Armchair Psych Profile and JH's Background

[CARIIS]

You know what just struck me! IMO! !At its core this seems to be basically about two general schools of thought. One is that his court appearance was BS , and those of us who beleive that what we saw was component severe pathology or medication

Obviously I am of the latter belief - resulting in my beleif that he will be ruled incompt to stand trial. Lets pretend a magic wand happened and it was proven his behavior (pretend!) was authentic the question is then.

Did that 12 minutes to anyone look like an individual that really had a clue about what had happened or what was truly going on that day in the courtroom?

If one saw that behavior at a restaurant at a table would one not come to a conlcusion that something might be "off".

But in a real awful way it seems like we are never gonna know till those rulings come because we are not going to be able to observe his behavior any longer in the courtroom .

 

[Tucarra]

To me the term "snapped" doesn't necessarily mean sudden impulse. It could mean he cracked/snapped months ago or even years ago and his symptoms deteriorated without proper treatment (IF he is mentally ill - schizophrenia as an example).

It appears everything was "normal" up until 4 months ago when he started to purchase all this bomb making stuff, the apparel, etc. Fast forward 2 -3 months, he fails his oral. A month later, he goes on a rampage.

Something happened during that 4 or 5 month period prior to his breakdown or whatever term we want to use.

:moo:

Yes...and I'm not so sure about "normal" but in any societal context, possibly...

But something definitely "happened" that caused a "break" or "shift"...

Easy to surmise the "Oral Test" a 'trigger'....being interviewed 'real-time' is tough, and given his field of study may have been extra 'tough'..?

Regardless...there was something in him that was 'ticking' a long time ago..

 

[Curious Me]

Who wants their name associated with JH? The guy who called him mediocre student appears to be most upset that his name is associated with that of JH, even though it was years ago. So why would his advisor talk, even if it was not against FERPA?

Wouldn't his advisor or school officials be able to be questioned for the investigation? Does FERPA protect all records and they can't ever take down statements from advisors/teachers? I think I'm tired.

 

[scorekeeper]

Wouldn't his advisor or school officials be able to be questioned for the investigation? Does FERPA protect all records and they can't ever take down statements from advisors/teachers? I think I'm tired.

I would think that they would want to assist in the investigation; therefore, yes, talking to LE is totally different than talking to media per University statement and/or gag order.........

I'm tired too!!

Time to head off to bed. :seeya:

 

[February]

Keep in mind that JH was only one year into a program that takes 5 to 7 years. And the first year was mostly coursework. The intensive research phase of the program had not yet begun. So JH's adviser may not have known him as well as he/she would know a student who's further along in the program. JH's adviser might be as baffled by what happened as everyone else. Also, the adviser would be limited in what he/she could say to the media because of FERPA. Also, the university has been advised by law enforcement not to speak about specifics of the suspect or the case. I know everyone is curious to find out as much as possible about JH, but if I were a faculty member, I would stay away from the news media and only speak to law enforcement.

IMO he/she should also have the conscience to at least speak something within the boundaries of the law but it is understandable that she has a job to protect. in fact, if she is willing to talk to the media , it's best to also carry a luniversity lawyer or their own personal lawyer to protect their rights since this is already a sensational case and every words can be twisted IMO...

 

[February]

It is not a waste of air time to talk about MI on this Dr.Drewo show, but NO ONE KNOWS if JH was suffering from anything. He didn't seem to give many hints. Yes, I want to hear from the advisors. Did any of his small group complain to the advisor because that would have to be on record? But I realize we won't be hearing any of this soon. In the meantime, the media is starting to put the slant on their diagnosis as a whole to keep us content there is an answer as to why. "No one was there for him."

I dont know if FERPA will allow a statement from the advisor that he /she tried her best to keep JH in the program I want to know ( and i dont care if anybody else doesnt want to know it is my opinion ) if the University put an EFFORT to keep him on this school at all .

 

[jjenny]

I dont know if FERPA will allow a statement from the advisor that he /she tried her best to keep JH in the program I want to know ( and i dont care if anybody else doesnt want to know it is my opinion ) if the University put an EFFORT to keep him on this school at all .

