AUS - Khandalyce Kiara Pearce (Wynarka) and mum Karlie Pearce-Stevenson (Belanglo) #9

[KG1]

https://www.police.sa.gov.au/police-news/police-live

this link has the Bray briefing to the media re the Arrest for Khandalyce . Right at the end when the questions come is interesting.Question : You have evidence and understanding of how the body ended up in SA .. We believe we have a good understanding of what has happened and that will all come out in due course. Question : do you believe he has had help .. and his answer is ... at this stage he is the only one who has been arrested. Question : "do you believe he dumped her on the side of the Highway .. his answer is a very quiet yes and holds his composure. Not sure but something is missing from him there.
His response on the last question is a bit strange..

Plongi, I don't see anything strange in his answers, When he says 'at this stage', it may well be that there could be charges to be laid against another for 'knowledge' after the events. The rather quiet 'yes' speaks to me of being definite that DJH was the only one to dump the suitcase. MOO

 

[Panda]

Plongi, I don't see anything strange in his answers, When he says 'at this stage', it may well be that there could be charges to be laid against another for 'knowledge' after the events. The rather quiet 'yes' speaks to me of being definite that DJH was the only one to dump the suitcase. MOO

I agree KG1. He is quite adamant that Holdom was the only one involved in dumping the suitcase.

 

[sosocurious]

https://www.police.sa.gov.au/police-news/police-live

this link has the Bray briefing to the media re the Arrest for Khandalyce . Right at the end when the questions come is interesting.Question : You have evidence and understanding of how the body ended up in SA .. We believe we have a good understanding of what has happened and that will all come out in due course. Question : do you believe he has had help .. and his answer is ... at this stage he is the only one who has been arrested. Question : "do you believe he dumped her on the side of the Highway .. his answer is a very quiet yes and holds his composure. Not sure but something is missing from him there.
His response on the last question is a bit strange..

We will tell you what we can but there are something we are unable to tell you.
Yes no elaboration.
imo

 

[bearbear]

Please post a link to this as I have searched and can't find it. Thanks

The first was Karen Milat, aged 37, who rarely looked at her ex-husband as she recalled four different trips to the Belanglo State Forest with Ivan in 1983. On two occasions he had gone to shoot kangaroos and finished one off by cutting its throat. The other two times they just drove around and had a picnic.
Despite Milat's claims he had never been to the forest, Karen told the court how he seemed to know his way and never used a map. 'Ivan jut liked guns,' the woman now under witness protection explained. 'Ivan knew how to handle them and was confident about handling guns.' She also confirmed that Ivan was known by many aliases, including Bargo Bill.

http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m/milat-ivan.htm

 

[1968]

Oh plongi that is so true! That tiny darling's bones(especially when scattered) would have been as fine as a little bird's :'( It is so unthinkable to most people that anyone could ignore anything like the suitcase once they had (hypothetically) realised that it was not just a bundle of weathered and deteriorated children's clothing, but even the eventual reporting person appears to have waited several days. I guess you had to be there

I think the reason is , everyone has been a so shocked and sickened by this case.
The sheer disbelief that people feel when they think this could happen. A small child, barely more than an infant, just stuffed in a suitcase, and dumped in the bush.
Maybe the people who found and rummaged through the case did not ever for a single moment think, that the small white objects tangled in with various old clothes could be human bones.
Maybe they thought they were animal bones. Some very weird things are dumped in the bush.....
Now if it was one of us nasty suspicious minded, wanna be detective types, we would have just straight away thought " oh crap. These bones could be human. Someone has murdered someone, looks like a small child, and put them in this suit case. Better ring Crimestoppers."

 

[they'll get you]

The bunch of bones were discovered in luggage at the side of the road by a curious motorist who stopped for a pee.

That person spotted the suitcase suspended in a bush, as if it had been lost from a passing car, and went to take a look.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...uggage-girl-south-australia-death-murder-kill

 

[they'll get you]

The prosecution took three months to make their case. But among all their damning ballistics and forensic evidence it was the testimony of two very different witnesses that probably convinced the jury there could be no reasonable doubt.

