AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #8

[plongi]

If you listen and watch he actually says it a few times .. not once. Watch the movie .. scroll down.
What it means is another story

The word 'accounts' is used in only one paragraph and could have been journalistic error. As far as I am aware, there has only ever been one account related to Karlie. Below is a paragraph, also from this article, which seems more factual re an account.

"In respect to what we know about the suspects involved in the financial aspects of the bank account transactions, Centrelink fraud and the use of the phone, I can say that we know that at least one offender was a male. There may have been more, and at least two are females. BBM

 

[JaneSA]

The ABN was active from 1/01/2011 Welfare Payments ceased 'early 2011'

From that I take it that the ABN was set up prior to payments being stopped.

That in itself is intriguing.
Sounds as if the idea of setting up the ABN came over the Christmas / New Year break.
Does that strike anyone else as odd timing?

 

[Trooper]

Holdom's attraction to ABN's are what most people's attraction is. You get one because you can. You hope to have an occasion to use it at some time down the track. ... He is entitled to get one in his own name, but it gets murkier when he does it in Karlie's name.. no matter what he calls it. Right there, he has dropped into illegal, dodgy and murky. There is only one reason to create an ABN in another persons name, a dead persons name, who 's death is known only to one person, perhaps two, and use that dead persons ID papers that you happen to have handy., . one reason only. A scam.


And until that dead person's death is known the scam is viable. .. . the connection , I think , is this . Des Bray says that someone's wages were put into Karlie's account.. it didn't just have the Gov. Payment deposited.

This and the deposits stopping, the Gov. Payments stopping in 2011 , ( but I don't know if the wage deposits stopped then..as far as I can tell they kept going because no one has said any different) meant the ABN is connected to the WAGE deposits going in to Karlie' account, there just wasn't enough wages to attract the rebate. So the ABN is inactive, still is, as far as can tell.

But it is an illegal ABN as much as Karlie's account is illegal from the moment she is murdered.

 

[Puggle]

The only other advantage I can see for DH to have an ABN is to purchase a vehicle. If you have an ABN you can get a fleet discount, which could be few thousand dollars. Some other discounts can be obtained like building materials etc, but I can't see DH doing much in the way of building.

I find the timing interesting though - Visit to Centrelink Dec 2010 - ABN January 2011 - Centrelink stops a short while later - DH and HP leave Hillbank shortly after that. Seems everything was falling apart.

Thanks for the correction on those dates up above.

I'm not sure ..... maybe Centrelink had advised them when they would be cutting off *Karlie's* payments.

I've received letters from them where they give a breakdown of dates and what the payments will be into the future...???

 

[JaneSA]

The word 'accounts' is used in only one paragraph and could have been journalistic error. As far as I am aware, there has only ever been one account related to Karlie. Below is a paragraph, also from this article, which seems more factual re an account.

"In respect to what we know about the suspects involved in the financial aspects of the bank account transactions, Centrelink fraud and the use of the phone, I can say that we know that at least one offender was a male. There may have been more, and at least two are females. BBM

Possibly several accounts within a single credit union membership.
You can have multiple savings, credit, loan and investment accounts under a single membership.

 

[plongi]

Yep
This is the telling address to the media.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-...dentity-stolen-phone-used-after-death/6888638

even though this is a report from back in October, Des Bray has not resiled, or changed his focus since then.. he , apparently , is still narrowed down to these locations..'"Those suspects either resided at, or are associated with or were listed in connection with, properties at Davoren Park, Hillbank, Holden Hill and Charnwood in Canberra."


So it is rational to confine one's theories re suspects to them residing at times in these locations. Des Bray has, and no one has any reason not to, unless other information trumps it.. The theory proposed is therefore not just two women, using wheelchairs , unconnected, but two women from Davoren Park and Holden Hill or Hillbank on the same mission. At the same time.

I feel compassion for everyone apart from someone in a wheelchair in Davoren Park.. if it's good enough for Des Bray it's fine by me.. to spread this suspicion around to every woman in a wheel chair, apart from Hazel, as an accomplice, is just plain mean, in my opinion.

Another woman impersonating Hazel impersonating Karlie.. ... this requires an affectation for complication that presupposes a 2nd woman, in a wheelchair, not just impersonating Hazel, but residing in Davoren Park, Hillbank at some stage, and Holden Park. This mystery wheelchair bound woman ( or wheelchair hiring woman ) would not only be impersonating Hazel, but has also lived in every place Hazel has lived in, and moved to the next place Hazel has.. you can see how this scenario has now become afflicted with fuzzy thinking to an extreme.

 

[sleepinoz]

That in itself is intriguing.
Sounds as if the idea of setting up the ABN came over the Christmas / New Year break.
Does that strike anyone else as odd timing?

Or directly after the Centrelink appointment.