I am not sure what difference does it make if they did or didn't. They put him on a training grant and thus invested time and money into him (instead of some other person). So normally they don't want the student to quit. But ultimately he is an adult and can do what he wants. I get the impression some people think an advisor should threat a graduate student like a baby, running after him and begging him to stay if he wants to quit. No one is going to do that in real life.

 

[Roxye]

He** no I can never compare her... she is not evil.

That to me is what it comes down to. Even with MI like your daughter's and mine, it comes down to intent. Your daughter is not evil, I am not evil. So to think because of our MI, we could do something like this is just APPALLING!


MI doesn't not equate to the acts JH perpetrated! He 'might' be MI, but just because he was MI, it doesn't mean that he isn't evil.

Your daughter, nor myself, who are both MI are not evil. The thought that either of us could do this type of HORRIFIC act, makes those around us APPALLED that anyone would suggest this man's evil acts could even come close to the reality her and I deal with on a regular basis.

If he gets off because someone thinks his actions are because of MI, then the ENTIRE MI community loses the ground we are trying to gain by saying MOST of us, are struggling hard NOT being this type of human. We WANT to NOT feel like this, we WANT to not be associated with this HORRENDOUS act. WE, as a WHOLE, in the MI community ARE NOT EVIL!

Giving this man this out! This,,,,, oh he's MI!..... disputes EVERYTHING the REAL MI community is trying to do.

Anyone in my shoes would do ANYTHING, just to be NORMAL. This man disputes EVERYTHING we want for ourselves in the MI community!

 

[February]

I am not sure what difference does it make if they did or didn't. They put him on a training grant and thus invested time and money into him (instead of some other person). So normally they don't want the student to quit. But ultimately he is an adult and can do what he wants. I get the impression some people think an advisor should threat a graduate student like a baby, running after him and begging him to stay if he wants to quit. No one is going to do that in real life.

lol Seriously, we are talking about PhD Neuroscience PAID school ... not some high school class or basic college course...Dean Barry Shur said the advisor meets them daily so...wether he knows anything or not, i prefer to listen to anything she/he will have to say - IF ANY.

 

[CARIIS]

Should it become known, that the truth, IMO, is that Unniversity admin and faculity wanted JH OUT of program due to increasingly unique behaviors.

I learned about FERPA here, and many contend that they, (University folk) , were under no obligation and it was illigal to take action should the abovementioned be the actual situation.

It drove me nuts! Haunted me!

Just look at some of the timeline - stable people do not go out and pick assualt weapons, (that are more intense than the army overseas), the day one leaves grad school!

We will never know, - but, maybe if they did the right thing (notify = we have some very serious concerns here) he would have been hospitized, medicated and missed opening night. SHAME ON THEM.

I hope all of them are having sleepless nights and profound anxiety while feeling guility as well.


Forget the part of being a human being, those cowards hide behind FERPA in order to avoid legal stuff (Virginia Tech).$$$$$$$

COWARDS.

Here is what FERPA DOES say:

One threshold point that is often overlooked is that FERPA limits only the disclosure of records and information from records about a student. It does not limit disclosure or discussion of personal observations.

In other words, if a college or university employee develops a concern about a student based on the employee’s observations of or personal interactions with the student, the employee may disclose that concern to anyone without violating, or even implicating, FERPA.
.
****. Even when information is part of a student’s records and therefore covered by FERPA, the law provides several exceptions that permit appropriate communications under circumstances in which the student or others may be at risk of harm[/FONT]In some circumstances, FERPA has been invoked as the reason not to share student information, when in reality the law would permit disclosure

information regarding the results of certain student conduct proceedings involving violence to the general public;Schools also have a duty to warn of known dangers
In some circumstances, FERPA has been invoked as the reason not to share student information, when in reality the law would permit disclosure......information regarding the results of certain student conduct proceedings involving violence to the general public6.
7. http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2007/08/07/ferpa

7. [/COLOR]http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2007/08/07/ferpa


;


]









http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2007/08/07/ferpa[/COLOR]

 

[Roxye]

CARIIS, I think you are stretching liability with the university.

