ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 6

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neesaki said:
Cases are tried in courts everyday on nothing but circumstantial evidence.
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In the US, yes. In foreign countries.....they have their own rules/regulations/laws. It is different in Aruba. They are more about hard evidence and less about circumstancial. It's just their way of justice. Does not mean is it right or wrong just different than what we are use to. jmo
 
Dushi said:
Opinion only, nothing to say this happened, there is a huge difference between Opinion and Fact
No, there was no other person with them and I am basing that on Fact that we have heard from LE and MSM
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I am wrong, there was a text while they were at the restaurant, it could have been sent from the bathroom

I do appologize for my mistake
 
Originally posted by neesaki - Cases are tried in courts everyday on nothing but circumstantial evidence.
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Dushi said:
Your comment to me was to give you a break, use common sense.
You know, I try to keep an open mind, look at all opinions and scenarios

I think i am done here
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This comment as referenced is about circumstantial evidence, nothing else. I see circumstantial evidence in this case and whoever sees it differently has that right. I apologize if my opinion offends anyone.
 
If the legal system in Aruba totally discounts and disallows circumstantial evidence, this could possibly be an explanation for why this GG chose Aruba to commit his crime. Maybe he knew this .JMO
 
neesaki said:
If the legal system in Aruba totally discounts and disallows circumstantial evidence, this could possibly be an explanation for why this GG chose Aruba to commit his crime. Maybe he knew this .JMO
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That's a good point about why he may have chosen Aruba. If you followed the NH case you would realize Aruba had no clear cut evidence of how NH died or her body to prove she was dead. It could have been an accident and they disposed of her body to hide the fact that she was dead. But we are all aware that Joran was not officially charged because they were not sure what to charge him with (sound familiar?)

I don't think Aruba's legal system "totally" discounts circumstantial evidence. I just think they require something more concrete than we do here in the US. That could change in the future if more "Americans" get the bright idea that Aruba is a good place to get rid of a problem or make some money off a traveling companion. jmo
 
Just heard on Fox news that Jose Baez is going to be in Aruba tomorrow, apparently on behalf of GG. O Lord help us. :mad:
 
LambChop said:
That's a good point about why he may have chosen Aruba. If you followed the NH case you would realize Aruba had no clear cut evidence of how NH died or her body to prove she was dead. It could have been an accident and they disposed of her body to hide the fact that she was dead. But we are all aware that Joran was not officially charged because they were not sure what to charge him with (sound familiar?)

I don't think Aruba's legal system "totally" discounts circumstantial evidence. I just think they require something more concrete than we do here in the US. That could change in the future if more "Americans" get the bright idea that Aruba is a good place to get rid of a problem or make some money off a traveling companion. jmo
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I truly believe that GG had a plan in the beginning, which is why he started purchasing life insurance on his travel companions before this incident. These earlier purchases were a prequel to this event. Either as a potential, "Oh, maybe the right opportunity will come along, and I can off my partner", or, simply as a cover to make it look like it was something he normally did, just so he could commit his crime at a later date. JMO

GG finally decided, after research and hearing about the flawed justice system in Aruba (circumstantial evidence is a no go), that Aruba was his best bet. Which really goes hand in hand with his obsession with the Natalee Holloway case and with his belief that the Aruba justice system would be more "friendly" to his case. Again, JMO.

GG's original plan was unfortunately foiled, however, when he did not find that perfectly private "snorkeling" area. What he found was Baby Beach, which though not a tourist area, was quite liberally inhabited with locals and not that private. Perhaps he had not foreseen that. Maybe this is what then led him to eventually use the rocky beach area as the alleged "snorkeling and drowning" site which was more private, yet not believable by the local authorities and those who knew the area. JMO

Also this search for the perfect site could explain why he returned back to that area of the island the second day, at the same time of day, in order to "check it out"

GG's plan was ultimately foiled again, however, when he found that Robyn had absolutely no desire to go snorkeling. Again, JMO.

IMO, this just further increased the rage that GG held against women. Plus, he had gone this far, had spent all this money to get what he wanted. He was not about to give up that easily. After all, in his mind, women "owe him something". Especially a woman who allowed him to pay for her trip to Aruba, and then betrayed him with her "I love you" texts back to her lover. How dare her, that would certainly not do, not in GG's self-entitled eyes.

