ATTENTION: IDI's...please explain.....

[Liadan]

Getting back to the reactions of family when they found Jonbenet. We all react differently when confronted with a difficult situation that is a given. Probably what makes this situation more confounding is that Patsy could probably work a crowd (that is what she was teaching Jonbenet to do with all the pageants). And when they had found Jonbenet there was a crowd!!!! So really there is another dimension to the whole drama. It was a stage, an opportunity for some masterpiece acting whether Patsy knew Jonbenet had been murdered or not it is immaterial because Patsy was centre of attention either way. (Just like she was the centre of attention when she a successful daughter in the pageants - Patsy was the one who had groomed her and responsible for her success.) Beyond gut reactions and sensible protocol this was just another opportunity to play a masterful role!

 

[txsvicki]

I know this has been posted before, but John's behavior was just as strange as Patsy's. He is a take charge sort of man, and he wasn't even demanding that the house and grounds be searched, since the police were standing around doing very little in the house. He sure took charge after the body was found. Also, the friends that they called in was odd, too. An attorney, lawyer, even the preacher. All the people they would need to take care of them.

 

[Jayelles]

Ok

UKGuy is one of my fave posters here, he does seem confusing at times and maybe uses big words (LOL) but is more than happy to try and explain where he's coming from.

I like picking his brain, he thinks of things I wouldn't....I think he has more brain cells than me

Yes, I think UKGuy seems like an intelligent, educated person UK might well stand for Universal Knowledge.

 

[intuitive]

I’m relatively new to this site. I’ve just begun to climb the mountain of information on this case. I have some questions that have probably been covered on these threads. I would really appreciate some insight if you have it. Some of the items on the evidentiary list, ligature rope from back yard, ligature string white, from shed, clothing, and earring found in street. The cord that was used on the garrote was not found anywhere else on the property. What was with the “clothing and earring found in street? If I shouldn't be asking this on this site, please direct me (and be kind).:blushing:

 

[narlacat]

I’m relatively new to this site. I’ve just begun to climb the mountain of information on this case. I have some questions that have probably been covered on these threads. I would really appreciate some insight if you have it. Some of the items on the evidentiary list, ligature rope from back yard, ligature string white, from shed, clothing, and earring found in street. The cord that was used on the garrote was not found anywhere else on the property. What was with the “clothing and earring found in street? If I shouldn't be asking this on this site, please direct me (and be kind).:blushing:

Hi Intuitive

You seem a bit mixed up, let me help..........lol

Noone knows where the ligature rope comes from....and how you do mean ligature string white from shed..what shed??

As I recall there was no clothing found in the street and the earring was inconsequential.

You are in the right place

 

[Ames]

You are welcome Ames...great thread by the way.

John did search the outside of the house, at least the alley. He didn't see anyone in the van....apparently kidnapping monitoring foreign faction people are incapable of ducking down and out of sight from their victims...you know what can you expect from people who plan a kidnapping and forget the ransom note, paint brush and worse yet the kidnapping victim...

Thanks!

"...apparently kidnapping monitoring foreign faction people are incapable of ducking down and out of sight from their victims..." HA HA HA HA....good one. Obviously those monitoring foreign faction people, were just not as smart as some of the other monitoring foreign faction people....they must have been the dumb ones in the bunch.

 

[Ames]

What bothers me is that we all (on both sides of the aisle) grasp onto bits and pieces of so-called facts, when all they are is hearsay. I heard that Patsy had to be held back by her friends because she was determined to get to JonBenet.

As for the fibers, have you ever heard of transferrence? Patsy was wearing the red and black sweater when she put JB to bed. Fibers could easily have transferred from her to JB or the blanket or whatever and from there to the tape. Also, why were there ony red fibers and no black ones if they were from Patsy's Christmas sweater?

We all seem to be guilty of overlooking any facts that don't agree with our view of what happened.

IMO the foreign dna under JB's fingernails and in her panties trumps fibers under the masking tape.

Alexi

No, she wasn't HELD BACK...she was PULLED by her friends down the hallway.