The first was Karen Milat, aged 37, who rarely looked at her ex-husband as she recalled four different trips to the Belanglo State Forest with Ivan in 1983. On two occasions he had gone to shoot kangaroos and finished one off by cutting its throat. The other two times they just drove around and had a picnic.

http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m/milat-ivan.htm

This is a good read about the Ivan Milat case.

Thank you Estelle. Unfortunately not too may links are attached to the posts here so it's hard to know what's true and what's a rumour.
Links are helpful and saves the reader having to search the net every time.

 

[JackHigh]

Hi Guys.

I think it was out there the whole time, hidden amongst the undergrowth and stumbled upon by accident.
Decomposition would have been quick out there at that time of the year, its a dry, dusty place and as much as it makes me sick to say it, mother nature would have cleaned up the bones in no time at all.

The reason i say this is that very little effort was made to hide Karlie other than covering her up, why would he hang on to the suitcase containing a murdered child and hide it away for 7 years.
I think he wanted to seperate the two crimes which is why he even brought the suitcase with him to SA. Far enough away from Karlie to remove any possible links should she be found, but before he got to Adelaide and possible detection.
Why Wynarka and not anywhere else in between, because identifying somewhere to discard the mudered body of a 2yo couldnt be an easy task and probably played with his mind for the 12 hours it would have taken to come to that moment in time where he ran out of options.
The final act of simply parting ways with the suitcase was done in the same manner he parted ways with Karlie, simply left it in the bush.

All MOO

 

[Panda]

Hi Guys.

I think it was out there the whole time, hidden amongst the undergrowth and stumbled upon by accident.
Decomposition would have been quick out there at that time of the year, its a dry, dusty place and as much as it makes me sick to say it, mother nature would have cleaned up the bones in no time at all.

The reason i say this is that very little effort was made to hide Karlie other than covering her up, why would he hang on to the suitcase containing a murdered child and hide it away for 7 years.
I think he wanted to seperate the two crimes which is why he even brought the suitcase with him to SA. Far enough away from Karlie to remove any possible links should she be found, but before he got to Adelaide and possible detection.
Why Wynarka and not anywhere else in between, because identifying somewhere to discard the mudered body of a 2yo couldnt be an easy task and probably played with his mind for the 12 hours it would have taken to come to that moment in time where he ran out of options.
The final act of simply parting ways with the suitcase was done in the same manner he parted ways with Karlie, simply left it in the bush.

All MOO

:greetings::wagon:

I think you're exactly right. The main reason people thought of various theories is because it was originally suggested the suitcase had been recently dumped - plus the "suitcase" man in the mix left people with all sorts of scenarios.

The KISS principle usually wins out - the most logical explanation being as you've suggested.

The only other inconsistency I'm now wondering about is whether he had Khandalyce with him at the time he killed Karlie, or whether someone was looking after her whilst he was away with Karlie. My original thought was that Khandalyce was left with a babysitter and killed separately when he got back, but I'm not sure, especially once again, given the inconsistent reports.

 

[crabstick]

The crimes were always going to be in separate state databases to prevent the crime being solved. Keep apart so not to be identified, and the eventual following of the money by police.

All roads lead to China

The question is, did someone go down to Mt Gambier and take the ocean road to Canberra? As clothing label suggested.

:greetings::wagon:

I think you're exactly right. The main reason people thought of various theories is because it was originally suggested the suitcase had been recently dumped - plus the "suitcase" man in the mix left people with all sorts of scenarios.

The KISS principle usually wins out - the most logical explanation being as you've suggested.

The only other inconsistency I'm now wondering about is whether he had Khandalyce with him at the time he killed Karlie, or whether someone was looking after her whilst he was away with Karlie. My original thought was that Khandalyce was left with a babysitter and killed separately when he got back, but I'm not sure, especially once again, given the inconsistent reports.

 

[KG1]

:greetings::wagon:

I think you're exactly right. The main reason people thought of various theories is because it was originally suggested the suitcase had been recently dumped - plus the "suitcase" man in the mix left people with all sorts of scenarios.

The KISS principle usually wins out - the most logical explanation being as you've suggested.

The only other inconsistency I'm now wondering about is whether he had Khandalyce with him at the time he killed Karlie, or whether someone was looking after her whilst he was away with Karlie. My original thought was that Khandalyce was left with a babysitter and killed separately when he got back, but I'm not sure, especially once again, given the inconsistent reports.