Unfortunately, it did not bid well for Robyn, as she still ended up the victim of GG's rage and aggression against women. Again, JMO.
 
neesaki said:
Which really goes hand in hand with his obsession with the Natalee Holloway case and with his belief that the Aruba justice system would be more "friendly" to his case. Again, JMO.
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What obsession? This is the first we are hearing about that, <mod snip>

For someone who you claim has undertaken extensive preparation he appears to have be spectacularly unprepared for his long term "plot". I don't find your theory credible at all, and supported by little of what we know about the facts of the case. If he had the plan you outlined, then he would have been to Aruba multiple times before, he would have ensured that he knew how to snorkle so that the story was credible and he would have gone to a place he was familiar with. He would have undertaken some kind of preparation. None of that appears to be true. So, no plot.

The most likely scenario is that it was a couple of semi-intoxicated holiday-makers who made a poor choice in the water and one of them drowned/got swept out to sea. This sort of thing does happen. The lack of clarity about the details may simply be due to panic and being drunk. I have seen plenty of people in that state, they don't behave in a rational or logical manner so it doesn't seem peculiar to me at all. I don't think it is neccessary to create a byzantine story line to explain something that has a much simpler more obvious explanation.
 
katydid23 said:
Just heard on Fox news that Jose Baez is going to be in Aruba tomorrow, apparently on behalf of GG. O Lord help us. :mad:
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Jose Baez is an attention getting you know what. He'll be there soaking up the glory in GG getting released, there will be pictures, there will be news ... Jose Baez, CA and GG deserve each other but eventually what goes around comes around and when that happens I sure hope Mr. Baez feels the bite taken out of his butt and, I also hope we are all allowed to watch it go down.
 
Tugela said:
What obsession? This is the first we are hearing about that, or is it just your fantasy?

For someone who you claim has undertaken extensive preparation he appears to have be spectacularly unprepared for his long term "plot". I don't find your theory credible at all, and supported by little of what we know about the facts of the case. If he had the plan you outlined, then he would have been to Aruba multiple times before, he would have ensured that he knew how to snorkle so that the story was credible and he would have gone to a place he was familiar with. He would have undertaken some kind of preparation. None of that appears to be true. So, no plot.

The most likely scenario is that it was a couple of semi-intoxicated holiday-makers who made a poor choice in the water and one of them drowned/got swept out to sea. This sort of thing does happen. The lack of clarity about the details may simply be due to panic and being drunk. I have seen plenty of people in that state, they don't behave in a rational or logical manner so it doesn't seem peculiar to me at all. I don't think it is neccessary to create a byzantine story line to explain something that has a much simpler more obvious explanation.
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Explain to me why GG lied to customs when he tried to get out of the country a few days after Robyn went missing then. He told them his friend would be taking another flight. He knew that she was missing but lied anyway.

Innocent people do not have to have a reason to lie.

If anything, he's guilty of involuntary manslaughter even if she did drown. However, I do not think she drowned. JMO.

They just announced on hometown MD news 5 minutes ago that Aruban authorities say that GG's hard drive in his home here in MD was wiped clean before the FBI conviscated it.

There is a way that a forensic IT person can still obtain information off of a hard drive that has been wiped clean ... it's amazing what forensic scientists can do today. If his hard drive at his home was wiped clean before he left ... then what Neesaki feels occurred makes alot more sense than what I have said I think occurred.
 
An American Express spokeswoman, Gail Wasserman, said she could not confirm that Giordano has such a policy but said anyone making such a claim would have to produce documentation such as a death certificate and any police reports. "Then we would make a determination if the claim is payable."

No claim would be paid if it turned out there was fraud or "anything untoward" that would void the policy, she said.

Stein said authorities have been conducting active searches for Gardner's body and last week sent divers and underwater robots to search in the area where Giordano reported her missing. They are also awaiting additional forensic evidence, including an FBI analysis of Giordano's Blackberry.


BBM

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/World/201...ail-aruba-robyn-gardner-disappearance-111129/
 
Giordano is expected to make a quick exit off of the Caribbean island when he is released from jail Tuesday just hours before an appeals hearing that could overturn the decision to free him. His attorney maintains that the 50-year-old Maryland man will comply with any extradition order that arises.

