Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #5 *Arrest*

[investikater]

So I'm a mushroom person and guess what I have never done - eaten foraged mushrooms.

Why? I don't want to eat a mushroom, or feed it to someone I love, and then spend the next 24 hours wracked with anxiety.

I eat mushrooms that I grow myself, or that are Australian FARMED and sold in an Australian supermarket.

I don't get them at markets because at this point I'm unsure what rules they have to follow?
Just a few.months before this i was checking out a local to me grower of exotic mushrooms who sells at markets, and was MORTIFIED to see on their Facebook page, a post about foraging mushrooms while doing delivery runs.
So I did not become a customer.

The main reason for my fear of foraged mushrooms, is that even knowledgable and experienced people get hurt sometimes. Some incidents I recall from over the years:

Party of friends:

The other Death Cap mushroom meal that turned a family dinner toxic

A dinner party for five with a stir fry menu turned toxic for US Customs Service appraiser, John Duncan, and his wife Teresa, with a quirky ingredient saving the host from deadly poisoning.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Professional chef:

Deadly mushrooms cooked by chef for co-workers - BBC News

The death cap mushrooms that killed two people in Australia were prepared by a chef for his co-workers, health officials say.

www.bbc.com

Lifelong forager:

Man dies from eating wild fungi

Man, 82, dies from eating wild mushrooms

www.latimes.com

Mycologist:

Julius Schäffer - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Paxillus involutus - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

^ That's an interesting one because it was considered edible for a long time. Reactions vary by dose and by individual maybe?

I've heard a few people say things like 'the poi was an experienced forager so how could it be an accident?'
I think it could be an accident.
I think a forager for a market could accidentally sell them too.

 

[Oona]

Motive is subjective because someone who kills another person, like a murderer, may not be rational in the same sense that a non-murderer is.

For example, to decide to kill someone in the first place and go through with it, that’s really a divergent and highly inappropriate way of thinking and behaving, and it’s not the way that most people think.

So, to understand the motive of a hypothetical person (not Erin) who is a murderer through the lens and frame of a regular person who does not commit crimes and doesn’t physically hurt others, that can be tricky.

Ahh where’s Xanthe Mallett when I need her? She could explain this so much better; the words allude me.

Imho
Jmo

Yes that is what I was trying to say.

 

[Ellery84]

Yes that is what I was trying to say.

Yeah it’s like the people who commit these types of horrific crimes are working from a different frame of reference to the average person who is not committing major crimes and/or hurting people.

I don’t have the right language to really articulate this as I’m not a criminologist etc.

 

[Lady Bug]

“Ian and Heather were some of the best people I’d ever met. They never did anything wrong to me.”

Every time I read "They never did anything wrong to me" my brain automatically wants to ask "who did?"

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think years ago I did pick and eat the odd mushroom.

I stopped that when it was in the news about death caps and it was said that even experts can mistake them.
That was the first time I'd heard about them, and that people in Australia had died from eating them.

Around that time, after a few days of rain I remember seeing a big flat one on my lawn. I picked it and it looked like an ok one but it didn't have the same smell as any I'd come across before. I put it in the bin.

I love mushrooms but it's not worth risking your life for.

 

[kittythehare]

So I'm a mushroom person and guess what I have never done - eaten foraged mushrooms.

Why? I don't want to eat a mushroom, or feed it to someone I love, and then spend the next 24 hours wracked with anxiety.

I eat mushrooms that I grow myself, or that are Australian grown and sold in an Australian supermarket.

I don't get them at markets because at this point I'm unsure what rules they have to follow?
Just a few.months before this i was checking out a local to me grower of exotic mushrooms who sells at markets, and was MORTIFIED to see on their Facebook page, a post about foraging mushrooms while doing delivery runs.
So I did not become a customer.

The main reason for my fear of foraged mushrooms, is that even knowledgable and experienced people get hurt sometimes. Some incidents I recall from over the years:

Party of friends:

The other Death Cap mushroom meal that turned a family dinner toxic

A dinner party for five with a stir fry menu turned toxic for US Customs Service appraiser, John Duncan, and his wife Teresa, with a quirky ingredient saving the host from deadly poisoning.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Professional chef:

Deadly mushrooms cooked by chef for co-workers - BBC News

The death cap mushrooms that killed two people in Australia were prepared by a chef for his co-workers, health officials say.

www.bbc.com

Lifelong forager:

Man dies from eating wild fungi

Man, 82, dies from eating wild mushrooms

www.latimes.com

Mycologist:

Julius Schäffer - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Paxillus involutus - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

^ That's an interesting one because it was considered edible for a long time. Reactions vary by dose and by individual maybe?