I have thought about this too today Panda. I think the sister may have been told some story about DJH meeting/picking up Karlie while she finished packing to go to SA, whilst he took Khandalyce with him to give Karlie space, dropping off excess suitcases to sisters at same time. Karlie was already dead then, and it is a good bet that Khandalyce was in the vehicle in Belanglo when Karlie was killed. He was seen alone with Khandalyce in the few days between the two murders. So I think he just 'cleaned up' and went on his way after dropping off suitcases at sister's house. He has been a loner in his horrific deeds and very cunning, and then shortly after leaving ACT, he killed Khandalyce. I doubt that she was babysat at the time of Karlie's death - he then would have to explain to the sitter as to Karlie's whereabouts. Much better to work alone. MOO

 

[Estelle]

Are we sure that Karlie was murdered in Belanglo or in the Canberra area then the body was taken to Belanglo? I thought I read or heard something that suggested the latter.

 

[Estelle]

Are we sure that Karlie was murdered in Belanglo or in the Canberra area then the body was taken to Belanglo? I thought I read or heard something that suggested the latter.

SA Police Detective Superintendent Des Bray was asked on 891 ABC Adelaide about suggestions Ms Pearce-Stevenson may have been killed elsewhere and dumped at Belanglo as a ruse.

Police also revealed they believed Karlie was killed in or near the Belanglo State Forest in NSW

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-23/police-search-homes-in-sa-canberra-mother-daughter/6879814

 

[1968]

It would seem JaneSA, from what was said when DJH was charged with Khandalyce' murder, that she was killed, sealed in the suitcase and then dumped as she was, within the suitcase, on his way through Wynarka on that same journey to SA. Therefore, the bones would be evident much later, following decomposition, which took place inside the suitcase over however long it takes to occur. Bones were never exposed until the suitcase was opened and then they were disturbed and scattered over time. Likely reason that the bones were 'clean'. They were stored, but only in the suitcase. MOO

The article linked here seems to suggest the bones found at Wynarka were actually quite 'degraded' and that they had immense difficulty extracting a DNA profile.
They were not bleached, so they had not been out in the sun for a long time.
They were not dirty, so they had not been buried.
IMO if the bones were sitting in a suitcase from the time KP met her death, in Dec 2008 - until just shortly before when they were found this year,
(and perhaps emptied out of the case) wouldn't the suitcase serve as kind of a coffin?
insulating the bones from the elements, protecting the body from the effects of insect activity, so the skeleton would have been more or less intact, and as someone else suggested, the clothing would have kept some of the bones together, at least from the chest and back area- so I am a little confused as well....as to how they came to be so degraded.......

http://www.forensic-news.com/forens...se-for-dna-to-assist-in-murder-investigation/

 

[JackHigh]

:greetings::wagon:

I think you're exactly right. The main reason people thought of various theories is because it was originally suggested the suitcase had been recently dumped - plus the "suitcase" man in the mix left people with all sorts of scenarios.

The KISS principle usually wins out - the most logical explanation being as you've suggested.

The only other inconsistency I'm now wondering about is whether he had Khandalyce with him at the time he killed Karlie, or whether someone was looking after her whilst he was away with Karlie. My original thought was that Khandalyce was left with a babysitter and killed separately when he got back, but I'm not sure, especially once again, given the inconsistent reports.

I believe they had her with them when they left Canberra.
One of the things that has bugged me about the case is why Belangelo. Its easy enough to suggest that he was trying to link it with Milat, but there are 15 years between the backpacker murders and this, i dont think he would be stupid enough to think it would be passed off as Ivans work, different MO to begin with, everyone knows Milat stabbed and shot his victims.

In fact i dont think he really cared for the details of avoiding capture by LE, i think his biggest fear was waiting for him back in SA.

So why Belangelo, its completely off the radar of where the $$ trail leads.

Personally i believe it was just a case of heading for Sydney to create an excuse for Karlie leaving Canberra, seeing the forest sign along the way, knowing of its significance and using it as an excuse to get them in there.
Once in there the rest is history.
I dont think he set out to kill Khandalyce, i think he had to kill Karlie to cover his wrong doings and when that was done he struggled with what to do with Khandalyce for the 5 days until his options ran out, he had to be back home for Christmas.
He couldnt take her back to his previous life and Karlie wasnt coming back.