 

[Ames]

Ok

UKGuy is one of my fave posters here, he does seem confusing at times and maybe uses big words (LOL) but is more than happy to try and explain where he's coming from.

I like picking his brain, he thinks of things I wouldn't....I think he has more brain cells than me

UKGuy happens to be one of my favorite posters here too. He seems extremely smart. There was more read into my comment than their should have been....it was taken way, WAY overboard....and blown completely our of proportion.

 

[Ames]

Getting back to the reactions of family when they found Jonbenet. We all react differently when confronted with a difficult situation that is a given. Probably what makes this situation more confounding is that Patsy could probably work a crowd (that is what she was teaching Jonbenet to do with all the pageants). And when they had found Jonbenet there was a crowd!!!! So really there is another dimension to the whole drama. It was a stage, an opportunity for some masterpiece acting whether Patsy knew Jonbenet had been murdered or not it is immaterial because Patsy was centre of attention either way. (Just like she was the centre of attention when she a successful daughter in the pageants - Patsy was the one who had groomed her and responsible for her success.) Beyond gut reactions and sensible protocol this was just another opportunity to play a masterful role!

Agreed! I had a friend years ago, that was in beauty pageants.....she was beautiful (I say WAS, because her boyfriend shot her IN THE FACE and killed her about four years ago).....anyway.....She had over 200 trophies...she never EVER lost a pageant. After she got married, I went over to her new house, and didn't see any of the trophies there....so, I said..."Where are your 200 trophies?" And she said, "OH, I left them over at my parents house, because they belong to my MOTHER anyway". Her mom had pushed, and pushed her into the pageants...and she had Patsy's personality (what I KNOW of Patsy's personality). Her mother was living her life through her....which is what Patsy was doing with JB. Even though Patsy had won pageants when she was younger, she didn't want it to end....so the winning FOR HER continued with JB. IMO

 

[coloradokares]

Agreed! I had a friend years ago, that was in beauty pageants.....she was beautiful (I say WAS, because her boyfriend shot her IN THE FACE and killed her about four years ago).....anyway.....She had over 200 trophies...she never EVER lost a pageant. After she got married, I went over to her new house, and didn't see any of the trophies there....so, I said..."Where are your 200 trophies?" And she said, "OH, I left them over at my parents house, because they belong to my MOTHER anyway". Her mom had pushed, and pushed her into the pageants...and she had Patsy's personality (what I KNOW of Patsy's personality). Her mother was living her life through her....which is what Patsy was doing with JB. Even though Patsy had won pageants when she was younger, she didn't want it to end....so the winning FOR HER continued with JB. IMO

In any fair analysis we cannot leave out Nedra and her passion for the pageants. Her two daughters were there long before JonBenet. Someone posted here a short while back a piece where Nedra was asked had JonBenet not wanted to do pageants ......Nedra says that wouldn't have been allowed. Just as matter of fact as that. So Patsy it seems at least was at least in part a product of her own upbringing as well.

 

[Ames]

In any fair analysis we cannot leave out Nedra and her passion for the pageants. Her two daughters were there long before JonBenet. Someone posted here a short while back a piece where Nedra was asked had JonBenet not wanted to do pageants ......Nedra says that wouldn't have been allowed. Just as matter of fact as that. So Patsy it seems at least was at least in part a product of her own upbringing as well.

Yep, I forgot about Nedra....how could I forget about HER? Poor JB, she really didn't have a chance. I suspect that JB was getting a little bit sick and tired of those pageants...just like my friend did....but Patsy and Nedra kept pushing her to do them, could this have been the reason that someone saw JB kick Patsy at one of the pageants?

 

[coloradokares]

Yep, I forgot about Nedra....how could I forget about HER? Poor JB, she really didn't have a chance. I suspect that JB was getting a little bit sick and tired of those pageants...just like my friend did....but Patsy and Nedra kept pushing her to do them, could this have been the reason that someone saw JB kick Patsy at one of the pageants?

