Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #5 *Arrest*

[katydid23]

She could have trimmed the beef and given scraps to the dog before other ingredients were added.

Possibly, but if she gives her dogs scraps, why wouldn't she give him more after the plates were taken from the table? I'd assume that those plates all had pieces of meat left behind. If she gave her dog scraps before the Wellington was prepared, why wouldn't she save more for him after the guests finished their plates?

I just find it very odd. Not only did she and both children escape being poisoned, but so did the family dog. But everyone else was seriously ill, 3 ill enough to die from it.

 

[Ellery84]

I just find it very odd. Not only did she and both children escape being poisoned, but so did the family dog. But everyone else was seriously ill, 3 ill enough to die from it.

Well maybe it’s not so odd. Erin Patterson is a person of interest in a homicide investigation. Maybe she murdered them? Maybe she didn’t.

Let’s wait and see what LE come back with and if they lay charges.

 

[investikater]

I'd assume that those plates all had pieces of meat left behind.

Reminds me of this ad:

Maybe she really is a good cook?

 

[Shadow@light]

Not to worry. It is a crime discussion board. People's opinions always vary. Any one of us could be right or could be wrong.

We are all measuring actions in conjunction with what happened, from our own perspectives from life, or other crimes we've followed, or whatever.

I personally am not big on measuring a person's verbal reactions in front of a camera because none of us know how we would act with TV cameras and reporters in front of our faces. But I am interested in their actions.

So true South Aussie, people react in various ways some can look so Guilty. Even when they are not when applied under pressure. Myself if applied in this situation, I would look ,"A Deer Caught In The Headlights Pose and my voice would pitch like Alvin The Chipmonk , so would I be guilty or not to people watching me?
A person does not have to be placed in such situation facing the Media as suspect in a crime with TV Camera Reporters etc it is interesting to learn about people can judge others as I found out years ago. I confess, did some extra work one show, Stingers, regarding Serial Killer Episode the script was wrote during filming so cast and crew could try to work out who was the Culprit before the last day of shooting, bets were taken near the end of the shoot, I was stunned to find out that I was earmarked as the Killer not by my voice(Not Used)( Thank Heavens for Everyone) but by my looks. Young , female, kind of person you would turn to if you were in trouble.
IMO, EP is being judged by her looks as well as her interview under pressure. But also over the years, her and the locals have misjudged each other over time.

One thing I was taught over the years people who were Visual Impaired, was close your eyes and listen the people being interviewed you can hear the change in voice tone, false or true. I ask about EP Interveiw, my friend, being visually Impaired since birth, she replied she could not judgeor give opinion due to the position EP, the postition, pressure and stress EP was in when the interveiw was done.

 

[investikater]

That was posted in a previous thread but it was awhile ago and I'm sure some people missed it, can't hurt posting it again it was very interesting.

Thank you. Ok here it is again:

I tend towards trusting these guys and their analyses. What do you all think of them?

My favorite part of this one is at 1:16:45 where Mark Bowden talks about cooking Beef Wellington. A highlight:

If you'd made beef wellington and you are innocent, you're gone go: 'I made beef wellington, that's how much I loved these people.'

Watching it again I notice he says that you would need to make 2 for a dinner party, which is something several websleuthers have HYPOTHESISED MAY have happened.

Very interesting.

I'm going to have to try making one now. (Is that macabre?) With FARMED Australian mushrooms!

P.s. the thumbnail is a bit mean if she is innocent, but then again their whole analysis is worse than mean is she is innocent!

 

[Shadow@light]

one DUI 20 years ago when she was 29, single and not a mother is not a history of bad choices.
It was a single event and unconnected to the wild accusations being levelled at her in 2023.

True kittythehare, people still do things for whatever reasons, unexpected at all ages.
The Victoria Hotel in Melbourne, Australia, over twenty-two years ago any Costume or Science Fiction Convention or Parties being held there after the Last Science Fiction Convention held at the Victoria Hotel when two persons abbsailled down the front of the Hotel dressed as Batman and Robin, both men were in their 30's.
Even the Police were called to another hotel, over twenty years ago by a group of women ages 20s or30's or had decided to do spur of the moment a bit of fun, after a bit of drinking decided to join a friends room(Have a Costume Preperations down the hallway dressed as Star Trek Betazoids, (In defence they wearing Body Stockings with pastiles or light coloured corsets) thought the coast was clear.
In the 1990's there were many Unemployed People / Students who did cash in hand jobs, small pay to pay bills, food Christmas etc were caught paid the price, some now are lawyers, work in a professional industry.