If he, until this inductance, was a model student..... How are they liable?

 

[emeraldeyes85]

Should it become known, that the truth, IMO, is that Unniversity admin and faculity wanted JH OUT of program due to increasingly unique behaviors.

I learned about FERPA here, and many contend that they, (University folk) , were under no obligation and it was illigal to take action should the abovementioned be the actual situation.

It drove me nuts! Haunted me!

Just look at some of the timeline - stable people do not go out and pick assualt weapons, (that are more intense than the army overseas), the day one leaves grad school!

We will never know, - but, maybe if they did the right thing (notify = we have some very serious concerns here) he would have been hospitized, medicated and missed opening night. SHAME ON THEM.

I hope all of them are having sleepless nights and profound anxiety while feeling guility as well.


Forget the part of being a human being, those cowards hide behind FERPA in order to avoid legal stuff (Virginia Tech).$$$$$$$

COWARDS.

Here is what FERPA DOES say:

One threshold point that is often overlooked is that FERPA limits only the disclosure of records and information from records about a student. It does not limit disclosure or discussion of personal observations.

In other words, if a college or university employee develops a concern about a student based on the employee’s observations of or personal interactions with the student, the employee may disclose that concern to anyone without violating, or even implicating, FERPA.
.
****. Even when information is part of a student’s records and therefore covered by FERPA, the law provides several exceptions that permit appropriate communications under circumstances in which the student or others may be at risk of harm[/FONT]In some circumstances, FERPA has been invoked as the reason not to share student information, when in reality the law would permit disclosure

information regarding the results of certain student conduct proceedings involving violence to the general public;Schools also have a duty to warn of known dangers
In some circumstances, FERPA has been invoked as the reason not to share student information, when in reality the law would permit disclosure......information regarding the results of certain student conduct proceedings involving violence to the general public6.
7. http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2007/08/07/ferpa

7. [/COLOR]http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2007/08/07/ferpa


;


]









http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2007/08/07/ferpa[/COLOR]

You have to understand that he didnt do anything illegal, he bought the guns legally and passed a federal background check in order to get them, all legal. The school had no way of knowing he was buying guns or tactical gear and they had no reason to call the police to check him out he wasnt breaking any laws and while we all, looking at the whole picture from the comforts of our homes after the fact, can clearly see some strange behavior when it is all added up together, the people around him didnt have the ability to see it all as one big picture with all the suspicious behavior connected, they saw bits and pieces only making it impossible for them to know he was going to do something like this.

You just cant go around sticking your nose in people's business like that and calling the cops for every little thing, it is not right and it is not fair to those of us who arent doing anything wrong but because we are a little different everyone is on the phone calling 911 to have us investigated because we have pink hair.

All due respect my friend but you really need to think about this and what the long term consequences are of living in a society with a bunch of tattletales watching everything we do and reporting us to the police for anything they think isnt "normal."

The fact is nothing could have been done to prevent this and nothing can be done to prevent it from happening again, it is the world we live in, and as sad as it is and as much as it sucks it is no worse than the mass murder going on in Pakistan/Afghanistan and Iraq everyday through the use of unmanned drones that are being used to kill untold thousands of innocent people who have done nothing wrong.

It is the world we live in and unless you want to give up your civil liberties so the cops can just snoop on you whenever they get the fancy, then you just have to accept it and do what you can to protect yourself and your loved ones.

It sucks, dont get me wrong but I dont want to live in a nanny state.

 

[CARIIS]

Yes...and I'm not so sure about "normal" but in any societal context, possibly...

But something definitely "happened" that caused a "break" or "shift"...

Easy to surmise the "Oral Test" a 'trigger'....being interviewed 'real-time' is tough, and given his field of study may have been extra 'tough'..?

Regardless...there was something in him that was 'ticking' a long time ago..

Since embryo!