Yes I believe she was. One reason maybe she didn't like MY Twin Doll. Truthfully I think it went much further than not likeing pageants. She said she didn't feel pretty anymore a few days before...the underwear in the drawers that Holly Smith talked about in the my fox link in interview with Julie Hayden. The wetting the soiling. Which are known signs of sexual abuse. The bathroom screaming issues. pathetic sad ..........JMHO

 

[Ames]

Yes I believe she was. One reason maybe she didn't like MY Twin Doll. Truthfully I think it went much further than not likeing pageants. She said she didn't feel pretty anymore a few days before...the underwear in the drawers that Holly Smith talked about in the my fox link in interview with Julie Hayden. The wetting the soiling. Which are known signs of sexual abuse. The bathroom screaming issues. pathetic sad ..........JMHO

I believe that she was being sexually abused. I just don't know by whom....I am leaning more toward JOHN....and as sick as it is....Patsy could have been involved too. A friend of mine, has a friend that was sexually abused by BOTH parents. So, it DOES happen....sick, sick, sick.....I think that Patsy was probably sexually abused too....by possibly HER dad...as a child. Maybe thats why she had such a harsh personality.

 

[rashomon]

As for the fibers, have you ever heard of transferrence?

But that's exacly what it was: transference. But no innocent transference, for these fibers were found in very incriminating locations: in the wrappings of the garrote handle, in the paint tray and on the duct tape. And Occam's razor applied tells us that a person wearing Patsy's jacket came into contact with all these objects on that fatal night.

Also, why were there ony red fibers and no black ones if they were from Patsy's Christmas sweater?

You are confusing the red sweater Patsy was wearing with Patsy's red and black jacket of which fibers were found. That the jacket was red and black doesn't imply that in case of shedding both red and black fibers will to be found. In that case, it was a piece of clothing with mixed fibers, and the red ones seem to have shed more easily than those in black.

IMO the foreign dna under JB's fingernails and in her panties trumps fibers under the masking tape.We all seem to be guilty of overlooking any facts that don't agree with our view of what happened.

IMO the foreign dna under JB's fingernails and in her panties trumps fibers under the masking tape.

You have done exactly what you reproach others with doing, for you have left out one the most incriminating pieces of evidence: the ransom note. You have to build in that note into your theory, not just focus on what suits your scenario. So you believe Patsy Ramsey wrote the note to cover up for the perp who left his 'foreign DNA' in her underwear?
Dr. Henry Lee btw also found foreign DNA in a similar set of packaged underwear, which led him to state that the JBR case is "no DNA case".

 

[Show Me]

Agreed! I had a friend years ago, that was in beauty pageants.....she was beautiful (I say WAS, because her boyfriend shot her IN THE FACE and killed her about four years ago).....anyway.....She had over 200 trophies...she never EVER lost a pageant. After she got married, I went over to her new house, and didn't see any of the trophies there....so, I said..."Where are your 200 trophies?" And she said, "OH, I left them over at my parents house, because they belong to my MOTHER anyway". Her mom had pushed, and pushed her into the pageants...and she had Patsy's personality (what I KNOW of Patsy's personality). Her mother was living her life through her....which is what Patsy was doing with JB. Even though Patsy had won pageants when she was younger, she didn't want it to end....so the winning FOR HER continued with JB. IMO

How awful...glad she got away from domineering mom.

Patsy definetly pushed JonBenet....little girls love dressing up and playing. I think JonBenet had had enough.

JonBenets schedule....
school
church
getting hair styled
manicures
dancing lessons
french lessons
violin lessons
costume fittings
make up
rehearsals
pageants
school performances

an awful lot for a six year old, when can you fit play and just being a little kid into the schedule?

 

[Nuisanceposter]

JonBenets schedule....
school
church
getting hair styled
manicures
dancing lessons
french lessons
violin lessons
costume fittings
make up
rehearsals
pageants
school performances

A very succinct list. The only thing I would add is being featured on floats in parades, sometimes having to perform on said float, regardless of the weather (which couldn't be good for a child with a history of respiratory problems like JonBenet had.)