Did they do it again, no. Looking back did they see it was a mistake. Yes. Just like Erin.
As I was taught, you make the mistake one you don't repeat it
But also like Erin, they would hated it being put in the Media, for no need for it just hype.

I wonder IMOO, if this DUI had been found out, over the years been used against Erin it would make he avoid and mistrust people.

 

[Oona]

Thank you. Ok here it is again:

I tend towards trusting these guys and their analyses. What do you all think of them?

My favorite part of this one is at 1:16:45 where Mark Bowden talks about cooking Beef Wellington. A highlight:

Watching it again I notice he says that you would need to make 2 for a dinner party, which is something several websleuthers have HYPOTHESISED MAY have happened.

Very interesting.

I'm going to have to try making one now. (Is that macabre?) With FARMED Australian mushrooms!

P.s. the thumbnail is a bit mean if she is innocent, but then again their whole analysis is worse than mean is she is innocent!

Thanks for sharing that video. I have to agree with the panel that some of her answers did sound a bit rehearsed and egocentric.

When I try to imagine being in that situation, with the media asking questions about the meal, I can’t understand why one wouldn’t be wanting to warn the public about the risk of poisoning from mushrooms bought at the shops. Instead of “I can’t fathom…or it’s unbelievable what has happened….” I’d be saying, “don’t buy any mushrooms until we know they are safe so your loved ones don’t get sick or die”.

It is on that basis that I believe she foraged the mushrooms…..oh and the dumped dehydrator!

 

[MsMarple]

Very long DMA article quoting a retired Victoria homicide detective who outlined how the investigation will likely proceed. Note that he’s not working the case so just giving his opinion based on his experience.

He didn’t say much more than what we’ve already been discussing but IMO it was helpful to see the investigation laid out point by point. He also said it could take a year or more, depending on the results of each facet of the investigation.

Some excerpts:

He said that if police had established the deaths' 'causation' - as Mr Silvester claims but Victoria Police has yet to confirm - detectives then have five vital areas of investigation to work through before any charges might be laid.
…
'Pastor Wilkinson can say if the guests were invited over to (Erin Patterson's) house, say, every Sunday, every fortnight or month, or if they hadn't been invited over previously.

'As investigators, we don't prove innocence or guilt, we present fact that is either inculpatory or exculpatory (tending to incriminate, or tending to clear guilt).
…
'Pastor Wilkinson could describe how the lunch was served, if he had any knowledge how it was prepared, whether it was prepared at Ms Patterson's house or elsewhere, and if there was any discussion of mushrooms and foraging.
…
Mr Bezzina said detectives would question if there was somebody else involved - another person who might have prepared the meal and given it to Ms Patterson who unknowingly served it, and if they had a motive or reason to harm the lunch guests.
…
'You need to find out how the (Death Cap mushrooms) came to being cooked in the meal, but it will be important to take samples from kitchen surfaces and cooking utensils to prove beyond doubt they were there, should this go to court,' Mr Bezzina said.
…
Any detectives will be looking to confirm or dismantle Ms Patterson's story - did she lie, or is she another victim of a terrible tragedy?

Mr Bezzina said that police would be checking hospital records to corroborate Ms Patterson's reported stay following the lunch, her treatment and the results of any tests she might have had.

He said because Ms Patterson has stated that she bought button mushrooms at a supermarket and other mushrooms at an 'Asian grocery store', the story needed police investigation to confirm or pull apart.
…
'The investigators would want her to say what area she believed the Asian shop was in, then get CCTV in the time-frames she went there.

'They would be looking potentially through a whole week's worth of CCTV footage from the Asian shop and from the supermarket when she bought the other mushrooms, to see if her true movements back up her statement.
…
Interviewing Ms Patterson's ex-husband and their two children is also a central part of the police probe.

'They will be looking at the whole domestic situation of family,' Mr Bezzina said.
…
Mr Bezzina said the other prospect was a coronial inquest.

