help? Why would you even care?

My emotions are weird in that I understand happiness, sadness, anger and I know when I'm experiencing them, but the more subtle ones give me difficult because I don't know what they are or maybe what to call them is a better way of putting it. For ie. I'll hear someone on TV talk about an experience and how it made them feel and by their description I can relate that to how I felt in a past situation, and that's how I know what to call it. I know what I'm trying to say, but it's not coming out the right way I don't think.

 

[writer7]

Just out of curiosity, how does she feel about pets?

That acquaintance doesn't have any pets, I don't think.

The raging psychopath I was roommates with did have her own cat for a while, though, at home. She always complained about it being 'crazy'. After a few months of living together, it became clear that my cat was afraid of her, though. Her boyfriend let it slip that she threw shoes at my cat when I wasn't there for coming into her room!

I had seen her cuddle her own cat back in her parents' house, so I was taken aback by the whole pet thing later. Once again, there can be things for show, so if someone cuddles a cat there's no telling if she's treating it badly behind closed doors That cat wasn't crazy. She was!

 

[SassyBrat]

I'm borderline, but I can relate to this somewhat although I'm slightly different. I relate to the it being polite, but at the same time I also feel like I'm lying, because if I don't know the person who died or was injured I have no emotional attachment to them so, not intended to be harsh, but I don't care and I'm not sure why someone would expect me to care. I'd never be blunt and say that to someone, but that is what's taking place in my head. I suppose I feel this way to a lesser degree in other instances as well. I am wondering now exactly how does it help? Why would you even care?

My emotions are weird in that I understand happiness, sadness, anger and I know when I'm experiencing them, but the more subtle ones give me difficult because I don't know what they are or maybe what to call them is a better way of putting it. For ie. I'll hear someone on TV talk about an experience and how it made them feel and by their description I can relate that to how I felt in a past situation, and that's how I know what to call it. I know what I'm trying to say, but it's not coming out the right way I don't think.

I understand what you are trying to say, its not easy sometimes to put down the words that are trying to come out of head or mouth.

I know for me, when someone passes away, even if I know them really well, I often show very little emotion. It has really bothered me. Its like walking around numb, bouncing back and forth on a hard wall and feeling nothing.

 

[writer7]

I'm borderline, but I can relate to this somewhat although I'm slightly different. I relate to the it being polite, but at the same time I also feel like I'm lying, because if I don't know the person who died or was injured I have no emotional attachment to them so, not intended to be harsh, but I don't care and I'm not sure why someone would expect me to care. I'd never be blunt and say that to someone, but that is what's taking place in my head. I suppose I feel this way to a lesser degree in other instances as well. I am wondering now exactly how does it help? Why would you even care?

My emotions are weird in that I understand happiness, sadness, anger and I know when I'm experiencing them, but the more subtle ones give me difficult because I don't know what they are or maybe what to call them is a better way of putting it. For ie. I'll hear someone on TV talk about an experience and how it made them feel and by their description I can relate that to how I felt in a past situation, and that's how I know what to call it. I know what I'm trying to say, but it's not coming out the right way I don't think.

I'm glad you are explaining it, and I'm glad folks are emphasizing that there are levels of these things. I try to call the girl who hurt me a 'raging psychopath' or a 'really bad psychopath' because the jump to such criminal violence is very big!

Folks with Aspergers can also have differences understanding the complex sympathy-type emotions. Certainly folks with Autism proper can have that as a symptom. It's not just a personality disorder that can cause those differences. For the really bad psychopaths, etc, I think they just totally run with it, though! No therapy for them, lol.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I find this very fascinating and think it is probably right on. If Travis threatened to tell "EVERYONE (FAMILY and FRIENDS) about her psycho ways", that probably caused her to have major anxiety and threw her into a very focused, tunnel vision rage. She was obsessed and compelled to shut him up forever. Terribly tragic for Travis as he really had no idea what he was dealing with.

This is what I think was the catalyst for her actions too, that is the tell off message she received from him. By the way, was that message presented/put into evidence or is that a story JA has presented minus the proof? The info that stands in my way of believing wholeheartedly is that TA told a friend about what he wrote to JA and the friend warned him or asked him 'aren't you afraid she'll take revenge on you' or something like that. Apparently TA wasn't concerned and shrugged his friend's comment off. At that point, the subject was dropped.
Come to think of it, the friend's acknowledgment of the message is a form of proof I guess.

If by that time, TA felt that JA was a sociopath and wrote those vile words to her calling her such, then why the heck did he let her back into his house on June 4? Furthermore, why would he engage in sexual activity with her after he said such extreme words to her? He was thirty years old, not a teenager or so young as not to have ANY life experience. His behavior makes no sense to me and causes me to imagine that he could have regularly acted out meanly, believing it was okay to behave that way, causing his words to be empty over time.
Like a ranting person blowing off steam and after they decide it's time everything should be okay again, everyone else is expected to accept that too. Ever know anyone like that? I have.