Former housekeeper Linda Wilcox said JonBenet's schedule was full like that daily from age 3 on. Just when did JonBenet have time to do anything other than work her little butt off to fulfill Patsy's dreams and aspirations for her?

 

[Solace]

Ok


UKGuy is one of my fave posters here, he does seem confusing at times and maybe uses big words (LOL) but is more than happy to try and explain where he's coming from.

I like picking his brain, he thinks of things I wouldn't....I think he has more brain cells than me

I don't think he has more brain cells than you.

 

[Ames]

How awful...glad she got away from domineering mom.

Patsy definetly pushed JonBenet....little girls love dressing up and playing. I think JonBenet had had enough.

JonBenets schedule....
school
church
getting hair styled
manicures
dancing lessons
french lessons
violin lessons
costume fittings
make up
rehearsals
pageants
school performances

an awful lot for a six year old, when can you fit play and just being a little kid into the schedule?

LOL..being a piano teacher...I noticed that you left out PIANO LESSONS. If you saw the last "48 Hour" special with the Ramsey's...they showed some never before seen footage of Patsy playing the last piece of Piano music that JB had learned. The piece was difficult for a six year old....so that tells me that she had to have been taking piano for at least two years, and that would have put her around 4 years old when she started. Sometimes students start by age 3, but alot of piano teachers will not take them that early (me included), because they have NO attention span at that age. The youngest that I would take is 5 year olds.

 

[Alexi]

You're a little confused. her sweater was completely red, not red and black.

As for transference, yeah to the tape. What about the cord itself?

No confusion here (at least on the sweater Check out the pic of the sweater Patsy wore to the Whites. It is red and black over a red turtleneck.

Anything in the basement is subject to transferrence because Patsy and John both interacted with JonBenet carrying her upstairs, putting her to bed, etc. Even if the Ramseys are guilty, fiber evidence would be of little if any use in a conviction.

What we need to look at is what should NOT be there if the Ramseys are guilty (foreign dna, HiTec boot print, palm print, etc.)

Also, another interesting thing that just came out on an A&E program - they found fibers from the rope JonBenet was bound with in her bed. Doubt the parents would need to tie their daughter up to get her out of bed.

 

[Alexi]

But that's exacly what it was: transference. But no innocent transference, for these fibers were found in very incriminating locations: in the wrappings of the garrote handle, in the paint tray and on the duct tape. And Occam's razor applied tells us that a person wearing Patsy's jacket came into contact with all these objects on that fatal night.
You are confusing the red sweater Patsy was wearing with Patsy's red and black jacket of which fibers were found. That the jacket was red and black doesn't imply that in case of shedding both red and black fibers will to be found. In that case, it was a piece of clothing with mixed fibers, and the red ones seem to have shed more easily than those in black.
You have done exactly what you reproach others with doing, for you have left out one the most incriminating pieces of evidence: the ransom note. You have to build in that note into your theory, not just focus on what suits your scenario. So you believe Patsy Ramsey wrote the note to cover up for the perp who left his 'foreign DNA' in her underwear?
Dr. Henry Lee btw also found foreign DNA in a similar set of packaged underwear, which led him to state that the JBR case is "no DNA case".

rashomon-
As I said in my other response, the sweater I am talking about was the one Patsy was photographed in at the White's party.

As for the note, I have considered it, and for a long time, I wondered if Patsy wrote it. It would take a lot to go into why here, but I have discounted her as the author.

The other thing I haven't quite worked through is the pineapple.

So, we know for a fact that the underwear was brand new in a package? Washing would surely take out any factory dna, and I find it difficult to believe that someone sneezing or sweating onto a pair of panties at a factory would leave enough dna for it to be found mixed with JB's blood in her panties and under her fingernails.

Sorry, I lost faith in Dr. Lee after the OJS trial. He seems to look at the evidence in light of whichever side is is representing. I imagine he would have had a different opinion if the Ramsey's had hired him first.