'There are no rules of evidence at an inquest, so while it might be long, protracted and complex we could eventually get to the bottom of why these people died,' he said.

The five next moves cops will take in deadly mushroom lunch probe

A former leading homicide cop has revealed the next moves investigators will take in probing the fatal mushroom lunch that killed three people in regional Victoria

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[ch_13]

Easy or Difficult to Identify Death Caps? Who to Believe?

Three Mushroom - Identifying smart phone apps FAILED to identify Amanita phalloides in 33%, and 40%, and 73% of the photos submitted, IIUC,* per linked article in a medical journal.

Conclusion from the article:
"Mushroom identification applications... at present, are not reliable enough to exclude exposure to potentially poisonous mushrooms when used alone."
IOW, don't depend on apps alone to decide whether to eat, imo.

Even if a forager uses all three apps simultaneously to try to identify mushrooms, there's still a significant chance of error. Fatal error.

Maybe extensive, intensive foraging experience over the years in a given geographical area trumps these apps. IDK. Admittedly I'm assuming that these apps are/should be more accurate than human memory often is.

But w these failure rates in three separate apps, per this source, imo Death Caps are DIFFICULT to identify. YMMV.

__________________________________________
The Boring Bits Supporting ^

SOURCE
"A comparison of the accuracy of mushroom identification applications using digital photographs"

A comparison of the accuracy of mushroom identification applications using digital photographs - PubMed

Mushroom identification applications may be useful future tools to assist clinical toxicologists and the general public in the accurate identification of mushrooms species but, at present, are not reliable enough to exclude exposure to potentially poisonous mushrooms when used alone.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

WHO wrote article & calculated failure rates?
Three people affiliated w-
* Victoria's Poisons Information Centre,
* Emergency Dept in Austin Health, the hospital which provides the "only Victorian-wide service for... liver transplant[6] and is the state referral centre for toxicology."
* Royal Botanic Gardens Victoria.
Imo, higher credentials than some "experts" quoted in MSM articles & repeated in thread.

WHERE did they say it?
In a scientific medical journal, Clinical Toxicology, published in Mar. 2023 and e-published in pubmed.com .

WHEN did they collect data?
2020-2021. IOW, not stale data, imo.

WHICH mushroom -identification apps did they review?
See link, as this post is too long. Again.

I think the issue over whether it's easy or difficult to identify death caps is really about the experience of the forager. To an experienced forager it should be obvious, but a neophyte can get tripped up. It can't be that difficult if you have the right expertise. After all, people go out and pick mushrooms all the time without any negative consequences. Until this event, it seems that most Amanita poisonings were due to someone coming from abroad and not realizing that the change in geography meant that there existed fungi in Australia that looked similar to ones back home but were actually different species.

I'm reminded of the problems some people have identifying parsley vs coriander. (We call it cilantro in the U.S.) To the experienced cook, the leaves below look nothing alike. But more than one novice has been known to inadvertently use the wrong herb and screw up their dish.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Thank you. Ok here it is again:

I tend towards trusting these guys and their analyses. What do you all think of them?

My favorite part of this one is at 1:16:45 where Mark Bowden talks about cooking Beef Wellington. A highlight:

Watching it again I notice he says that you would need to make 2 for a dinner party, which is something several websleuthers have HYPOTHESISED MAY have happened.

Very interesting.

I'm going to have to try making one now. (Is that macabre?) With FARMED Australian mushrooms!

P.s. the thumbnail is a bit mean if she is innocent, but then again their whole analysis is worse than mean is she is innocent!

I've never been convinced that the DC mushrooms were actually in the Beef Wellington... but perhaps she did make two. Maybe when she sliced them up she did it in a way that looked natural - four slices from the first (poisoned one) served to the guests then three slices plated up from the second one for herself and the two children with a bit left over.

 

[ch_13]

Watching it again I notice he says that you would need to make 2 for a dinner party, which is something several websleuthers have HYPOTHESISED MAY have happened.

Hmm, I don't know if she made two or not, but the YouTuber is incorrect. You do not need to make two for a dinner party.

A full beef tenderloin is an enormous cut of meat that can weigh something like eight pounds. Usually, you get a trimmed down center cut of about 2 1/2 to 3 lbs. That alone would be enough to serve 10 or more people. The fact that it can serve a crowd is what makes it an impressive presentation for a dinner party. (And also what makes it such a weird luncheon dish for a group of five.)