"Should they decide to extradite him, Gary's not going to run from anything," attorney Jose Baez told ABC News. "Gary's not running from anything, he'll come back voluntarily. It's not going to be anything that I think is gonna be a problem."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/gary-giordanos-lawyer-running/story?id=15045376
 
Giordano will leave behind his laptop and Blackberry when he exits the Aruban jail and heads back to the U.S. Investigators tell ABC News that they are just beginning to pore through the computer, as well as Gardner's iPad -- both of which contain tens of thousands of documents that shed light on the relationship the two had -- which Giordano has previously said was almost entirely physical

http://abcnews.go.com/US/gary-giordanos-lawyer-running/story?id=15045376
 
Tugela said:
What obsession? This is the first we are hearing about that, or is it just your fantasy?
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:chillpill: Actually, GG's obsession with NH has been reported several times in the press and has been brought out in this forum as well, so no, it's not my "fantasy".

Here is a link to an article in which the mother of the young model stated that 'He said, "It's not going to be another Natalee Holloway or anything."'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-propositions-learned-women-come-forward.html

This is what another witness reported though I have not had time to go back and find the original article. This is taken from this forum's timeline, also not from my "fantasy" :


Sunday, July 31, late afternoon - I met Robyn and Gary on the beach in front of the Marriott Stellaris Hotel. They had arrived on that day. My husband and I sat and spoke with them for awhile. They asked my husband and I about activities on the island.... Was shocked to see that this had happened, since we just spoke with them last Sunday, late afternoon. I am sure it was Robyn because I commented on her tattoo, indicating that I liked it. Didn't think they went together as a couple, as he was much older. She was also sitting kind of far away from him on the beach chair. She was nice. We were actually discussing the Natalee Holloway case. I will pray for her return.


Take this information and couple it with the fact that GG was seeking out a young blonde woman to go to Aruba with him. Then she mysteriously disappears. None of it has anything to do with my fantasy.

By the way, do you think GG stalking women in a deer mask is a fantasy too?
 
Tugela said:
What obsession? This is the first we are hearing about that, or is it just your fantasy?

For someone who you claim has undertaken extensive preparation he appears to have be spectacularly unprepared for his long term "plot". I don't find your theory credible at all, and supported by little of what we know about the facts of the case. If he had the plan you outlined, then he would have been to Aruba multiple times before, he would have ensured that he knew how to snorkle so that the story was credible and he would have gone to a place he was familiar with. He would have undertaken some kind of preparation. None of that appears to be true. So, no plot.

The most likely scenario is that it was a couple of semi-intoxicated holiday-makers who made a poor choice in the water and one of them drowned/got swept out to sea. This sort of thing does happen. The lack of clarity about the details may simply be due to panic and being drunk. I have seen plenty of people in that state, they don't behave in a rational or logical manner so it doesn't seem peculiar to me at all. I don't think it is neccessary to create a byzantine story line to explain something that has a much simpler more obvious explanation.
Click to expand...


Where is it reported that GG didn't know how to snorkel? I have never heard this before. Could you provide a link?

What makes you think he would have to go to Aruba more than the one time in order to commit a murder?

You're right in that he probably was not as prepared as he should have been, which is why his plan didn't go the way he had planned. For one thing, he didn't foresee Robyn not wanting to snorkel or go in the water.

I believe that what ultimately foiled his plan is that he lost his temper and went into rage mode. Just my :twocents:
 
Montgomery County Judge Stephen Johnson ruled against a mother and daughter in Gaithersburg who had sought a "peace order" against their neighbor. According to Maryland law, judges can issue such civil orders to "order one person to refrain from committing certain acts against others."

The neighbors claimed in a petition that Giordano left dead and live animals, furniture and trash on their lawn over a period of three years. In one instance, for example, they alleged that he left a dead squirrel under the windshield wiper blade of their car.

Court documents show the order was denied, because there was "no statutory basis for relief." The neighbors claim in the petition that they did not know that a peace order must be filed within 30 days of an alleged incident.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/28/world/americas/aruba-missing-woman/index.html?section=cnn_latest
 
Dushi said:
Giordano will leave behind his laptop and Blackberry when he exits the Aruban jail and heads back to the U.S. Investigators tell ABC News that they are just beginning to pore through the computer, as well as Gardner's iPad -- both of which contain tens of thousands of documents that shed light on the relationship the two had -- which Giordano has previously said was almost entirely physical

http://abcnews.go.com/US/gary-giordanos-lawyer-running/story?id=15045376
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bbm

I've been with my husband for almost two decades - and if you checked our computers, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find tens of thousands of documents about our relationship. And we both use our laptops and iPads constantly.

That is a lot.
 
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