I've heard a few people say things like 'the poi was an experienced forager so how could it be an accident?'
I think it could be an accident.
I think a forager for a market could accidentally sell them too.

Good points.
Tabloid media, who stopped at nothing to caste blame upon her stated that an anonymous source told them that Erin and her family were all avid foragers.
It remains to be seen whether that contained any truth or not.
There are more rumours than facts available .

it depends upon one's choice of sources..

there is no open source credible information suggesting that erin or any of her guests brought anything containing foraged mushrooms to the table for that specific luncheon.

 

[jjleroche]

Yes, this is the main direction in which I can sense a glimmer of a motive. We don't have enough facts to really theorize anything, but if she did not want her ex to be around the children and if this meeting was about the ex seeing more of the children, then I can see how something that was said could make her angry and cause to act irrationally.

But then she must have had a poison at hand for use (for whatever reason). Because had there been any pre-meditation, it just falls apart. How would she get to have more custody of children if she kills the messengers? And why kill the other couple anyways?

Yes, it doesn't seem too realistic to me. JMO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Imagine a scenario where Simon had attended and got severely sick or died. Would we have ever heard about the dehydrator?

 

[jjleroche]

I guess we need to wait until we have all of the facts.


Just some food-for-thought, and I beg your indulgence on this one point as it’s slightly off-topic, but I think estranged husband Simon’s unexplained gastrointestinal complaint might be completely bogus.

According to the many MSM articles written about the case: He made a post about it once on social media. It’s hardly a fact.

Police haven’t mentioned it, have they?

IMHO

I can't recall investigators mentioning it. I think you're spot-on Ellery84. JMO

 

[investikater]

There is a procedure i have learnt and do when identifying mushrooms. I would expect people to do it in full everytime they forage, but I think POSSIBLY people sometimes get a bit lazy and complacent.

It includes taking multiple photos.
If eating there are even more steps, including food handling safety rules (mushrooms get bacteria too), and (especially if eating a species for the first time) doing a 24 hour reaction taste test on each person, and keeping a whole mushroom uncooked as a sample specimen.

As an ALLEDGEDLY experienced forager the poi POSSIBLY might need to explain why she didn't do these things and cant for example hand over the photos or an uncooked whole mushroom. HYPOTHETICALLY that could be a reason to POSSIBLY lie about buying them instead.

Likewise if she did buy them, the person who HYPOTHETICALLY sold them and the person who HYPOTHETICALLY foraged them HYPOTHETICALLY aren't going to be keen to raise their hand.
Financial liability is another HYPOTHETICAL motive to lie.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

“Ian and Heather were some of the best people I’d ever met. They never did anything wrong to me.”

Every time I read "They never did anything wrong to me" my brain automatically wants to ask "who did?"

It's a strange and incongruent remark IMO. Why would anyone imagine that this elder couple would have done her wrong? Also it sounds like a pre-emptive cover up of the fact she may have had grievances against them.

 

[investikater]

Good points.
Tabloid media, who stopped at nothing to caste blame upon her stated that an anonymous source told them that Erin and her family were all avid foragers.
It remains to be seen whether that contained any truth or not.
There are more rumours than facts available .

it depends upon one's choice of sources..

there is no open source credible information suggesting that erin or any of her guests brought anything containing foraged mushrooms to the table for that specific luncheon.

'And her family'
So.... the husband and children ALLEDGEDLY forage too?
MAYBE the in laws as well? Interesting. That's the first time I've heard that.

 

[jjleroche]

She speaks in riddles IMO. Also IMO people who speak in riddles are not telling the truth, they are alluding to things and hoping the listener will fill in gaps and find in their favour when they haven't actually said anything of substance.

I think there might be something a bit more to this but I can't say what as EP is the only named PoI and my speculations would breach T&Cs

Possibly, there are some things in the background which she feels she can't mention as -
1) It's private stuff (not just for her, but for others as well)
and /or
2) It may distress some people (I'm thinking here of the children.)

ICBW, but I get the impression that EP became quite isolated during her marriage, but her in-laws were a bright light for her during that difficult time, and remained a positive part of her life - people whom she really cared about very much.

This is all guesswork on my part, but such a scenario may account for the speaking in riddles. JMO

 

[kittythehare]

Imagine a scenario where Simon had attended and got severely sick or died. Would we have ever heard about the dehydrator?