I didn't watch the video but maybe the YouTuber confused a beef tenderloin with a pork tenderloin, which is a much smaller cut of meat that can usually serves 2-3 people.


Edit - Okay, I just watched that section of the video. I don't know what he's referring to, when he says that you'd make two because they'd be a lot of people around and they'd need extras. And he claims to have studied molecular gastronomy at Harvard. Ha! What a pretentious jerk. Maybe he should consider some extension cooking classes at his local community college instead.

 

[DeDee]

Gordon Ramsay watches a student in their dorm room prepare Beef Wellington. TT videos are quick but actually preparing the BW in our homes takes far more time. How many would this BW feed?

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7282077893751049505

 

[kittythehare]

Gordon Ramsay watches a student in their dorm room prepare Beef Wellington. TT videos are quick but actually preparing the BW in our homes takes far more time. How many would this BW feed?

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7282077893751049505

Probably only 2 comfortably..
I'd use a much bigger chunk of beef for more guests though.
That was well done.. mostly it;#'s just gritty bits and pastry around a good cut of beef and it's invariably dry, but my hands are not skilled and i prefer mushy things like stew...

 

[JBowie]

It was the first public appearance by the Korumburra Baptist pastor since he was released from the Austin Hospital on September 22 after spending weeks fighting for life in an induced coma.

. . .

Simon Patterson, Erin’s estranged husband and Gail and Don’s son, arrived at the memorial shortly after Wilkinson, walking up to the entrance alone and stopping to greet a woman.

. . .

Wilkinson’s recovery has been hailed a miracle by locals in the small South Gippsland town, who said the community had been praying on their knees since the well-regarded pastor fell ill.

. . .

Police have not provided any updates on the case since an initial press conference in August, where they named Erin Patterson as the main suspect in the investigation.

Mushroom poisoning survivor farewells wife at community service

Days after being released from hospital, pastor Ian Wilkinson looked frail and used a walking frame to enter the memorial service for wife Heather, who has been remembered as a community stalwart.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Oona]

Hmm, I don't know if she made two or not, but the YouTuber is incorrect. You do not need to make two for a dinner party.

A full beef tenderloin is an enormous cut of meat that can weigh something like eight pounds. Usually, you get a trimmed down center cut of about 2 1/2 to 3 lbs. That alone would be enough to serve 10 or more people. The fact that it can serve a crowd is what makes it an impressive presentation for a dinner party. (And also what makes it such a weird luncheon dish for a group of five.)

I didn't watch the video but maybe the YouTuber confused a beef tenderloin with a pork tenderloin, which is a much smaller cut of meat that can usually serves 2-3 people.


Edit - Okay, I just watched that section of the video. I don't know what he's referring to, when he says that you'd make two because they'd be a lot of people around and they'd need extras. And he claims to have studied molecular gastronomy at Harvard. Ha! What a pretentious jerk. Maybe he should consider some extension cooking classes at his local community college instead.

A quick web search of beef Wellington recipes indicates that typically beef wellingtons provide between 4 and 8 servings.

To account for EP’s version of events, her beef Wellington would have needed to be a minimum of 8 servings. (4 for the guests, 1 for her, 2 for children as leftovers and 1 for the left over slice submitted for testing by authorities).

I don’t think it would be unusual to make two beef wellingtons, some people like a second serving and she was originally expecting her ex to be joining them. Generally I think most people make more food than needed for a special meal.

 

[investikater]

Hmm, I don't know if she made two or not, but the YouTuber is incorrect. You do not need to make two for a dinner party.

A full beef tenderloin is an enormous cut of meat that can weigh something like eight pounds. Usually, you get a trimmed down center cut of about 2 1/2 to 3 lbs. That alone would be enough to serve 10 or more people. The fact that it can serve a crowd is what makes it an impressive presentation for a dinner party. (And also what makes it such a weird luncheon dish for a group of five.)

I didn't watch the video but maybe the YouTuber confused a beef tenderloin with a pork tenderloin, which is a much smaller cut of meat that can usually serves 2-3 people.