It's possible that Centrelink said now that Khandalyce is going to school you need to get a job. We have a job for you but you will need an ABN. Centrelink could even have helped with the paperwork.

Just on the 2 women - my thinking is that in the visit to the bank HP was indeed in a wheelchair. The later visit to Centrelink she was wearing her prosthesis.

IMO the Police said 2 women because at that stage of the investigation they only knew about the differences in the women. I believe they are one and the same.

 

[JaneSA]

Fits your timeline.
Seeing an identikit wouldnt be a very comfortable feeling

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...n-hazel-passmore/story-fni6uo1m-1227587103274

Aug. 2010: The remains of a young woman were found by a group of trail bike riders in Belanglo State Forest in NSW. The woman’s time of death is determined to have been anywhere from six months to 10 years prior. A distinctive T-shirt with Angelic motif found with the remains prompts the victim to be known as ‘Angel’.
Dec. 2011: Her remains are still unidentified and a computer-generated image of the face is released.

Yes, that could certainly have been a trigger.
It's hard to put yourself in the killer's shoes, but I imagine the crime is already very haunting. Then to see that face again in a sketch in the media; it must be alarming.

Mind you, I personally never thought the sketch was very good. I was not surprised the relatives failed to identify Karlie from it. So maybe the killer breathed more a sigh of relief when they saw it.

 

[SouthAussie]

I have to agree with that.
It's a strictly cash economy.

Maybe the setting up of the ABN was nothing more than another "sign of life" attempt.

I wonder if your tax needs to be up to date to set up an ABN - anyone know?

Even though, on paper, it may appear that for 3 years after her death, Karlie's only financial support was Centrelink, would tax returns have been required?

Also, If no tax returns were lodged in Karlie's name for 3 years, could that be what triggered the request for an interview from Centrelink?

BBM: Yes, I think it could have been exactly that. A sign of life attempt. They could have been getting very twitchy. An unidentified Karlie had been discovered - how long did they have before someone knocked on their door? - had someone already knocked on their door? - they needed to make Karlie go away somewhere ….. set up an ABN for her and have Karlie go for a mining subcontractor job ‘somewhere’ out bush? Having worked for a mining company before, Holdom's head may have easily gone to a 'solution' such as this.


Oh ... and no tax returns are req'd for an ABN. But your tax file number is req'd. And Centrelink recipients don't have to file a tax return if their annual income is less than the low-income threshold.

 

[KG1]

I have to agree with that.
It's a strictly cash economy.

Maybe the setting up of the ABN was nothing more than another "sign of life" attempt.

I wonder if your tax needs to be up to date to set up an ABN - anyone know?

Even though, on paper, it may appear that for 3 years after her death, Karlie's only financial support was Centrelink, would tax returns have been required?

Also, If no tax returns were lodged in Karlie's name for 3 years, could that be what triggered the request for an interview from Centrelink?

Centrelink benefit only becomes part of Taxable Income if there is other income earned in the financial year, such as if one also had a part - time job. Then the Centrelink income and the job income is lumped together and assessed. However, some parts of the Centrelink income for children is not taxable when other income is earned, but I am no longer familiar with that. I don't think Child Care reimbursements or maybe even Family Tax Benefit, Parts A & B are taxable amounts. Also any Child Support is not taxable. Non lodgement of Income tax returns would not stop one obtaining an ABN. It may be mentioned if applying for ABN on the phone, or a letter may be sent if applying otherwise, but it would not be a barrier to applying for and obtaining an ABN. Hope this assists.

 

[visioneye]

Brown is for a straighter route to Southern Adelaide..green to continue through to Northern Adelaide and is Blue a viable alternative to Southern Adelaide.

Which way through Wynarka travelling from Canberra or from up North.
Anyone drive these roads.

I drive Adelaide to Canberra about twice a year and live in central Adelaide. I have always used the A20 heading north through Renmark, and this is what the GPS recommends. The northern expressway (which only opened in September 2010) has made this clearly the easiest route for me. However the more southern routes would definitely appeal if I lived south of the city or in Adelaide Hills region.

 

[KG1]

If you listen and watch he actually says it a few times .. not once. Watch the movie .. scroll down.
What it means is another story

I didn't have access to the movie - just read the text. (Old browser).

 

[Trooper]

Or directly after the Centrelink appointment.

It's possible that Centrelink said now that Khandalyce is going to school you need to get a job. We have a job for you but you will need an ABN. Centrelink could even have helped with the paperwork.

Just on the 2 women - my thinking is that in the visit to the bank HP was indeed in a wheelchair. The later visit to Centrelink she was wearing her prosthesis.

IMO the Police said 2 women because as that stage of the investigation they only knew about the differences in the women. I believe they are one and the same.

It has always been clear to me that Des Bray is saying, both these events were performed by a woman. Therefore, legally correct, he says, at least two women because he cant say it was the one woman at this time, but the inference is there, plain as day. What Des is underlining is, a woman accomplice.