 

[CARIIS]

This link we've seen before has good pics and videos about JH's background, as well as the guns he bought.


http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_new...olmes-camp-counselor-for-underprivileged-kids

Photos of James Holmes, camp counselor for underprivileged kids
"It is sickening," the fellow counselor said, "knowing that he killed kids the same age that he once cared for."

OH my god! I may be mistaken but watching this video -- I saw a banner on the apt building advertising unit avail !

I do not think that was there 24 hours ago!

I thought, my god the whole world knows, ya all got , at least one unit vacant ;and he is not coming back ---------god could ya wait a week!

 

[February]

CARIIS, I think you are stretching liability with the university.

If he, until this inductance, was a model student..... How are they liable?

IF foxnews is right that the mail /package JH sent to a psychiatrist is sitting on the mail room for a week before the crime... i will possibly hear Lawsuits

IF JH failed in that Oral Exam that cause his depression and mental illnesses and he isnt really supposed to fail.... Yaiks, i hear a bigger Lawsuits.

We dont have complete facts for now and so the above could be wrong so all of these are just some theory on how could they be liable possibly......For now, am just wondering what Media is also after since they want record of his emails at that University.

 

[shadowraiths]

this will not go to trial.

You may be right. I actually think it will go to trial. Even though from what I've been told, attys generally hate going to trial bc once there, it's somewhat of a crap shoot, so to speak. After all, look at KC & OJ. OJ's case, esp, seemed like a slam dunk. And yet, he was acquitted.

Regardless, I don't see the prosecuting atty offering a plea deal. Not for something of this nature. Nor do I see the defendant asking for a bench trial. He has a much better chance with a jury. Esp if his presentation continues to be as we saw on Monday's brief hearing.

And finally, since this case has less to do with "whodunnit" and more to do with "whyhedunnit," I will not be the least bit surprised if the defense atty goes for an NGRI. Esp, since, from my read, Colorado seems to have a higher success rate wrt such defenses. ( link )

 

[jjenny]

IF foxnews is right that the mail /package JH sent to a psychiatrist is sitting on the mail room for a week before the crime... i will possibly hear Lawsuits

IF JH failed in that Oral Exam that cause his depression and mental illnesses and he isnt really supposed to fail.... Yaiks, i hear a bigger Lawsuits.

We dont have complete facts for now and so the above could be wrong so all of these are just some theory on how could they be liable possibly......

You have got to be kidding. The school is responsible because he failed a test? What in the world does it mean he isn't supposed to fail a test? There are no guarantees that a student isn't going to fail a test.

 

[CARIIS]

That is a neat notion - an angle I never thought about BOTH MI/EVIL!

 

[Curious Me]

Very interesting what it says, CARIIS. I see what you're saying, and if there were outright concerns for the safety of students, others, or himself, yes, that would be upsetting to find out otherwise. Yet, he was very clever to not show his plan to start hurting or killing anyone, IMO. I have to consider maybe he knew right from wrong, but just didn't care because he could always fake being insane.

He says he thought he was the joker, and he probably got his satisfaction in that theater actually killing even children. Come Monday he doesn't seem to have any connection to the joker anymore. What happened to that fixated delusion that went on for months of planning?

 

[February]

You may be right. I actually think it will go to trial. Even though from what I've been told, attys generally hate going to trial bc once there, it's somewhat of a crap shoot, so to speak. After all, look at KC & OJ. OJ's case, esp, seemed like a slam dunk. And yet, he was acquitted.

Regardless, I don't see the prosecuting atty offering a plea deal. Not for something of this nature. Nor do I see the defendant asking for a bench trial. He has a much better chance with a jury. Esp if his presentation continues to be as we saw on Monday's brief hearing.

And finally, since this case has less to do with "whodunnit" and more to do with "whyhedunnit," I will not be the least bit surprised if the defense atty goes for an NGRI. Esp, since, from my read, Colorado seems to have a higher success rate wrt such defenses. ( link )

It's a battle of mind experts whether he is insane or not
This is going to be hard to try but if they go to the jury, emotions will win IMO