The results of any analysis on the dehydrator have not been made public and there is a very good chance they will contain nothing at all.
There was no reason to use a dehydrator for the meal she cooked.

 

[Salah11]

The results of any analysis on the dehydrator have not been made public and there is a very good chance they will contain nothing at all.
There was no reason to use a dehydrator for the meal she cooked.

So then why did she get rid of it?

So she was discussing the food hydrator for some reason at the hospital and then she decided to get rid of evidence when her ex husband accused her. Why was she even talking about it unless it was used for prepping in that lunch?

She said she was 'discussing the food hydrator' she used to prepare the meal when her ex-husband asked: 'Is that what you used to poison them?'

In a panic, Erin has admitted that she then dumped the dehydrator at a nearby tip.

Food dehydrators are used to dry out mushrooms before using them in beef wellingtons

Shock twist after mushroom poisoning as woman who cooked meal speaks

The woman who prepared a mushroom meal, which is thought to have caused the deaths of three individuals, says she purchased the mushrooms from both a supermarket and an Asian grocery store and was hospitalised herself after eating the meal.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[kittythehare]

So then why did she get rid of it?

So she was discussing the food hydrator for some reason at the hospital and then she decided to get rid of evidence when her ex husband accused her. Why was she even talking about it unless it was used for prepping in that lunch?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12403745/amp/Erin-Patterson-woman- alr

We have discussed it repeatedly.
She gave her reason.

In the absence of factual information to the contrary, her reasoning is acceptable.

 

[Salah11]

We have discussed it repeatedly.
She gave her reason.

In the absence of factual information to the contrary, her reasoning is acceptable.

Who decides if a excuse is acceptable when people are dead and she has blatantly lied?

She is the only named person of interest in 3 deaths and one who nearly died!

 

[HongKongPhooey]

We have discussed it repeatedly.
She gave her reason.

In the absence of factual information to the contrary, her reasoning is acceptable.

I still cannot fathom why she disposed of it, according to her explanation.

If she had not used it to process something poisonous, why be afraid of losing custody? Just makes no sense to me. What would they do?

But as you quite rightly say, we have discussed it repeatedly.

 

[Neet_Mc]

So I'm a mushroom person and guess what I have never done - eaten foraged mushrooms.

Why? I don't want to eat a mushroom, or feed it to someone I love, and then spend the next 24 hours wracked with anxiety.

I eat mushrooms that I grow myself, or that are Australian FARMED and sold in an Australian supermarket.

I don't get them at markets because at this point I'm unsure what rules they have to follow?
Just a few.months before this i was checking out a local to me grower of exotic mushrooms who sells at markets, and was MORTIFIED to see on their Facebook page, a post about foraging mushrooms while doing delivery runs.
So I did not become a customer.

The main reason for my fear of foraged mushrooms, is that even knowledgable and experienced people get hurt sometimes. Some incidents I recall from over the years:

Party of friends:

The other Death Cap mushroom meal that turned a family dinner toxic

A dinner party for five with a stir fry menu turned toxic for US Customs Service appraiser, John Duncan, and his wife Teresa, with a quirky ingredient saving the host from deadly poisoning.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Professional chef:

Deadly mushrooms cooked by chef for co-workers - BBC News

The death cap mushrooms that killed two people in Australia were prepared by a chef for his co-workers, health officials say.

www.bbc.com

Lifelong forager:

Man dies from eating wild fungi

Man, 82, dies from eating wild mushrooms

www.latimes.com

Mycologist:

Julius Schäffer - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Paxillus involutus - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

^ That's an interesting one because it was considered edible for a long time. Reactions vary by dose and by individual maybe?

I've heard a few people say things like 'the poi was an experienced forager so how could it be an accident?'
I think it could be an accident.
I think a forager for a market could accidentally sell them too.

Yet EP’s own statement claims she bought two types of mushrooms from two different stores. She did not include any mushrooms foraged by her or anyone else into the food she prepared.
Given the difficulty of correctly identifying toxic mushrooms, even for experienced foragers, had EP said from the outset that the dish included foraged mushrooms, this whole investigation would not have peaked the interest as it has.

 

[Neet_Mc]

“Ian and Heather were some of the best people I’d ever met. They never did anything wrong to me.”

Every time I read "They never did anything wrong to me" my brain automatically wants to ask "who did?"

So, by her own omission, GP, DP and SP do not fall under that category!