MOO

 

[Estelle]

The crimes were always going to be in separate state databases to prevent the crime being solved. Keep apart so not to be identified, and the eventual following of the money by police.

All roads lead to China

The question is, did someone go down to Mt Gambier and take the ocean road to Canberra? As clothing label suggested.

IMO he would have taken a more direct route than going via road around the coast. eg. Charnwood - Wallaroo - Wynarka

 

[KG1]

The article linked here seems to suggest the bones found at Wynarka were actually quite 'degraded' and that they had immense difficulty extracting a DNA profile.
They were not bleached, so they had not been out in the sun for a long time.
They were not dirty, so they had not been buried.
IMO if the bones were sitting in a suitcase from the time KP met her death, in Dec 2008 - until just shortly before when they were found this year,
(and perhaps emptied out of the case) wouldn't the suitcase serve as kind of a coffin?
insulating the bones from the elements, protecting the body from the effects of insect activity, so the skeleton would have been more or less intact, and as someone else suggested, the clothing would have kept some of the bones together, at least from the chest and back area- so I am a little confused as well....as to how they came to be so degraded.......

http://www.forensic-news.com/forens...se-for-dna-to-assist-in-murder-investigation/

Maybe age and time degrades the bones?

 

[1968]

I believe they had her with them when they left Canberra.
One of the things that has bugged me about the case is why Belangelo. Its easy enough to suggest that he was trying to link it with Milat, but there are 15 years between the backpacker murders and this, i dont think he would be stupid enough to think it would be passed off as Ivans work, different MO to begin with, everyone knows Milat stabbed and shot his victims.

In fact i dont think he really cared for the details of avoiding capture by LE, i think his biggest fear was waiting for him back in SA.

So why Belangelo, its completely off the radar of where the $$ trail leads.

Personally i believe it was just a case of heading for Sydney to create an excuse for Karlie leaving Canberra, seeing the forest sign along the way, knowing of its significance and using it as an excuse to get them in there.
Once in there the rest is history.
I dont think he set out to kill Khandalyce, i think he had to kill Karlie to cover his wrong doings and when that was done he struggled with what to do with Khandalyce for the 5 days until his options ran out, he had to be back home for Christmas.
He couldnt take her back to his previous life and Karlie wasnt coming back.

MOO

I agree Jack. This has to be pretty close. He doesn't seem to be your classic 'power killer' like Milat, who got off on killing. He seems to be more the cowardly type, like the Mornington Monster,
who killed his wife and baby daughter because his wife was pregnant again, and allegedly he was a submissive type who just 'snapped'
Coincidently, in the Sharpe killings, he kills his wife first, then keeps his daughter alive for a few days, before killing her as well.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharpe_family_murders

 

[KG1]

I believe they had her with them when they left Canberra.
One of the things that has bugged me about the case is why Belangelo. Its easy enough to suggest that he was trying to link it with Milat, but there are 15 years between the backpacker murders and this, i dont think he would be stupid enough to think it would be passed off as Ivans work, different MO to begin with, everyone knows Milat stabbed and shot his victims.

In fact i dont think he really cared for the details of avoiding capture by LE, i think his biggest fear was waiting for him back in SA.

So why Belangelo, its completely off the radar of where the $$ trail leads.

Personally i believe it was just a case of heading for Sydney to create an excuse for Karlie leaving Canberra, seeing the forest sign along the way, knowing of its significance and using it as an excuse to get them in there.
Once in there the rest is history.
I dont think he set out to kill Khandalyce, i think he had to kill Karlie to cover his wrong doings and when that was done he struggled with what to do with Khandalyce for the 5 days until his options ran out, he had to be back home for Christmas.
He couldnt take her back to his previous life and Karlie wasnt coming back.

MOO

He had to kill Khandalyce as the child without the mother would raise immediate questions and it would all come undone. No other option in his mind. MOO

 

[1968]

Maybe age and time degrades the bones?

maybe KG, but I am thinking if they were protected by the suitcase, they would have been kind of mummified. In fact the entire fact that there was only bones suggests
maybe her body was not in the suitcase at all? IMO