 

[plongi]

re : Davoren Park, Hillbank, or Holden Hill if I was heading to these northern suburbs the A20 then.
thanks very helpful

I drive Adelaide to Canberra about twice a year and live in central Adelaide. I have always used the A20 heading north through Renmark, and this is what the GPS recommends. The northern expressway (which only opened in September 2010) has made this clearly the easiest route for me. However the more southern routes would definitely appeal if I lived south of the city or in Adelaide Hills region.

 

[KG1]

BBM: Yes, I think it could have been exactly that. A sign of life attempt. They could have been getting very twitchy. An unidentified Karlie had been discovered - how long did they have before someone knocked on their door? - had someone already knocked on their door? - they needed to make Karlie go away somewhere ….. set up an ABN for her and have Karlie go for a mining subcontractor job ‘somewhere’ out bush? Having worked for a mining company before, Holdom's head may have easily gone to a 'solution' such as this.


Oh ... and no tax returns are req'd for an ABN. But your tax file number is req'd. And Centrelink recipients don't have to file a tax return if their annual income is less than the low-income threshold.

I wonder what address was used for the ABN? And who actually lived at that address? Hmm.

 

[Bohemian]

But it was set up after the centre link money had ceased .... Mmmm maybe just simply hiding income.???

Puggle, idea forming in my mind about the connection between two credit union accounts, visit to credit union, different forms of income, compulsory Centrelink interview, more than one fraudster, and the ABN's trading and entity names. Need to let the cogs turn at their own pace though. When they click into place I'll post again.

 

[Trooper]

Enough of Hazel, and the pervasive and persistant program over months now of trying to spin Hazel into some combination of Mother Theresa and Rosie Batty. A great deal of effort into spinning what is, and what isn't.

Hazel is a suspect. (fact) Hazel is currently under caution from the SA police ( fact) Hazel is a paraplegic ( fact) Hazel at one time had a prosthetic leg, because she is also an amputee , and this false leg was left behind at her home in Hillbank when she left it abruptly ( fact ).. ..There have been no mentioned sightings or suggestions from the Task Force of a 2nd woman paraplegic in a wheelchair who also lives where Hazel lives now, and oddly , lived where Hazel did before ( fact ) ..there is no second woman , in a wheelchair ,who is currently under caution by the SA police ( fact ) The SA police have not at any time stated they have questioned any other woman in a wheelchair , (fact) . now its arguing over whether she has one leg or two. for petes sake. get a grip.

Soon there will be whispers of her not being paraplegic, or an amputee, and then her kids wont be killed in the MVA and then Holdom wont have been the driver and then Karlie wont be dead, and neither will Khandalyce.. and the whole thing disappears into the ether.

some reality based stuff, please folks.

 

[Bohemian]

Paraplegia is a spectrum like any other injury or disease:

"Complete" and "incomplete" spinal cord injury.

http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/article_0082.shtml

'The clinical term incomplete when applied to spinal cord injury indicates that the patient has some sensory or motor function below the lesion level. As defined recently in the International and American Spinal Injury Association (ASIA) Neurological Classification of Spinal Cord Injury, the term has been given an even more specific meaning, indicating a person with preservation motor or sensory function in the last sacral segment (S4-5).

This definition gets around the problem often encountered in the clinical setting of a patient who has an injury at a given level, some preserved sensation or motor function or several segments, and then no function below that level.

By defining incomplete as having some function at the lowest level of the spinal cord, the definition becomes unambiguous. A more controversial term relates to the word complete when applied to spinal cord injury. By the ASIA definition, a person that does not have preserved sacral sensory or motor function should be complete.

Unfortunately, the term has connotations of complete loss and a finality that is not desirable. Some patients with complete loss of neurological function below the lesion level may still recover several segments, especially when treated shortly after injury."'

___________

A motorbike riding friend had an MVA which resulted in him being 'paralysed' or 'crippled' as has been described although he was an incomplete paraplegic and learnt to walk (and still does).

Another friend had a prosthetic limb and was also an incomplete paraplegic after an MVA. Unfortunately, he passed away as the result of another MVA whilst riding pillion behind an able-bodied rider.

___________

My opinion unless a source is provided or stated as my personal observation.

 

[Wexford]

HI
I meant to post this a few days ago when bank account was being discussed. Probably available elsewhere but if you scroll down there is a vid of an interview with Sup Bray and he say "bank accounts not account" and re the identity of Karlie he states "others" . This one is a very revealing interview I always thought.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-...dentity-stolen-phone-used-after-death/6888638

A credit card is an account...lots of people have a savings and credit card so that could 'account' for "accounts" I guess.

 

[plongi]

I am building up a map with where people lived and where transaction and impersonations took place.
I need help locating a more extensive list of the card use trail.
Purple is living and hospital..Green impersonation and card use.
Already it has a pattern.