Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #5 *Arrest*

[al66pine]

Does a Mushroom-Identification App Make Foraging Safe?

In a 2023 scientific article* specific to Victoria, authors** reviewed three M-I apps & found:
--- accurate identification rates of 49%, 33%, and 40% for 78 species of mushrooms.
Sooo the best of three apps equates to a COIN FLIP?

Here's the kicker re Amanita phalloides, specifically.
Accurate identification rates of 67%, 60%, and 27% re specimens of Amanita phalloides.
Okay, better results from two of the apps, but those percentages leave room for a lot of possible error.
Fatal error.

Conclusion from the article:
"Mushroom identification applications may be useful future tools to assist clinical toxicologists and the general public in the accurate identification of mushrooms species but, at present, are not reliable enough to exclude exposure to potentially poisonous mushrooms when used alone."

Article says, imo, okay to use an M-I app to try to identify mushrooms in the wild for sake of curiousity, but for crying out loud, DON'T USE an M-I app alone to decide whether you will EAT them.

Just my interp; ICBW. Maybe someone else who reads the abstract or full article will interp differently and post about it.

Anyone? Please. TiA.
_______________
* "A comparison of the accuracy of mushroom identification applications using digital photographs
A comparison of the accuracy of mushroom identification applications using digital photographs - PubMed"

** Authors & Affiliations:
Sarah E Hodgson 1 2, Christine McKenzie 1, Tom W May 3, Shaun L Greene 1 2
1 Victorian Poisons Information Centre, Austin Health, Melbourne, Australia.
2 Emergency Department, Austin Health, Melbourne, Australia.
3 Royal Botanic Gardens Victoria, Melbourne, Australia.

(BTW, I posted about this earlier)

Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #5

https://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/two-dead-suspected-poisoning-053100419.html One man still fighting for life. Thread #1 Thread #2 Thread #3 Thread #4

www.websleuths.com

and

Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #5 *Arrest*

https://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/two-dead-suspected-poisoning-053100419.html One man still fighting for life. Thread #1 Thread #2 Thread #3 Thread #4

www.websleuths.com

 

[al66pine]

Can foragers depend on Mushroom-Identifying apps to help them make the right choices?

A user may use app (to try) to select:
--- edible/safe mushrooms.
OR
--- toxic mushrooms, likely to be fatal.

Seems even experienced mushroom foragers w one or more M-I apps and a shelf full of mushroom books may not pick the category of mushrooms they actually want.

Did EP's Beef Wellingon contain mushrooms she had foraged? IDK.

 

[al66pine]

Yeah it’s like the people who commit these types of horrific crimes are working from a different frame of reference to the average person who is not committing major crimes and/or hurting people.
I don’t have the right language to really articulate this as I’m not a criminologist etc.

@Ellery84
You're not a criminologist? Perfectly alright, not many posters here are.
You're doing fine. Keep on posting.

 

[Lady Bug]

But she had the leftovers, which would presumably prove her innocence. And the dehydrator would add to that exculpatory evidence . So dumping it makes no sense. JMO

If poisonous mushrooms are not found to be in the leftovers, that doesn't prove her innocence, it only proves the poisonous mushrooms weren't in the beef wellington.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think even if they find there were no mushrooms in the dehydrater, it doesn't prove or disprove her innocence.

Getting rid of the dehydrater may be due to something else having been in it and not anything to do with the deaths.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

And far apart from seeing her as a confident person, I see a person that has been demoralised, and beaten down by life.

One that seems isolated and devoid of love and friendship and a kind word.

She was me

 

[Lady Bug]

I don't think those words could be easily verified by SP or the children. Nor disputed by them.

SP didn't live there and would have no way of knowing when or if she dumped the dehydrator.

The kids probably took no notice either way. I'd imagine it was usually kept in a pantry or cabinet shelf somewhere. If she dumped it while they weren't looking they'd have no idea. JMO

True, but all three can testify and give context to the conversation which took place. Possibly within the conversation were details which might uncover when the dumping occurred - before or after the conversation.

Why was the dehydrator being discussed with the children at the hospital? That's the answer we need.

 

[Charlot123]

Can foragers depend on Mushroom-Identifying apps to help them make the right choices?

A user may use app (to try) to select:
--- edible/safe mushrooms.
OR
--- toxic mushrooms, likely to be fatal.

Seems even experienced mushroom foragers w one or more M-I apps and a shelf full of mushroom books may not pick the category of mushrooms they actually want.

Did EP's Beef Wellingon contain mushrooms she had foraged? IDK.

What foragers pick is what they run into. They are looking for Boletus and run into Russulas. But at least both are edible.

I signed up to several foragers groups and instantly noticed:

- there is a lot of envy among foragers
- probably no one mentions the places they really forage in
- all groups ask to post the photo from all angles, and the trees, too; most often, there is just one angle
- often, by the time the foragers receive their answer, they've already eaten the mushroom

However, since 90% of deaths from foraged mushrooms fall on death caps, maybe sorting according to the principle "can it be a death cap?" is a good way to start

 

[katydid23]

True, but all three can testify and give context to the conversation which took place. Possibly within the conversation were details which might uncover when the dumping occurred - before or after the conversation.

Why was the dehydrator being discussed with the children at the hospital? That's the answer we need.

I agree---why would anyone be talking about the dehydrator with their kids, while in the hospital with severely ill grandparents. It's baffling.

 

[jjleroche]

And far apart from seeing her as a confident person, I see a person that has been demoralised, and beaten down by life.