Edit - Okay, I just watched that section of the video. I don't know what he's referring to, when he says that you'd make two because they'd be a lot of people around and they'd need extras. And he claims to have studied molecular gastronomy at Harvard. Ha! What a pretentious jerk. Maybe he should consider some extension cooking classes at his local community college instead.

Maybe he was just being facetious then? but this one is tiny:

Gordon Ramsay watches a student in their dorm room prepare Beef Wellington. TT videos are quick but actually preparing the BW in our homes takes far more time. How many would this BW feed?

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7282077893751049505

I could probably manage to eat that one by myself if I really tried

The recipes I see on Google max out at 2 pounds.

Maybe it is you who are mistaken?

 

[ch_13]

Maybe he was just being facetious then? but this one is tiny:



I could probably manage to eat that one by myself if I really tried

The recipes I see on Google max out at 2 pounds.

Maybe it is you who are mistaken?

Oh, of course. You can always trim the roast down and make a small one if you want. Just like you can make a mini-quiche or a personal-sized pizza.

My point was just that a beef tenderloin is a huge chunk of meat that you have to trim down to the appropriate size. So you don't need to make two, you would just use a larger cut. A molecular gastronomist from Harvard should know that.

And also keep in mind because of the puff pastry dough, the duxelles, prosciutto and all the other ingredients that a portion of Beef Wellington is incredibly filling. So 2 lbs of beef will feed a lot of people. For example, here's a recipe from Food & Wine that calls for a 2 1/2 lb roast and says it serves 12.

Beef Wellington

This sophisticated beef Wellington recipe features buttery puff pastry filled with a deeply flavorful diced mushrooms mixture and beef tenderloins. It's an unforgettable centerpiece to any feast.

www.foodandwine.com

Edit - I guess my quibble with the video is that he bragged about his expertise and then said something that's patently wrong. It's like if EP had served pizza with mushrooms on top, and then he claimed, "Clearly she made two pizzas because it's impossible to feed five people with just one pizza."

I don't want to make too much of it, but I feel it was just a silly statement.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Hmm, I don't know if she made two or not, but the YouTuber is incorrect. You do not need to make two for a dinner party.

A full beef tenderloin is an enormous cut of meat that can weigh something like eight pounds. Usually, you get a trimmed down center cut of about 2 1/2 to 3 lbs. That alone would be enough to serve 10 or more people. The fact that it can serve a crowd is what makes it an impressive presentation for a dinner party. (And also what makes it such a weird luncheon dish for a group of five.)

I didn't watch the video but maybe the YouTuber confused a beef tenderloin with a pork tenderloin, which is a much smaller cut of meat that can usually serves 2-3 people.


Edit - Okay, I just watched that section of the video. I don't know what he's referring to, when he says that you'd make two because they'd be a lot of people around and they'd need extras. And he claims to have studied molecular gastronomy at Harvard. Ha! What a pretentious jerk. Maybe he should consider some extension cooking classes at his local community college instead.

It prob wasn’t in the main dish … more likely the gravy much less cross contamination and easier disposal of smaller dishes and utensils. She made a nice dry BF which required gravy. (She had hers dry …)

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Heartbreaking scenes as wife farewelled

Heather Wilkinson was one of three people who died after consuming a meal, which is believed to have contained death cap mushrooms, at a family gathering.

au.news.yahoo.com

Ms Wilkinson’s husband, local pastor Ian Wilkinson, 68, arrived an hour early at the service, using a walking frame for assistance.

He wore a black face mask, black suit and navy tie.

 

[kittythehare]

Heartbreaking scenes as wife farewelled

Heather Wilkinson was one of three people who died after consuming a meal, which is believed to have contained death cap mushrooms, at a family gathering.

au.news.yahoo.com

Ms Wilkinson’s husband, local pastor Ian Wilkinson, 68, arrived an hour early at the service, using a walking frame for assistance.

He wore a black face mask, black suit and navy tie.

Heartbreaking.
I'm hoping he makes a full recovery but I think it will take quite a long time..
He seems to be doing very well following his ordeal and ventilation which wreaks havoc with muscles etc..

I do wish the media had stayed away from this, most personal event.

They mentioned Erin Patterson several times though she wasn't even there.
Why?
Do they need to anchor their invasive articles and photographs in sensationalism??

They simply do not know where to stop or when to stop.
They had no right to photograph him.

jMO