One that seems isolated and devoid of love and friendship and a kind word.

She was me

Very thoughtful and brave post TootsieFootsie.

I agree completely with what you see.

 

[katydid23]

If poisonous mushrooms are not found to be in the leftovers, that doesn't prove her innocence, it only proves the poisonous mushrooms weren't in the beef wellington.

It doesn't even prove that the toxic mushrooms weren't served in Beef Wellington---only proves toxins weren't in the alleged 'leftovers' given to the investigators.

There may have been two different wellingtons made that day, OR maybe a toxic gravy was served with the meal.

 

[katydid23]

Here is what makes me so suspicious of EP. There were EIGHT potential poisoning victims at her home that day.

The 4 victims who became ill, and the 4 that didn't-----which were EP, her 2 kids and their big Labrador.

I've had a lot of Labradors and German Shepherds over the years. They LOVE them some beef. Anytime I've ever cooked a big beef dinner, my dogs were given yummy scraps.

Hard for me to believe that after 7 people ate servings of that big beef wellington, there were NO scraps given to that big ol Lab? She scraped all the plates right into the trash leaving none for the doggie? My dog would have been intently staring through the back of my head, waiting for some beef scraps.

8 mouths were potential poison victims that day---but only the 4 guests were poisoned . The other 4 were unscathed. I find that highly suspicious.

 

[Oona]

I agree---why would anyone be talking about the dehydrator with their kids, while in the hospital with severely ill grandparents. It's baffling.

One possibility is that the children saw it in her car and were asking why it was in there. It is possible that the children’s questions did not have any connection with the lunch. She may have dropped them to the cinema on the Saturday morning and headed to the tip afterward. Or the children may have seen her load it into the car to take to the tip on the Sunday…..before they ate the leftovers and went to the hospital to be checked out.

 

[Lady Bug]

And far apart from seeing her as a confident person, I see a person that has been demoralised, and beaten down by life.

One that seems isolated and devoid of love and friendship and a kind word.

She was me

I see what you see TootsieFootsie, it's there

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think even if they find there were no mushrooms in the dehydrater, it doesn't prove or disprove her innocence.

Getting rid of the dehydrater may be due to something else having been in it and not anything to do with the deaths.

Should be dehydrator.
This daylight saving has already wiped me out to the point I can't spell

 

[Charlot123]

Here is what makes me so suspicious of EP. There were EIGHT potential poisoning victims at her home that day.

The 4 victims who became ill, and the 4 that didn't-----which were EP, her 2 kids and their big Labrador.

I've had a lot of Labradors and German Shepherds over the years. They LOVE them some beef. Anytime I've ever cooked a big beef dinner, my dogs were given yummy scraps.

Hard for me to believe that after 7 people ate servings of that big beef wellington, there were NO scraps given to that big ol Lab? She scraped all the plates right into the trash leaving none for the doggie? My dog would have been intently staring through the back of my head, waiting for some beef scraps.

8 mouths were potential poison victims that day---but only the 4 guests were poisoned . The other 4 were unscathed. I find that highly suspicious.

OMG, this is brilliant.

Labs and their attitude to food. In fact, the one living across the street from us once even ate some wild mushrooms and was sick afterwards. We were asked not to feed him because being a lab says it all. There is no good or bad food for labs. The one we know and love is a phlegmatic animal, and yet, there is a huge “rap sheet” for him, and not only about food. But, you are so right.

 

[Ellery84]

And far apart from seeing her as a confident person, I see a person that has been demoralised, and beaten down by life.

One that seems isolated and devoid of love and friendship and a kind word.

She was me

TF:
I get it, you empathise with the person you think she is.

I hope she is who you think she is and not someone else entirely, TF.

I would be really pleased if she turned out to be innocent.

 

[Ellery84]

@Ellery84
You're not a criminologist? Perfectly alright, not many posters here are.
You're doing fine. Keep on posting.

Thanks @al66pine , you’re so kind.

<modsnip - commenting on moderation>

 

[kittythehare]

I wonder why she was discussing the dehydrator with her children at the hospital, if she had not yet thrown it out.

We don't have that context, it is not necessarily nefarious and at this stage it is not necessarily evidence either.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Here is what makes me so suspicious of EP. There were EIGHT potential poisoning victims at her home that day.

The 4 victims who became ill, and the 4 that didn't-----which were EP, her 2 kids and their big Labrador.

I've had a lot of Labradors and German Shepherds over the years. They LOVE them some beef. Anytime I've ever cooked a big beef dinner, my dogs were given yummy scraps.

Hard for me to believe that after 7 people ate servings of that big beef wellington, there were NO scraps given to that big ol Lab? She scraped all the plates right into the trash leaving none for the doggie? My dog would have been intently staring through the back of my head, waiting for some beef scraps.

8 mouths were potential poison victims that day---but only the 4 guests were poisoned . The other 4 were unscathed. I find that highly suspicious.

*Off topic a bit but I had just came across this article:

More commonly referred to as death cap mushrooms, they are extremely poisonous, causing liver and kidney damage almost immediately, and leading to death in 80% of dogs that eat them.

“We didn’t even notice they were growing,” said owner Eleanor Gardner of the mushrooms.

“We do now, though. Not one goes by that we don’t pick up right away.”

UCD: Mushroom poisoning has unreported consequence for dog

Following a health scare last fall, it was presumed that Sadie, a 10-year-old black Labrador retriever, had eaten Amanita phalloides fungus growing in her family’s yard.More commonly referred to as

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